New Landscape for the NBA

[Gator Bait]

Not once have I heard it proven KG even said that. Villanueva is a bit of a headcase and seems to like to make stuff up/over dramatize situations.

I think it is funny that you chose to question Vilanueva's character before KG!!!! That is even funnier than the "allegations."

Maybe I can't prove it, but I KNOW KG said that ****. Has KG written all over it. He is probably the biggest trash talker in NBA history. The Celtics in general talk more trash than any team in the last 20 years.

remember...KG is mean and ugly

[KDawg]

I think it is funny that you chose to question Vilanueva's character before KG!!!! That is even funnier than the "allegations."

Oh? KG has a rep. for smack talk. I do admit the possibility that he said it, just as you should admit the possibility it was completely fabricated by a guy who has mental issues. Look at his little foray with Ryan Hollins. He kept going after him on the bench then TWICE tried to get into the Cavs locker room. Classy guy.

Maybe I can't prove it, but I KNOW KG said that ****.

If you can't prove it, you can't KNOW anything

[bushwack]

Which happens first?

NFL CBA agreement or an NBA CBA argreement? Right now I am going 65-35 in favor of the NFL. Each week that goes pass, the NBA gains a point.

It's definitely going to be NFL CBA. The NBA will have a lock out, and it could be for the entire season. The NBA is in a horrible financial state. I read where the NBA took over a $300+ million loss last year, and I'm not surprised, and the owners have to take a good amount of the blame for the size of the contracts they are handing out left and right.

Hell, the Timberwolves first traded for Darko Milicic and then they re-signed him to a 4-year deal worth $20 million. Why in the world would any owner give a guy of his stature and rep a $20 million deal.

Also, teams such as the Timberwolves need to be contracted. LBJ was right (even though he didn't have the balls to stand by his comments) when he said the NBA needs contraction, because it does. The league would be much better if teams like Minnesota, Toronto, Sacramento, Milwaukee, LA Clippers, and New Orleans weren't in the league. Teams would be better and there would be more parity throughout the league instead of having the same players and teams playing in the meaningful playoff series year after year. I saw a stat yesterday that said this year will be the first time since 1998 that there will be an NBA finals that doesn't have Shaq, Kobe, or Duncan in them.

[Warhead36]

I like the Allan Houston rule. Teams shouldn't be severely punished for rewarding a player who in turn doesn't live up to his contract, or suffers major injuries. And I like the Superstar rule too. It's stupid seeing all the best players bunch up to play for 3-4 teams while everyone else is left in the dark, basically turning the NBA into European club soccer.

I can't wait till the NBA gets a hard cap. I think Ted Leonsis is slowly and secretly outsmarting the rest of the league. Once the hard cap sets in teams like NY, LA, and Miami are going to be boned. Meanwhile the Wizards young roster and ample cap space will make them a desirable team to play for.

[Gator Bait]

It's definitely going to be NFL CBA. The NBA will have a lock out, and it could be for the entire season.

I do agree that the NFL CBA will get done before the NBA CBA..but that is only because the process has been going on much longer. In my opinion the NFL lockout is all about greed....the recently expired CBA was pretty sufficient for all parties...the owners were making a ton of money, all of the franchises were profitable, players were making lots of money...the sport is the most dominate popularity wise and money wise in the US. The League and the (former) players association both know a long drawn out lockout will be very toxic for all parties involved and eventually could push away fans like the NBA and NHL lockouts did in the past. They are also dropping tons of money in unnecessary litigation costs. I'd be very surprised to see this lockout go past July.

NBA on the other hand isn't making NFL money....many of the owners are deep into the red and the league itself is not profitable as a whole with the current landscape. This lockout is about financial...it isn't about if the players agree to the leagues demands, it is a matter of when. It is inevitable, and all sides are aware. I'd be surprised if a new CBA wasn't in tact by the time preseason basketball is supposed to start.

The NBA is in a horrible financial state. I read where the NBA took over a $300+ million loss last year, and I'm not surprised, and the owners have to take a good amount of the blame for the size of the contracts they are handing out left and right.

very true

Hell, the Timberwolves first traded for Darko Milicic and then they re-signed him to a 4-year deal worth $20 million. Why in the world would any owner give a guy of his stature and rep a $20 million deal.

The Darko deal really wasn't as bad as everyone made it out to be. Decent Big men are a premium in the NBA....as I pointed out in my original post, look how much Bwood and Diop got. Darko's deal was a fraction of that and he is actually a better player than wood or Diop. The reason the Darko deal looked so bad is because he still has the stigma of a #2 overall pick bust. It especially makes it worse that guys like Melo, Bosh, and Dwade were picked after him. Kwame is actually in the same situation. He is actually an average rotational Big man...definitely nothing special, and I wouldn't want him starting for my team, but if it wasn't for the #1 overall pick and the bust stigma...no one would say the guy sucks.

Also, teams such as the Timberwolves need to be contracted. LBJ was right (even though he didn't have the balls to stand by his comments) when he said the NBA needs contraction, because it does. The league would be much better if teams like Minnesota, Toronto, Sacramento, Milwaukee, LA Clippers, and New Orleans weren't in the league. Teams would be better and there would be more parity throughout the league instead of having the same players and teams playing in the meaningful playoff series year after year. I saw a stat yesterday that said this year will be the first time since 1998 that there will be an NBA finals that doesn't have Shaq, Kobe, or Duncan in them.

I agree that the franchises you mentioned wouldn't be missed and that the league has become somewhat diluted, however, I don't believe getting rid of 6 or so franchises would make the league any more competitive from a parity perspective. Just look at the league back in the 50 - 70s.....the league was much smaller in that time frame...but you still had the same teams going to the finals every year.

There have been 60 champions in the history of the NBA, The Celtic and Lakers own a combined 33 of them! Most of those championships were won back before there was even 23 teams in the league. The league wasn't more competitive from a parity perspective then, and it wouldn't be in this case either.

An argument not to reduce the teams in the NBA would be from a popularity perspective. If the NBA got rid of 6 NBA teams, they would likely get rid of the majority of NBA fans who lived in those cities as well. Many people would probably stop watching basketball if their teams were suddenly taken away. I know I'd be much less interested in the NBA if the Wizards left DC or didn't exist anymore. I'd likely follow the playoffs, but I definitely wouldn't watch the regular season anymore or go to the games.

---------- Post added May-13th-2011 at 11:47 AM ----------

Oh? KG has a rep. for smack talk. I do admit the possibility that he said it, just as you should admit the possibility it was completely fabricated by a guy who has mental issues. Look at his little foray with Ryan Hollins. He kept going after him on the bench then TWICE tried to get into the Cavs locker room. Classy guy.

If you can't prove it, you can't KNOW anything

never called Vilenueva classy....I just think it is funny you are treating KG as a model citizen that would never even dream of saying that to another player. ..and yes...I know KG said it.

[KDawg]

never called Vilenueva classy....I just think it is funny you are treating KG as a model citizen that would never even dream of saying that to another player. ..and yes...I know KG said it.

Oh? KG has a rep. for smack talk. I do admit the possibility that he said it, just as you should admit the possibility it was completely fabricated by a guy who has mental issues. Look at his little foray with Ryan Hollins.

Try again, sir.

Oh, and no. You don't.

[Gator Bait]

I like the Allan Houston rule. Teams shouldn't be severely punished for rewarding a player who in turn doesn't live up to his contract, or suffers major injuries. And I like the Superstar rule too. It's stupid seeing all the best players bunch up to play for 3-4 teams while everyone else is left in the dark, basically turning the NBA into European club soccer.

I can't wait till the NBA gets a hard cap. I think Ted Leonsis is slowly and secretly outsmarting the rest of the league. Once the hard cap sets in teams like NY, LA, and Miami are going to be boned. Meanwhile the Wizards young roster and ample cap space will make them a desirable team to play for.

You are kind of contradicting yourself here Warhead. The Allan Houston rule will adversely effect the Wizards. You are correct when you pointed out that Ted Leonsis is secretly outsmarting the rest of the league....we are actually set up extremely well for the future. We have many young promising players already on our team, 2 first round picks in the upcoming draft (along with a high second round pick), and have great cap flexibility moving forward. The Allan Houston rule will negate our proper team management because it will bail out all the teams who acted irresponsibly.

With the Allan Houston rule in place, the Heat will be able to drop Chris Bosh and put themselves in play for Dwight Howard...they could also drop Bosh and surround LeBron and Dwade with role players (like they should have done initially)

A hard cap without the Allan Houston rule greatly benefits up in coming teams who have constructed their teams correctly and are in good cap standing, like OKC/Memphis/Washington/LA Clippers etc.

I do like the European soccer comment though....the NBA is pretty much already there compared to the other major sports leagues in the US. There are constantly money deals going down for players and draft picks in the NBA. The difference is, teams are usually paying for other teams to take their baggage..like our Hinrich deal last year. Then you have the Phoenix Suns who whore away all their draft picks. Can you imagine if the Suns actually kept the picks for Rondo and Deng? If they had paid Joe Johnson and kept Marrion and Stoudamire. They would be deep into the luxury tax, but they'd also probably have multiple championships with this lineup:

Nash/Rondo

Johnson

Deng/Marrion

Stoudamire

...I know I'm missing a few major pieces here.

would be funny if the NBA was more like Euro soccer though...can you imagine the outrage in LA when the Lakers sold Kobe to prokhorov for 100 million dollars and a coney dog!

---------- Post added May-13th-2011 at 12:00 PM ----------

Try again, sir.

Oh, and no. You don't.

this could go on for days...you believe what you want to believe.....the rest of us know the truth about MF KG

[Forehead]

I think there was a second trash-talker on the grassy knoll.

[artmonkforHOF]

As a Raptor fan, I would buy out Bargnani before Calderon. Both suck and are anchors to this team moving forward, but I doubt Colangelo will let go of his Baby Andrea. Jose makes $9.9m in 11-12, and $10.6m in 12-13, But Andrea makes $9mil next year and gets a $1m raise every year until the contract ends in 14-15 at $12m.

I would much rather have an overpaid PG who can't defend on my team than an overpaid bad shooting SG in a 7 footers body who can't rebound, can't post and has no basketball IQ like Bargnani, because at least you could trade Calderon to a team that has PG problems-maybe an injury or two to their PG's- but Bargnani is completely untradeable.

As for Bosh, wait and see how these playoffs end up, I could see Bosh being MVP of the Finals while averaging less than 15 points and about 10 rebounds if he can shut down Nowitzki like I have seen him do in Toronto before, if it's a Miami Dallas Final. I am not confident the Heat gets past the Bulls though. Come to think of it, Miami might want that to happen to up Bosh's asking price in a trade where they get a young stud still on a rookie contract and a few picks or rotation guys thrown in.

That hard cap is going to hurt a lot of teams. Right now 24 teams are over the cap for 2010-2011, some as much by $33m and when the cap is only $58 that is a lot of $ to trim.

[Gator Bait]

I think there was a second trash-talker on the grassy knoll.

I agree....her name starts and ends with the same letter...and she cries all night till you get her liquored up!

---------- Post added May-13th-2011 at 12:44 PM ----------

As a Raptor fan, I would buy out Bargnani before Calderon. Both suck and are anchors to this team moving forward, but I doubt Colangelo will let go of his Baby Andrea. Jose makes $9.9m in 11-12, and $10.6m in 12-13, But Andrea makes $9mil next year and gets a $1m raise every year until the contract ends in 14-15 at $12m.

I would much rather have an overpaid PG who can't defend on my team than an overpaid bad shooting SG in a 7 footers body who can't rebound, can't post and has no basketball IQ like Bargnani, because at least you could trade Calderon to a team that has PG problems-maybe an injury or two to their PG's- but Bargnani is completely untradeable.

As for Bosh, wait and see how these playoffs end up, I could see Bosh being MVP of the Finals while averaging less than 15 points and about 10 rebounds if he can shut down Nowitzki like I have seen him do in Toronto before, if it's a Miami Dallas Final. I am not confident the Heat gets past the Bulls though. Come to think of it, Miami might want that to happen to up Bosh's asking price in a trade where they get a young stud still on a rookie contract and a few picks or rotation guys thrown in.

That hard cap is going to hurt a lot of teams. Right now 24 teams are over the cap for 2010-2011, some as much by $33m and when the cap is only $58 that is a lot of $ to trim.

great post man....always good to hear the outlook of a non bandwagon NBA fan who also isn't a fan of the local team. You would definitely know your team much better than I would, but I don't think Bargnani is nearly as bad as you make him out to be. I see him as a stretch 4 who can't defend. You can get away with that in the NBA as long as you have good defenders around him (which the raptors don't) especially at the center position. The good think about Bargnani is he can get you 20+ a night on a consistent basis. Still though...stretch 4s w/ no defense are always more attractive when they aren't on your team (Jamison). I do agree that Calderon has higher trade value under the current CBA...but I doubt either of those guys will have much of a trade value with the new CBA.

I think you give Bosh way too much credit. Bosh is a good player on a lousy team...but so was Andray Blatche in 2009-2010. Bosh has been fully exposed in Miami for the soft/no defense/finesse type player he is. I definitely wouldn't want him on my team! I can't see see anyone other than Dwade being the MVP of the finals on that Heat team. The Heat will go as far as Dwade can carry them...LeBron and Bosh will both end up crumbling in the end.

The hard cap would definitely hurt a lot of team if the new CBA didn't have the Allan Houson rule or the tiered cap reduction...but it likely will have both. If teams are able to dump 20 million a year contracts and then have 3 years to get under the hard cap...it is much more manageable....still might be tough for the Lakers to get under...but they away seem to figure out something. As far as the other teams with high cap numbers right now:

Dallas has lots of money coming off the books this year with Chandler and Butler expiring; Orlando would use the Allan Houston rule on Gil and DHoward will likely not re-sign; Boston has the majority of their money coming off the books in 2012 (KG & Allen); Utah is shedding AK47's contract; Houston - Yao.....so as you can see...most of these teams will have no problem complying with the new proposed CBA hard cap plan. No idea how the Lakers will pull it off.

***another side note I think I failed to bring up before....in the new CBA proposal, current salaries would be scaled back as the cap was scaled back. That is the part that is going to be tough to sell to guys like Kobe Bryant who are scheduled to make over 80 million the next three years.

[artmonkforHOF]

That comment he made about the Pistons was way uncalled for.

agree, that was just plain hateful and mean.

[Gator Bait]

agree, that was just plain hateful and mean.

no...it is mean and ugly

[Warhead36]

You are kind of contradicting yourself here Warhead. The Allan Houston rule will adversely effect the Wizards. You are correct when you pointed out that Ted Leonsis is secretly outsmarting the rest of the league....we are actually set up extremely well for the future. We have many young promising players already on our team, 2 first round picks in the upcoming draft (along with a high second round pick), and have great cap flexibility moving forward. The Allan Houston rule will negate our proper team management because it will bail out all the teams who acted irresponsibly.

With the Allan Houston rule in place, the Heat will be able to drop Chris Bosh and put themselves in play for Dwight Howard...they could also drop Bosh and surround LeBron and Dwade with role players (like they should have done initially)

A hard cap without the Allan Houston rule greatly benefits up in coming teams who have constructed their teams correctly and are in good cap standing, like OKC/Memphis/Washington/LA Clippers etc.

Hmm you are right about that. Still, I don't think teams will just hand out buy outs every year like they're candy. It costs a ton of $ up front that most franchises can't afford to spend just to get rid of a player.

[Gator Bait]

Hmm you are right about that. Still, I don't think teams will just hand out buy outs every year like they're candy. It costs a ton of $ up front that most franchises can't afford to spend just to get rid of a player.

that is correct sir....and this is the reason I don't agree with destino's proposal of unlimited Allan Houston type buy outs....there are only a hand full of teams in the NBA who could afford that.

[Warhead36]

Yeah there definitely should be a limit on it, either a limit on the amount of $ you can spend on a buy out or the amount of buy outs you can use up over a given period of time. I think it was skinfan2k who said once every five years, that seems too long for me. One big buy out(big being over $10 Mil I guess)every three years sounds fair.

[Gator Bait]

Yeah there definitely should be a limit on it, either a limit on the amount of $ you can spend on a buy out or the amount of buy outs you can use up over a given period of time. I think it was skinfan2k who said once every five years, that seems too long for me. One big buy out(big being over $10 Mil I guess)every three years sounds fair.

I prefer Skinsfan2k's proposal of 5 years. But you also must remember, with the new CBA...contracts will only be partially guaranteed anyway...which helps elevate the pain of a team who has a bust or injured player.

[88Comrade2000]

Can you say LOCKOUT!!! That's where the NBA negotations will be heading and it's very possible the entire 2011-12 season could be wiped out.

[Gator Bait]

Can you say LOCKOUT!!! That's where the NBA negotations will be heading and it's very possible the entire 2011-12 season could be wiped out.

no way....the players would be foolish not to agree to the league's proposal or something similar to it. The players no ammunition in this battle...it is a very different situation than the NFL lockout...in which I think the players need to stand their ground.

[Destino]

no way....the players would be foolish not to agree to the league's proposal or something similar to it. The players no ammunition in this battle...it is a very different situation than the NFL lockout...in which I think the players need to stand their ground.

Not sure if I agree. Players already have everything they want (for the most part). They have no reason to agree to all concessions as the owners have nothing to offer them in return. The owners aren't going to get everything they want unless the players are forced to agree at gun point.

[Gator Bait]

Not sure if I agree. Players already have everything they want (for the most part). They have no reason to agree to all concessions as the owners have nothing to offer them in return. The owners aren't going to get everything they want unless the players are forced to agree at gun point.

the owners wont get everything they want, but they will definitely get closer to what they want than the current CBA gives the players.

[Destino]

the owners wont get everything they want, but they will definitely get closer to what they want than the current CBA gives the players.

Agree. The major issue I want resolved is something that puts coaches in control of their teams. The league can't have everyone guaranteed 100% of their money.

[Gator Bait]

Agree. The major issue I want resolved is something that puts coaches in control of their teams. The league can't have everyone guaranteed 100% of their money.

I like the tiered system I cam up with, where guarantees go down throughout the life of the contract:

year 1: 100% guaranteed

2: 75%

3: 50%

4: 25%

5: no guaranteed money

I don't like the way the NFL does it...where you can give a guy a 7 year 100million dollar deal (that is really a 3 year 41million dollar deal) and there are roster bonuses and practice bonuses and performance incentives. I kind of liked the way the NBA contracts were pretty cut and dry and their is a rookie scale that every team must follow, and max salary rules that every team must follow..

on the other hand...the NBA complicates things with soft cap, luxury tax, mid level and bi-annual exceptions, bird rules...and everything else. Both are complicated in their own ways....would be nice to formulate a CBA that combines the best from both worlds.

[DM72]

Over the years baseball has gotten blasted for having a few haves and way too many have nots. The NBA for some reason have gotten a pass. Right now, the NBA might be as bad or even worse than baseball

[Sticksboi05]

Over the years baseball has gotten blasted for having a few haves and way too many have nots. The NBA for some reason have gotten a pass. Right now, the NBA might be as bad or even worse than baseball

8 teams have won titles in the last 30 years. Enough said. 9 teams have won the Cup this past decade, 7 teams have won the Superbowl. 8 won the World Series. Problem? Yes.

[artmonkforHOF]

I agree....her name starts and ends with the same letter...and she cries all night till you get her liquored up!

---------- Post added May-13th-2011 at 12:44 PM ----------

great post man....always good to hear the outlook of a non bandwagon NBA fan who also isn't a fan of the local team. You would definitely know your team much better than I would, but I don't think Bargnani is nearly as bad as you make him out to be. I see him as a stretch 4 who can't defend. You can get away with that in the NBA as long as you have good defenders around him (which the raptors don't) especially at the center position. The good think about Bargnani is he can get you 20+ a night on a consistent basis. Still though...stretch 4s w/ no defense are always more attractive when they aren't on your team (Jamison). I do agree that Calderon has higher trade value under the current CBA...but I doubt either of those guys will have much of a trade value with the new CBA.

I think you give Bosh way too much credit. Bosh is a good player on a lousy team...but so was Andray Blatche in 2009-2010. Bosh has been fully exposed in Miami for the soft/no defense/finesse type player he is. I definitely wouldn't want him on my team! I can't see see anyone other than Dwade being the MVP of the finals on that Heat team. The Heat will go as far as Dwade can carry them...LeBron and Bosh will both end up crumbling in the end.

The hard cap would definitely hurt a lot of team if the new CBA didn't have the Allan Houson rule or the tiered cap reduction...but it likely will have both. If teams are able to dump 20 million a year contracts and then have 3 years to get under the hard cap...it is much more manageable....still might be tough for the Lakers to get under...but they away seem to figure out something. As far as the other teams with high cap numbers right now:

Dallas has lots of money coming off the books this year with Chandler and Butler expiring; Orlando would use the Allan Houston rule on Gil and DHoward will likely not re-sign; Boston has the majority of their money coming off the books in 2012 (KG & Allen); Utah is shedding AK47's contract; Houston - Yao.....so as you can see...most of these teams will have no problem complying with the new proposed CBA hard cap plan. No idea how the Lakers will pull it off.

***another side note I think I failed to bring up before....in the new CBA proposal, current salaries would be scaled back as the cap was scaled back. That is the part that is going to be tough to sell to guys like Kobe Bryant who are scheduled to make over 80 million the next three years.

Actually Bargnani is worse than his numbers indicate. He is not consistent at all, going for 30 one night then the next 8 games he struggles to get 12. It's not hard to get 30 when your team constantly sets 2 screens to get you the ball. Yeah they do that for Kobe & Lebron but the difference is they need the two screens because they are either being double teamed or the D switches to them too fast, but they need to do that Andrea because he is too slow and stupid to find an open spot on the floor. The only time you see him in an open spot is either behind the 3 pt line or close to it, after his teammate has penetrated the lane and Andrea finds himself in a void where the defenders have run to the rim, something you will never catch Andrea doing.

The worst thing about Andrea does not show up in the stats, he makes others around him worse defenders. I call it the "why should I ?" effect, where other players on his team who at one point in time played good defense, start slacking off because they see the guy who is getting the most amount of minutes and most number of plays drawn up for him plays no defense. Derozan looked like he wanted to D up when he first got here, but that is all gone now. Andrea's defense is so bad that even when he scores 30pts plus, he usually has a -10 rating in +/-, meaning that even when he is "on" he does not really help his team win. I can't count the times I have seen Andrea call for a ball after his teammate has passed him and is now covered by defenders. This demonstrates not only how low his basketball IQ is, but also his general IQ; how do you expect your teammate to pass you the ball when he is driving to the hoop, has his back to you and 2 defenders in between you and him and all you do is put you hand up and not even call for the ball? Oh and this usually happens with 5 ticks or less let on the shot clock after Andrea's first move did not work and he just passes the ball to the closes man he sees.

As for the fact all he needs is a center that is bull. He needs to be a 6th man at best, a guy who can come off the bench and score a few garbage points. You cannot cover his defensive laps even if you had a team of Derrick Rose, Matt Barnes, Ron Artest, Andrea and Dwight Howard, he is that bad.

Andrea is a scorer and not even a good one at that. Defense wins championships, so the best Andrea can hope for is to pair with a sweet shooting guard and become this generations Kiki & Alex English from the Nuggets in the early 80's, score a ton of points but not win a thing.