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Extremeskins

Car running on water...


dockeryfan

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Yes. I have heard this before. But what I'm really looking for is someone with actual experience with engines. (This isn't the bible where someone quotes chapter and verse of the laws of thermodynamics and everyone joins in a resounding amen.) If the hydrogen burns hotter/cleaner/etc, and a little added to the chamber helps you get more out of the gasoline...then in effect, you would get more out of your fuel.

Now how much energy does it cost to produce the H gas? Does that constitute a load on the engine? Do you just end up using more gasoline to do this?

That is what I am talking about.

If

I'm not just quoting laws in this thread. As a studying engineer, I've studied physics. I may not have done actual calculations to prove it doesn't work, but I really don't need to. Its like tying a keyboard to a TV and expecting it to become a computer. I don't need to do the math to know its not gonna work.

to store 5 joules of energy in hydrogen, it requires 5 joules of energy from something else. due to inefficiencies of our energy converters, it requires we expend more than that 5 joules of energy to store it in the form of hydrogen. in doing so, we have a net loss of energy in the system.

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This isn't the bible where someone quotes chapter and verse of the laws of thermodynamics and everyone joins in a resounding amen.

Fair enough.

But one major difference between science and the Bible is that science is experimentally verifiable, and can be used to make highly accurate, measurable, quantifiable, testable predictions. So quoting the First Law of Thermodynamics as doctrine isn't so bad. You can use mountains of proof to drive the conclusion that it's true, rather than vice-versa.

I see what you're saying with the idea that Hydrogen could possibly serve as a "helper" or catalyst to make the gasoline itself burn more efficiently. But Hydrogen doesn't do that, in the way you speculated. It delivers the energy it was given when it was separated from H20, but doesn't make any game-changing improvements in the way the rest of the combustible mixture in the cylinder delivers its own energy.

I used to do engineering work for the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration. Occasionally did a bit with engines, though I can't claim to be an expert. In engineering school it seemed that every thermodynamics class project I ever had to do was about engines. I got sick and tired of them. But from everything I've seen and studied, the First Law seems to apply under the hood just as well as it does everywhere else. ;)

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You guys are way behind the times.

My car has been running on water for YEARS.

I pour it in my radiator ; I pour it in my windshield cleaner resorvoir. I pour it on the body at the car wash. The whole thing practically runs on water. :silly:

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You guys are way behind the times.

My car has been running on water for YEARS.

I pour it in my radiator ; I pour it in my windshield cleaner resorvoir. I pour it on the body at the car wash. The whole thing practically runs on water. :silly:

You forgot to mention driving in the rain.

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As far as a car running on hydrogen, one of the first steps is to make the timing adjustable. H is very quickly burnt and you need to advance the timing. I don't know of too many people running straight Hydrogen, mostly H boost. You have to use a carburetter and rig the H to enter steadily and gradually. Simple copper fittings and 3/8 lines will do. Because H burns so quick, it can be mixed with slow burning fuel such as grease or lamp oil, again the timing must be adjusted or you get a humongous back-fire. Other parts of the car have to be updated as well. If anyone wants to ever try this be careful, there is both good and bad info out there on the net. I suggest starting simple - like with a lawnmower.

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As far as a car running on hydrogen, one of the first steps is to make the timing adjustable. H is very quickly burnt and you need to advance the timing. I don't know of too many people running straight Hydrogen, mostly H boost. You have to use a carburetter and rig the H to enter steadily and gradually. Simple copper fittings and 3/8 lines will do. Because H burns so quick, it can be mixed with slow burning fuel such as grease or lamp oil, again the timing must be adjusted or you get a humongous back-fire. Other parts of the car have to be updated as well. If anyone wants to ever try this be careful, there is both good and bad info out there on the net. I suggest starting simple - like with a lawnmower.

SO the people you know that have done this had to adjust the timing. Well, that makes it a little more complicated. Any specific information you can provide? Feel free to PM if you want. Did they have to do anything with the computer or the sensors? I know newer computers could actually run LESS efficiently in theory. Even if the extra hydrogen cost nothing.

So I have talked to one mechanic in depth. He said that the load on the alternator is minimal. Running lights, radio, etc, has a very minimal impact on mpg. The AC does have an impact. But that is because it is not only running on elec from the alternator, but from mechanical energy as well. The energy produced from the engine that turns a crankshaft would have a belt that turns the AC unit separately. That is what the energy suck is for the AC and why you see significant mpg reduction with an AC unit. People don't really talk about mpg reduction from running their subwoofers. (although it may exist, I'm not sure yet). He didn't know anything about running an electrolytic cell.

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