KDawg Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 http://www.pro-football-reference.com/blog/?p=6364#more-6364 No quarterback has led the league in passing yards and won the Super Bowl in the same season. Here's a full list of passing leaders, defined as the player with the most passing yards, in the Super Bowl era: Click the link for the year-by-year list of passing leaders. I think this is interesting. Obviously, some where down the line this is going to be broken and its only a matter of time. But, that will be the exception, not the rule. So why do teams want to pass the ball so much in the modern day NFL? My preference as a coach, and a fan, is to build the run game and have a competent passing attack that is set up off the run. It's why I personally don't like running a West Coast system which is designed for the pass to set up the run. I think this is a very Redskins related topic due to Kyle Shanahan's career 58/42 pass/run ratio and last year's 63/37 pass/run ratio for this team. What does everyone else make of this? (I may start a few threads today... I want football conversation, damnit ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipwhich Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Interesting to read that list. This would be a long Oldfan thread, had he thought to start it himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted May 23, 2011 Author Share Posted May 23, 2011 It's also worth pointing out that only four of them (Marino, Warner, Gannon and Brady) even played in the Super Bowl. If you read the comments section on that link, the author goes on to say that only two quarterbacks who ranked #2 in yards ever won the Super Bowl... Warner in in '99 and Manning in '06. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destructis Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 I would like to see where the SB winning QB placed in the passing standings for this to tell me anything at all. They could have been top 5 and that would change how this is read greatly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipwhich Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 It's also worth pointing out that only four of them (Marino, Warner, Gannon and Brady) even played in the Super Bowl.If you read the comments section on that link, the author goes on to say that only two quarterbacks who ranked #2 in yards ever won the Super Bowl... Warner in in '99 and Manning in '06. On the other hand, you can point out that a number of those QB's that were passing leaders won Super Bowls in other years. In the years they did win, maybe they weren't the passing leader, but probably in the top 5 if you looked them up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted May 23, 2011 Author Share Posted May 23, 2011 I would like to see where the SB winning QB placed in the passing standings for this to tell me anything at all. Well, that's not accurate. It tells you something quite concrete. No passing leader has ever won the Super Bowl. They could have been top 5 and that would change how this is read greatly. It wouldn't change that no leader has never won the Super Bowl, but I would agree that it could change the perception. Who's up for looking that up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbs Hog Heaven Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Darn it KD man. I was having a half decent start to the week until I opened this and saw Sonny's name staring back at me. The same SonnyJ who was the last true franchise QB this organizations had, whatever convoluted opinion the flake that is Joe Theismann has of himself. 37 years is WAY too freaking long to wait for that. When will this nightmare of mediocrity under center end? But I digress, back to your scheduled thread ..... Hail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jflow78 Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 So why do teams want to pass the ball so much in the modern day NFL? I was having a conversation about this a couple weeks ago. People like to claim we're in a "new age" of football where it's a passing league, but teams that pass more than they run rarely do good. Bottom line is you MUST run the football to consistently be a really good team. Granted, lots of teams have been great with unheralded RB combinations lately, Pats have rarely had a great RB, Green Bay's RBs were nearly all injured last season, but like you said, I think it's the exception for a team to pass more than they run and be successful. I'll look up stats on it later and post them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
December90 Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Now that you have looked at passing leaders, do the same for rushing leaders. to the best of my recollection, Emmit Smith is the only person to lead the league in rushing and win the Super Bowl in the same year. Maybe it is about being more balanced or perhaps proof that "Defense wins Championships"??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted May 23, 2011 Author Share Posted May 23, 2011 Now that you have looked at passing leaders, do the same for rushing leaders. to the best of my recollection, Emmit Smith is the only person to lead the league in rushing and win the Super Bowl in the same year. Maybe it is about being more balanced or perhaps proof that "Defense wins Championships"??? It could be. But I didn't look into anything. So why don't you look into the rushing leaders? (Or I may. I just hate when people give me more to do) ---------- Post added May-23rd-2011 at 09:04 AM ---------- http://firethewalrus.com/2011/01/26/the-best-offense-is-a-great-defense/ Super Bowls since 2000:2000 – Super Bowl 35 Baltimore Ravens – 2nd Defense; 16th Offense New York Giants – 5th Defense; 13th Offense 2001 – Super Bowl 36 New England Patriots – 24th Defense; 19th Offense St. Louis Rams – 3rd Defense; 1st Offense 2002 – Super Bowl 37 Tampa Bay Buccaneers – 1st Defense; 24th Offense Oakland Raiders – 11th Defense; 1st Offense 2003 – Super Bowl 38 New England Patriots– 7th Defense; 17th Offense Carolina Panthers – 8th Defense; 16th Offense 2004 – Super Bowl 39 New England Patriots – 9th Defense; 7th Offense Philadelphia Eagles – 10th Defense; 9th Offense 2005 – Super Bowl 40 Pittsburgh Steelers – 4th Defense; 15th Offense Seattle Seahawks – 16th Defense; 2nd Offense 2006 – Super Bowl 41 Indianapolis Colts – 21st Defense; 3rd Offense Chicago Bears – 5th Defense; 15th Offense 2007 – Super Bowl 42 New York Giants – 7th Defense; 16th Offense New England Patriots – 4th Defense; 1st Offense 2008 – Super Bowl 43 Pittsburgh Steelers – 1st Defense; 22nd Offense Arizona Cardinals – 19th Defense; 4th Offense 2009 – Super Bowl 44 New Orleans Saints – 25th Defense; 1st Offense Indianapolis Colts – 18th Defense; 9th Offense According to that site, the only team to rank first in overall offense and win the Super Bowl was the New Orleans Saints in 2009 (read the link for that tidbit). But overall, to me, it looks like there might be something to the defense wins championships mentality... But that doesn't disqualify running as being an important aspect of winning a title, either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techboy Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 I don't think it really means much. The team that leads in passing yardage usually does so because they're behind a lot, and throwing to catch up. Pass first teams have won the Super Bowl (Colts, Patriots, Saints off the top of my head), and they could have led the league in passing if they had to, but they didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted May 23, 2011 Author Share Posted May 23, 2011 Went through and looked through the entire Super Bowl era for top 5 team offense and top 5 team defense stats. The two stats I looked at were points and yards for both sides of the ball. 44 Super Bowls. Of those 44: 21 of them had teams that had at least one statistic (points or yards) in the top 5 on both sides of the ball. 34/44 had a team that had at least one defensive stat (points or yards) in the top 5. 28/44 had a team that had at least one offensive stat (points or yards) in the top 5. 18/44 had a defensive stat (yards or points) ranked 1st. 12/44 had an offensive stat (yards or points) ranked 1st. 6/44 had BOTH defensive stats ranked 1st ('69 Chiefs, '72 Phins, '85 Bears, '96 Pack, '02 Bucs, '08 Steelers) 7/44 had BOTH offensive stats ranked 1st ('71 Pokes, '72 Phins, '79 Steelers, '89 49ers, '92 Broncos, '99 Rams, '09 Saints) 4/44 had one offensive and one defensive stat (yards or points) ranked 1st. (71 Pokes, '72 Dolphins, '77 Pokes, '96 Pack) 13/44 were ranked 1st in points defensively 11/44 were ranked 1st in yards defensively 11/44 were ranked 1st in points offensively 8/44 were ranked 1st in yards offensively 1/44 had a team that was ranked 1st in all four categories, the '72 Dolphins. ---------- Post added May-23rd-2011 at 10:04 AM ---------- The next step is to break it down by passing/rushing, but I don't have time for that. I'd like to get a list of Super Bowl winning teams who had a rushing leader. I can do that tomorrow if no one does it before then, but boy would it be nice to see that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean_e_b Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Now that you have looked at passing leaders, do the same for rushing leaders. to the best of my recollection, Emmit Smith is the only person to lead the league in rushing and win the Super Bowl in the same year. Smith led the league and won the Super Bowl in the same year on two occasions (1992 and 1993) and Terrell Davis did it in 1998. I agree that balance is definitely the key. Just look at these teams and you'll realize they're pretty damn good at every position. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NFL_annual_rushing_leaders http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Super_Bowl_champions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texasthunder Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Maybe it means that winning the Superbowl is a team effort ?? Offense, Defense, and Special Teams Or maybe it just means that stats are something to discuss during a friggin lockout ............................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted May 23, 2011 Author Share Posted May 23, 2011 Maybe it means that winning the Superbowl is a team effort ??Offense, Defense, and Special Teams Well, yeah. No kidding. However, this conversation is more about what is more important. Or maybe it just means that stats are something to discuss during a friggin lockout ............................... Why the hostility? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annonymous Source Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 I would like to add in to this theory. The reason that you dont often see the types of individual numbers on a championship team is because there is too much talent. For an example of this just look at the Miami Heat this year. They took 3 players who were putting up all world numbers on seperate teams and put them together on the same team and all of their numbers declined. This isnt necessarily caused because they were less effective, it is because there are more options to use. The same situation is true in football. If you have a better defense then there will be less pressure on the offense to have to score in bunches. If you have a better offense then the defense will be more aggressive instead of playing bend but dont break. If you have 2 amazing Wide Recievers then neither one of them will get the same amount of production as alongside a poor #2 reciever. If your team has an all star runningback then there will be less pass attempts and vice versa. It is more a testament to how accross the board talented a typical superbowl winning team is than it is a testament to run-pass choices. To be the best team in the NFL you need to be able to pass well and run well as well as defend the pass and the run and play good special teams. I know that you are just looking for a good football debate, so I will throw in my 2 cents. I am a former lineman. I always loved it when our team ran the ball because I could see how I directly influenced the play. I always felt myself get into a rythym after a couple runs in which I started performing better. When we were passing a lot I always felt cut off from the action. I didn't have to even touch my man in order to block him, I just needed to get in his way. When there were several consecutive passing plays I felt myself get out of sync. I know that doesn't carry over to the professional level, but that is just what I experienced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryGreenMonk Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 defense wins championships. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hitman21ST Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Pass first teams have won the Super Bowl (Colts, Patriots, Saints off the top of my head), and they could have led the league in passing if they had to, but they didn't. IIRC, Manning sat out the 4th quarter of a lot of the games in the year they won the Super Bowl. Had he not done that, he most definitely would have won the passing title. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Tris Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Bottom line is you MUST run the football to consistently be a really good team. Granted, lots of teams have been great with unheralded RB combinations lately, Pats have rarely had a great RB, Green Bay's RBs were nearly all injured last season, but like you said, I think it's the exception for a team to pass more than they run and be successful. Not sure if that is entirely true. Rushing stats for Super Bowl Winners since 2001: 2001: Ravens: 5th 2002: Pats: 13th 2003: Bucs: 27th 2004: Pats: 27th 2005: Pats: 7th 2006: Steelers: 5th 2007: Colts: 18th 2008: Giants: 4th 2009: Steelers: 23rd 2010: Saints: 6th 2011: Packers: 24th Simnilar this thread title - No NFL team rushing leader has won the Super Bowl this decade. The last team to win the Super Bowl with the #1 rushing attack was the 1985 Bears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destructis Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Not sure if that is entirely true.Rushing stats for Super Bowl Winners since 2001: 2001: Ravens: 5th 2002: Pats: 13th 2003: Bucs: 27th 2004: Pats: 27th 2005: Pats: 7th 2006: Steelers: 5th 2007: Colts: 18th 2008: Giants: 4th 2009: Steelers: 23rd 2010: Saints: 6th 2011: Packers: 24th Simnilar this thread title - No NFL team rushing leader has won the Super Bowl this decade. The last team to win the Super Bowl with the #1 rushing attack was the 1985 Bears. Ravens - Rushing Pats - Passing Bucs - Rushing Pats - Passing Pats - Passing Steelers - Rushing Colts - Passing Giants - Rushing Steelers - Rushing Saints - Passing Packers - Passing The teams I listed as Passing are the teams that I feel use the Pass to set up the run rather than run to set up the pass. You asked the question... So why do teams want to pass the ball so much in the modern day NFL? So out of 11 winners, 6 of them were more passing teams. I do feel that a balance is necessary, but it does explain why teams tend to pass more when it's the strength of the offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Tris Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Since 2008, the Steelers have been a better passing team than running team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted May 23, 2011 Author Share Posted May 23, 2011 Simnilar this thread title - No NFL team rushing leader has won the Super Bowl this decade. Except ten years is a lot smaller than 44. So out of 11 winners, 6 of them were more passing teams. I do feel that a balance is necessary, but it does explain why teams tend to pass more when it's the strength of the offense. Valid. However, when I said modern, I probably should have specified. I meant in the Super Bowl era. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice_of_Reason Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 To me, this overall trend seams very logical: Any time that your offense tends very strongly to one side, be it run OR pass, you're not going to be as competitive in the win/loss department. Another thing that can inflate passing yards is bad defenses. If you HAVE to score points and move the ball, you're going to throw the ball more. If you look at that list of passing leaders, without doing the research, you can sorta see that the teams weren't exactly defensive juggernauts, for the most part. And finally, the teams that have the leading passers tend not to have much in the way of running games. It's taken me a long time to get over my prejudice that a successful offense should be a run first offense. That's probably because I grew up in the 1980's watching the 'Skins run down everybody's throat, then smack them over the top. But that actually even started to change a bit under Coach Joe. The 1991 SB team was NOT a run first team. They were a pass first team that ran the ball awfully well. I think that a pass first, aggressive style offense, while maintaining good balance, is the key to winning. If you do everything well, a defense can't take any one thing away. Look at what the Jets were able to do to Brady last year in the playoffs. The Pats are not a great running team, and the Jets managed to take away the passing game, and they rendered the Pats offense ineffective. There was no plan B. And history repeats itself, because it's a virtual carbon-copy to what happened in the 2007 SB, when the Giants roughed up Brady something fierce, and the Pats had no real consistent answer. As far as play calling percentages go, run to pass, Kyle Shannahan also has been the OC for teams with historically bad defenses and that trail a lot in games. that means that your run to pass ratio is going to favor the pass regardless of your offensive philosophy. I think I've rambled on long enough. Sorry, I have a point here somewhere, but I am not really forming it really well today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Tris Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Except ten years is a lot smaller than 44. I know. So I kept going back. In the 44 seasons of the modern era, two teams won the Super Bowl and lead the league in rushing: the 1972 Dolphins and the 1985 Bears. Those two teams should register as unique. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted May 23, 2011 Author Share Posted May 23, 2011 I know. So I kept going back. In the 44 seasons of the modern era, two teams won the Super Bowl and lead the league in rushing: the 1972 Dolphins and the 1985 Bears. Those two teams should register as unique. Yup. My point was never to say that a team that led in rushing would be better. I did mention, however, that I prefer a rushing attack. I always prefer a team with a great D and great rushing attack with a decent pass game. Just my preference. I bet if we continued research we'd see a pretty good trend of rushing teams that had great Ds being successful more than passing teams. But, that's a guess until I bother to look it up. Or someone else does Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.