NBC Washington - Arrest of Man In Wheelchair Raises Concerns

[Teller]

Yes.

Ridiculous.

I hope you live by what you preach. I'm on your way to your house to punk-slap you. Remember your own rules!

[Destino]

So you want your police officers to step back three feet for a couple of seconds after they are assaulted, so that they can calmly re-attempt to mitigate the threat?

:ols:

Why would a police officer handle every situation he encounters the same way? I would think the unique details of a situation would factor in. Should a person handle an "assault" from a small child the same way they would from a man in his mid 20s in good condition? Of course not. The person in this case was drunk and in a wheel chair. It isn't unreasonable to demand that factor into decision making.

Unless of course the person making the decisions is dumb. In which case too many things in brain make angry. I hurt now and make brain quiet again.

[Dan T.]

Ridiculous.

I hope you live by what you preach. I'm on your way to your house to punk-slap you. Remember your own rules!

The. Guy. Was. In. A. Wheelchair.

Why would a police officer handle every situation he encounters the same way? I would think the unique details of a situation would factor in. Should a person handle an "assault" from a small child the same way they would from a man in his mid 20s in good condition? Of course not. The person in this case was drunk and in a wheel chair. It isn't unreasonable to demand that factor into decision making.

Unless of course the person making the decisions is dumb. In which case too many things in brain make angry. I hurt now and make brain quiet again.

Thank you.

[Mooney]

Force of the punch makes no matter. He physically assaulted police officer by punching him in the face. Like I said, it was a reaction of being punched that immediately results in suspect going down. That was reaction, not stop to think about it. This guy was being charged with PI, if he doesn't punch the cop, nothing happens. Think about that. He punched a police officer. These guys are trained and trained and trained on how to react to this situation. They are taught to do exactly as they did. Unfortunately, this guy was disabled and the takedown force met very little resistance. All that leads to face plant. No criminal misconduct on the officers part, and they handled themselves quite well after the fact.

You're stretching the definition of physical assault if you see his hand motion as a punch....or as a threat to those officers safety. There was absolutely no need for the 2 of them to bodyslam that disabled veteran face-first into the pavement.

[Titaw]

Why would a police officer handle every situation he encounters the same way? I would think the unique details of a situation would factor in. Should a person handle an "assault" from a small child the same way they would from a man in his mid 20s in good condition? Of course not. The person in this case was drunk and in a wheel chair. It isn't unreasonable to demand that factor into decision making.

Unless of course the person making the decisions is dumb. In which case too many things in brain make angry. I hurt now and make brain quiet again.

#1 The man was in a motorized wheelchair but was not confined to it, he can stand and support his own weight, it is easier for him to get around in the wheel chair. He was placed under arrest in a forceful manner because HE RESISTED. You have no idea how long this encounter had been going on.

This is where I have problems with people calling excessive force, the officers probably asked the guy to throw away his booze and move along, the individual probably started spouting off at the mouth, the officers probably gave him numerous verbal warnings, at which time attention was drawn to the situation, camera clicks on, catches the tail end of the arrest.

Here's the deal if you listen to police and you respect their authority you won't get a baton shampoo, face planted into the sidewalk, or shot. It really is that easy.

You're stretching the definition of physical assault if you see his hand motion as a punch....or as a threat to those officers safety. There was absolutely no need for the 2 of them to bodyslam that disabled veteran face-first into the pavement.

#1 you don't know how long the man had been belligerent.

#2 The individual struck the officer in the face. At that point he poses a direct threat to the well being of the officers and those around him. You have no idea if individual has a weapon on him or not but you do know he is willing to resist at any means necessary. Mitigate the threat and lower the force immediately.

#3 This is truly irrelevant but when did the individual become a veteran? I have not read this yet. The only thing I have seen is that he was homeless with a disability.

[RedskinsTime]

Shocker. The video starts right before the takedown happens.

Just like all these "brutality" videos, we don't see anything that leads up to the arrest.

[Teller]

The. Guy. Was. In. A. Wheelchair.

So if you're in a wheelchair, you can punch a cop. Got it.

Feel free to have a seat. I'll be there in ten.

Also, NBC4 reported that dude had a .30 BAC. That is LIT.

[RedskinsTime]

Note to self: next time I get drunk and act like an ass, make sure I'm sitting in a wheelchair

[Teller]

Note to self: next time I get drunk and act like an ass, make sure I'm sitting in a wheelchair

Right?

Also, it appears to be an electric wheelchair, which means it's motorized....which in turn means he was DUI on the sidewalk.

[SC_RedskinsFan]

#3 This is truly irrelevant but when did the individual become a veteran? I have not read this yet. The only thing I have seen is that he was homeless with a disability.

I'll add to this, it does not make a **** if he was a veteran or not. You do not get special rights because you were in the military, or treated differently especially if you hit a cop in the face.

[Enzo]

I just watched the video & to me it looks like they took the man out of his wheel chair to cuff him then they all fell to the ground. The 2 cops don't look like they are in control of their fall like a normal take down of a suspect.

[DeaconBlue]

Am I the only here that finds the concept of attempting to stand up someone who's in a WHEELCHAIR to be an act of idiocy in and of itself?

[Dan T.]

So if you're in a wheelchair, you can punch a cop. Got it.

Feel free to have a seat. I'll be there in ten.

Also, NBC4 reported that dude had a .30 BAC. That is LIT.

The guy deserved to be arrested. He did not deserve to be driven face first onto the sidewalk.

[Mooney]

The individual struck the officer in the face. At that point he poses a direct threat to the well being of the officers and those around him. You have no idea if individual has a weapon on him or not but you do know he is willing to resist at any means necessary. Mitigate the threat and lower the force immediately.

Surprised a weapon wasn't produced. Good thing the cameras were rolling.

[Tulane Skins Fan]

A) I'm not sure that was THAT bad.

EB from the junks is insane saying there is no question that was not excessive force. Is a close call. The guy did not appear to be resisting much at all, certainly not to the point he needed to be thrown down like that. Then again, he had to be arrested and getting arrested sucked. But EB is insane (for anyone who listens).

[Dan T.]

I just watched the video & to me it looks like they took the man out of his wheel chair to cuff him then they all fell to the ground. The 2 cops don't look like they are in control of their fall like a normal take down of a suspect.

Watch the officer on the left. He sticks out his right leg in order to take down the suspect.

[RonArtest15]

I just watched the vid again....the officer TRIPPED the man. If he's in a wheelchair for a reason, and folks are trying to get him to stand up....why is it out of the realm of possibility that his arms flailed? I see NO reason for the police to react the way they did....no matter how drunk the guy was.

[No_Pressure]

Its funny hearing cops or people who sympathize with the police defending instances where the police did something wrong and over the top. Its always the same. Innocuous comments from a drunk man become extremely inflammatory belligerent comments. A guy who brushes his hand against the officer becomes a man taking a full force swing at the officer. Assault! Assault! Thats assault!!!!

The video isn't long enough to show the man say some really mean things to the police officers! It isn't long enough to show the man not cooperating!

Because if the guy had said some really nasty things to the officers and not done what they asked him to do, that gives them justification to lift a cripple out of his chair and slam his face into the pavement. That sounds like a completely reasonable reaction to me! I know for a fact it sounds like a perfectly reasonable reaction to those who constantly defend every mistake the police have ever made.

Why not simply admit that yeah, sometimes police do things that really aren't necessary. Sometimes they aren't as patient as they need to be. Look at that last sentence carefully- I said NEED to be. The final argument from those who defend the police to their final breath is that the critics of the police aren't police themselves! They can't possibly imagine the stress of the job, and maybe the officers were just sick of people's **** and having a bad day so therefore they are justified to yank a guy out of his wheelchair and slam his face into the sidewalk.

I've never been a police officer no, but my wife has a bachelor's degree in early childhood education and prior to her current job as a nanny for a local family she worked for 4 years at a day care center taking care of infants and toddlers. The argument that the police officers are justified in slamming a man, crippled or not, into the ground for basically nothing other than being disobedient and perhaps mouthy is like if my wife was at work, having a bad day, sick of the bull**** some little kid does, and decided to pick the kid up by his ankles and slam him into the ground face first. Only if she did that she would be arrested, fired, sued, etc. and if the police do it a bunch of FOP members and their friends come to their defense. Its hilarious. Police officers don't have the option of being patient and courteous every day. They need to be, they have to be.

Scenario: MTA officers see an old man in a wheel chair who is intoxicated/drinking in public. MTA officers request that the man leave the area, the man who is obviously drunk refuses and starts mouthing off to the cops. MTA officers prepare to place the man under arrest and take him in for public intoxication and carrying an open alcoholic beverage. The man struggles, tries to push the officers away.

Unreasonable solution: Pick the obviously weak and drunk crippled man up, out of his wheel chair, and slam him face first into the sidewalk in front of him.

Reasonable solution: Since there are two officers vs. one guy who is sitting down perhaps take the extra 10 seconds necessary to restrain the man in a gentler fashion, lean him forward, cuff him, and then transport him to the local jail.

Why do big strong officers need to slam some drunk guy in a wheel chair into the pavement? He didn't have a weapon, his version of resisting arrest would have been just as hard to overpower as when my cat resists taking his medicine and I have to take the extra few minutes to wrap him up in a towel beforehand. The cops got pissed and as a result some idiot got hurt. Lots of people say "oh well, **** him, he brought it on himself". I tend to agree that the man brought this situation on himself by not listening to the police and resisting them, however if the officers are better men than the guy in the wheel chair it would be nice if they could display that fact by acting in a civilized manner.

Cue the FOP coming in here telling me what a communist I am.

[Skin'Em84]

Handled horribly. Two officers to trip and beat down a man in a wheelchair who is just drunk?? Seriously, inexcusable....

Should've only taken one officer to kick his chair over and hit him with the taser.

[elkabong82]

You ever been a cop? Or dealt with angry/drunk/belligerent people who will dismiss anything you say?

Again, no one gets arrested just because. You gotta earn it.

Yes, I have several years of bartending experience, I have had to deal with it before. Just because someone isn't a cop doesn't mean they are incapabe of properly assessing a situation.

I know what happened in this story and have been talking about, your breakdown was unneccessary.

I got the jist of your opinion. The big scary guy in the wheelchair put his arm up, so it was clearly a full swung punch, and the only possible solution to stop such a dangerous and immediate threat was to slam the guy in a wheelchair to the ground.

If you'd bothered to read my posts at all, instead of just leaping to defend cops, you'd have seen that I already said that I doubt thse cops are frequent abusers, that likely they simply got frustrated at the situation, which is understandable, and lapsed in judgement when the guys hand went up. It's not like they were kicking him while on the ground. So you're whole speech about the stress cops face and how they don't want to deal ith this stuff if they don't have to is a point I already understand and doesn't address the actual necessity of their actions. A takedown for a guy in a wheelchair is not necessary.

"No one gets arrested just because." Wow, you can't really believe that. I'm not saying it happens a lot, but false arrests because of a cop using poor judgement do happen. I think racial profiling and the issues we have with it in the police force fit the definition of arresting "just because." As I said previously, cops are humans too, they are capable of making mistakes.

---------- Post added May-24th-2011 at 12:39 PM ----------

Umm, yeah, gotta say your crazy if this is truly how you feel. If you are assaulted, the last thing you want to do is give a suspect more time and space. Quite the opposite in fact. You want to eliminate the threat as swiftly and efficiently as possible. Time and space often leads to escalation of force.

except the "threat" you are talking about in this case is in a whechair. You're acting like the guy dealt out some viscious uppercut or something and would have kept landing viscious body blows had the cops not reacted immediately with a takedown.

time and space should not excuse an unnecessay escalation of force. But for someone who thinks cops do no wrong and never make wrongfull arrests, I'm not surprised you're making such excuses for them. mean, yes their job is tough and at times unappreciated. But again they are people, they can make mistakes. Corruption and racial discrimination have marred police stations across the country during our history, so do you really mean to suggest cops are no longer capable of fault?

[Titaw]

Blah, Blah, Blah **** the po-lice

Cue the FOP coming in here telling me what a communist I am.

Not FOP here but I think you are off base. Look, the man was severely intoxicated and the confrontation probably started long before the camera started recording. If the man would have listened to the officers in the first place none of this would have happened. Those police officers didn't see the drunk asshat and say to each other, "let's see how hard we can slam this cripple into the pavement face first." More than likely the officers attempted on numerous occasions to ensure the situation did NOT end in an arrest or even a citation but the man decided that the best course of action was to mouth off and fight the officers tooth and nail for his booze. This is probably how the confrontation went:

Cops: Sir, you need to dispose of your alcohol and move along.

Guy: **** you! I ain't hurtin' nobody!

Cops: Sir, it is illegal to have an open container in Public in the District of Columbia.

Guy: I don't give a ****! I ain't hurtin nobody! You just hasslin me like always!

Cops: Sir, if you don't discard of your alcohol and move along we are going to have to write you a citation.

Guy: Kiss my *** pigs, I ain't doin nuffin (takes a drink)

Cops: Sir, DO NOT take another drink! This is your final warning, you will be placed under arrest for public intoxication and failure to obey a police officer.

Guy: **** you! I have my rights, ya'll ain't gunna do *****! (takes a swig)

Video starts

Just because this guy was sitting in a motorized chair doesn't mean he's a cripple, it just means he uses the chair to get around. The police officers have to treat him the same way they treat a regular drunk that is willing to fight back.

Oh and BTW to others that are alluding to this, the cops didn't confront and subsequently forcefully take him down arrest him because he was black. The color of his skin was not why he was treated the way he was, it was the content of his character.

[Teller]

Its funny hearing cops or people who sympathize with the police defending instances where the police did something wrong and over the top. Its always the same. Innocuous comments from a drunk man become extremely inflammatory belligerent comments. A guy who brushes his hand against the officer becomes a man taking a full force swing at the officer. Assault! Assault! Thats assault!!!!

No, actually it's battery. Battery is defined as "physical contact of an insulting or provoking nature." And it's a crime. The rest of your post is a ridiculous exaggeration of the other position; which of course, you have to do to make an argument.

[19Skins72]

Why would a police officer handle every situation he encounters the same way? I would think the unique details of a situation would factor in. Should a person handle an "assault" from a small child the same way they would from a man in his mid 20s in good condition? Of course not. The person in this case was drunk and in a wheel chair. It isn't unreasonable to demand that factor into decision making.

I agree with you to the extent that I would expect an officer of the law to show restraint in the face of an aggressive child, elderly adult, or pregnant woman.

In this case, the offender is a drunken adult male in a wheelchair that punched a cop. I have little pity for him, and I think the officers acted reasonably. Yes the perp got hurt. No I do not think the officers intentionally injured him. Given the guy is in a wheelchair, they could have handled getting him out better, but I think that is more of a training issue than an intent to injure.

After looking at other posts, what I don't get about this is the outrage because the guy is in a wheelchair. Let me assure you, a man in a wheelchair is capable of a punch that can injure you. A man in a wheelchair is capable of hiding a weapon. I appreciate the fact that you care about those of us that are handicapped, however the vast majority of us would prefer that you treated us like everyone else - even when we are being asshats...

[No_Pressure]

Blah blah blah being belligerent gives the cops the right to smack your head on the sidewalk blah blah blah.

Wait...actually I don't have to reply, my point is in my fantastic quote (I can paraphrase while being a dick also!)

HEY THIS GUY IS BEING AN ******* AND I HAVE A BADGE I THINK I'LL TOSS HIS FACE INTO THE SIDEWALK THERE!!!

If somebody being a dick and not doing what a cop tells him to do is reason to toss him around like a rag doll, AND people are ok with it because it's happening to an unsavory individual, this society is pretty ****ed up.

No, actually it's battery. Battery is defined as "physical contact of an insulting or provoking nature." And it's a crime. The rest of your post is a ridiculous exaggeration of the other position; which of course, you have to do to make an argument.

How's this for ridiculous? A drunk idiot in a wheel chair gets slammed into the pavement for being an ******* and pushing away a police officer. Pushing away, sure everybody knows you're not supposed to put your hands on a police officer. Everybody also knows you're not supposed to be drunk in public right?

The man in the video is clearly in the wrong. I never said **** the police because I respect GOOD police officers who do their jobs well and serve the community with distinction. Those officers aren't serving with distinction. I remember a friend of mine who is a member of a local police force telling me one time about the types of officers he works with. There are ones who are interested in helping the public and using a light touch when they can, and there are ones who don't give a **** and like the job because of the power it gives them.

I just wish FOP people could ****ing admit for once when police officers are wrong. You're a police officer. Would you have smacked that man onto the pavement like that, even if you were the one he was pushing away and he had put his hands on your face? If you had another officer there backing you up and you could easily subdue some old drunk guy in a wheelchair would you have opted to go the route of restraining the man and taking him into custody without injuring him, or would you have just said "hey you know what, you just made me angry so now you're going to get slammed into the ground"?

[Titaw]

Respect the Police and this kind of **** does not happen.

If he would have said yes sir and did what the police officers asked him to do every single step of the way until the altercation came to an end the end result would not have been a face full of concrete.

END...THREAD!!!