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Offshore Outsourcing.....Just good business or unpatriotic?


@SkinsGoldPants

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This topic has come up in my world a few times recently. A former company I used to work at has broken over 80% in regards of outsourcing their IT Dept offshore. The argument was that its cheaper for the business. Even though turn-around time is slower with the time difference, and it takes more attempts to get something right because the offshore labor doesn't have a specific industry background (Biotech). Its gotten so crazy that there was a director fired from the IT team because he was funneling work back to his home country through a 3rd party and to family members. Basically telling them they had to hire his relatives back home and in return they would get more business from him.

So, in this politically charged climate, I am curious why this isn't a big topic. Especially when it comes to debt and taxes. Seems the Patriotic thing to do would be proudly hire Americans/People physically living here and advertise that you do.

If an American say would get $1 an hour for this work (I'm just using a dollar as a number to grab on to), and the offshore guy gets somewhere between 30-70 cents an hour, should there be any kind of adjustment to collect taxes on that lower paid worker? Feels like if an American based company was taxed on that offshore worker to make it actually even or a couple bucks cheaper to hire somebody actually living in the United States, that wouldn't be such an awful thing.

I get the flip side saying that hurts capitalism, and if a corporation can find cheaper labor elsewhere, good for them.

But in the end, does it still hurt our economy as a whole because fewer employed here means those people aren't spending money as much? They aren't putting money into private 401K's and paying for their private company insurance if they aren't employed. Also, it would mean that more employed are paying taxes instead of receiving unemployment. Yes, a call center being build in Detroit would cost more than outsourcing to one overseas. I get that.

Am I crazy wrong to wonder about this?

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The thing I would look into is working conditions of these places we outsource to. If they're working in inhospitable conditions, then perhaps we should set standards that outsourced workers must be treated to be allowed American business. That way we're not financing sweat-shops, and without sweat-shops driving down the price, that makes the American cost more competitive.

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Depends on the situation. I've been to plants in Juarez that my American friends made a lot of money off of. That money, at least in part, went back into my community as they expanded their farm which uses a lot of local merchants too.

I think if you can look at the specifics of each case it should be apparent which are just purely using people. The, albeit few, I have talked to in Juarez (even with the drug wars they're still working) like them and the pay, while pitiful in our perspective, is very good for them.

Very difficult in the moral aspect I agree.

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I work for a large internet company who outsourced large chunks of work starting in 2004. In the past six months, I've seen us start to pull jobs back to the US based on quality of work. Especially much of the call center work, where the language barrier is always an issue. We felt it was effecting the product, and although US based workers cost more, we had to "on-shore" the jobs if we wanted to turn around the perception of shoddy quality. It was good to see the free market work as it should - a business tried to cut cost, realized it was effecting the product, and course corrected.

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Unless they are a monopoly, markets dictate what labor to choose so it really isn't a question of patriotism. If I'm competing with another firm and they use a more efficient labor source by hiring off shore workers then they will be able to either under cut my prices or provide a better product/service. I can either match them and hopefully be able to have a competitive price/quality or I will go out of business. Its not that this is a good choice, its the only one that lets you survive as a business.

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To be honest, it's about increasing the bottom line over any concerns about human beings, either here or overseas. We've lost mega jobs due to offshoring and I think it's an abominable practice. What we needed to do was increase import tariffs so that imported products were the same price as products made in the USA. Because so many US companies went the multinational route, they went where labor was cheaper. Also, there are companies out there that employ children too. So the labor practices are poor in offshoring.

Disclaimer: I'm close to this issue because my son-in-law trained some folks in India and was promptly fired (there's just no other nicey nice word really) and was on unemployment for almost 2 years because he got Zero response to his resumes. He now makes $9/hour as a temp when he was making $55K before in salary. And we talk about creating more jobs here, jobs that will eventually offshored.

Some solutions: 1) Increase import tariffs on products, even those produced by US companies, and 2) Increase taxes on companies that offshore jobs and firing Americans.

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I guess an argument could be that Nike would never find the number of workers they need to keep making shoes. I get that if they aren't physically here, then they aren't depending on our hospitals or police, etc and that is what makes them different than illegal's who come to the US to work. I guess I am just surprised that there isn't a politician or political group who's railing on the topic. Especially with unemployment so high.

You know people care about it, or why would foreign car companies do adds about building their products in the USA with American workers?

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Businesses owe it to share holders to find the most efficient and profitable way to run their business. In some cases, yes, *maybe* it is an avenue to 'cut' because you're not very effective or efficient in other areas of your business. But to say that outsourcing is an outright make-up for poor business practices is I think too broad of a stroke. In some cases it might make business sense.

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The thing I would look into is working conditions of these places we outsource to. If they're working in inhospitable conditions, then perhaps we should set standards that outsourced workers must be treated to be allowed American business. That way we're not financing sweat-shops, and without sweat-shops driving down the price, that makes the American cost more competitive.

Which would result in the termination of jobs to accommodate higher wages/increased operating costs. These regulations would hurt the poor you hope to help simply so we can feel less guilty about the kid making our sneakers. I think all Americans should feel some remorse over the poor in the world, but I think we should ask ourselves what some of these people's live would be like without a job in a country not nearly as developed as ours, with no social safety net to catch those that can't fend for themselves.

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Which would result in the termination of jobs to accommodate higher wages/increased operating costs. These regulations would hurt the poor you hope to help simply so we can feel less guilty about the kid making our sneakers. I think all Americans should feel some remorse over the poor in the world, but I think we should ask ourselves what some of these people's live would be like without a job in a country not nearly as developed as ours, with no social safety net to catch those that can't fend for themselves.

The social safety net in the US is being dismantled at a rapid pace by the GOP and Democrats who are moving to the "center" (I term it far right if one looks at it from the 60s).

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The social safety net in the US is being dismantled at a rapid pace by the GOP and Democrats who are moving to the "center" (I term it far right if one looks at it from the 60s).

Would you mind explaining this a bit more? How specifically, what issues?

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Would you mind explaining this a bit more? How specifically, what issues?

I will explain one example.

Bachelor's Degree

worked since I 16

Promotion after promotion to prove I am not a spare

craniotomy and dx with MS including optic neuritis and chronic extreme fatigue

Just got denied SSDI (after my pension board had approved me and I have 5 doctors who went to bat for me)

I'll hire a lawyer now and win and he'll get half

Sucks

Any liberal democrat from the 60's would be appalled - I'm the guy that paid a lot of money into that ****ing system and their ****ing callling me a ****ing liar **** /rant

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I will explain one example.

Bachelor's Degree

worked since I 16

Promotion after promotion to prove I am not a spare

craniotomy and dx with MS including optic neuritis and chronic extreme fatigue

Just got denied SSDI (after my pension board had approved me and I have 5 doctors who went to bat for me)

I'll hire a lawyer now and win and he'll get half

Sucks

Any liberal democrat from the 60's would be appalled - I'm the guy that paid a lot of money into that ****ing system and their ****ing callling me a ****ing liar **** /rant

I agree that is a ****ty situation, I'm sorry. Personally I don't agree with you ever having to pay that money into the system.

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Gee, where to start? How about Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, for profit healthcare and the whole health insurance industry, unions, welfare for those who really need it, outsourcing jobs, the Citizens United decision, unemployment benefits, employment benefits? That's just a start. If not directly affecting the safety net, they are favoring non-human entities like corporations over living, breating human beings.

And they purport to be Christians.

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A little while ago somebody posted an insightful video about the US economic model that was in place for the most part of the 20th century... taxing the **** out of high earners, growing the middle class... that middle class buys things, the economy grows like crazy, and the cycle goes on.

For the record, two years of the highest income disparity in the US were the year before the Great Depression, and the year before the Great Recession... looks like we're not changing direction though, so buckle up and hang on.

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Gee, where to start? How about Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, for profit healthcare and the whole health insurance industry, unions, welfare for those who really need it, outsourcing jobs, the Citizens United decision, unemployment benefits, employment benefits? That's just a start. If not directly affecting the safety net, they are favoring non-human entities like corporations over living, breating human beings.

And they purport to be Christians.

I thought there was a separation of Church and state. Or is that only when those same Christians want people to pray?
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