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Rollingstone.com: The Kill Team, How U.S. soldiers in Afghanistan murdered innocent civilians and mutilated their corpses – and how their officers failed to stop them.


killerbee99

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This story was out there in the press way before Der Spiegel or RS started making waves about it. The BBC was talking about it in December, Army Times did a long piece in about the problems within 5/2 back in (I think) January of last year while the Brigade was still there. This isn't muck raking...this isn't investigative journalism...it's agenda driven "reporting" that is as much propaganda for the terrorists as it is for the anti-war folks that populate our civilian press ranks. The 5/2 guys have gift wrapped them a nice big hunk of red meat to sink their teeth into right as we start looking at drawing troops down. It's irresponsible.

God forbid we have someone try to interview the people involved, get the documents from the military that are being withheld, and do an indepth story after the trials are over. Rolling Stone should have just posted the Army's public statements about the incident, added a soundbyte from a soldier saying "we aren't all like that" and been done with it.

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Wow, a military blogger is offended by a story exposing wrongdoing by the military and in particular, one of his buddies. Say it isn't so. That never happens!

The fact that this blogger didn't know what was going on doesn't mean squat, and of course, he is completely missing the point, just like you are.

No one is saying that all of our soldiers are psychopaths. We are saying that something is wrong when there are this many open clues and no one does squat except cover their own azzes.

It's funny, Yon declares the article to be BS without really disputing much. He complains that the Motorcycle Kill incident was used unfairly in context, and I agree with that and also the "deaf, retarded old man" incident. The coverup was wrong and trading videos of these incidents is probably poor behavior, but these are comparatively minor transgressions and I was puzzled why they were even included. Yon uses this to trash the entire story, implying that he could say much more but somehow it isn't worth it. He engages in a bit of circular reasoning, declaring that since he had self-described "incredible access" to the soldiers and didn't learn about the killings this meant only a tiny few knew about it. Maybe, or just perhaps there's zero chance the men in uniform would discuss this with a working journalist? He praises the fact that it was a soldier's report that spurred the military into action. But the commanders were notified multiple times previously and didn't follow through. Even the soldier who turned them in only did so after they killers beat him to a pulp, and then only after the medics discovered his injuries and he had to explain how they occurred.
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It's funny, Yon declares the article to be BS without really disputing much. He complains that the Motorcycle Kill incident was used unfairly in context, and I agree with that and also the "deaf, retarded old man" incident. The coverup was wrong and trading videos of these incidents is probably poor behavior, but these are comparatively minor transgressions and I was puzzled why they were even included. Yon uses this to trash the entire story, implying that he could say much more but somehow it isn't worth it. He engages in a bit of circular reasoning, declaring that since he had self-described "incredible access" to the soldiers and didn't learn about the killings this meant only a tiny few knew about it. Maybe, or just perhaps there's zero chance the men in uniform would discuss this with a working journalist? He praises the fact that it was a soldier's report that spurred the military into action. But the commanders were notified multiple times previously and didn't follow through. Even the soldier who turned them in only did so after they killers beat him to a pulp, and then only after the medics discovered his injuries and he had to explain how they occurred.

Why do you hate American and want the terrorists to win?

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Yes, they are investigating now. After the :pooh: hit the fan.

I know you like to be the conservative contrarian, but did you even read the same article I did?

.

So formal charges filed within 6 months of the first killing during a damn war is slow to you?

How fast do ya'll work in civilian land?...want to put any soldiers involved in questionable shootings on administrative leave?

The article is a POS,and I never deflected...if you don't grasp how a senior NCO being involved slows down or obstructs investigating things you are beyond help.

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So formal charges filed within 6 months of the first killing during a damn war is slow to you?

How fast do ya'll work in civilian land?...want to put any soldiers involved in questionable shootings on administrative leave?

The article is a POS,and I never deflected...if you don't grasp how a senior NCO being involved slows down or obstructs investigating things you are beyond help.

For the third time, I am not talking about the formal investigation, once it started.

I am talking about multiple officers, NCOs, soldiers and even stateside civilians seeing and hearing all sorts of information about a hideous problem in that platoon and doing absolutely nothing about it except lying low. Was it cowardice? Laziness? Incompetence? Indifference toward the worthless Hajis? I don't know. But this NEVER should have gone on as long as it did.

And yes you are deflecting. That's what you do around here. You could no more stop deflecting than you could stop breathing.

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Obviously a very sad and anger provoking article. I, like several others here, am particularly concerned about how long it took to stop this once it started. I think that in addition to the justice that the people involved have to face, the most important thing we can do is to try to identify ways to make this less likely in the future. The systems for addressing concerns about innocent people getting hurt need to be seriously looked at.

One of the things that caught my eye in the story was the series of events that happened before Gibbs got there. From the story -

-------

“By the time Gibbs arrived, morale in the Stryker Brigade had hit rock bottom…. The Taliban had forced the Strykers off the roads simply by increasing the size and explosive force of their IEDs, and the brigade had suffered terrible casualties; one battalion had lost more soldiers in action than any since the start of the war. Gibbs, in fact, had been brought in after a squad leader had his legs blown off by an IED.

The soldiers were bored and shellshocked and angry. They had been sent to Afghanistan as part of a new advance guard on a mission to track down the Taliban, but the enemy was nowhere to be found. "To be honest, I couldn't tell the difference between local nationals and combatants," one soldier later confessed. During the unit's first six months in Afghanistan, the Taliban evaded almost every patrol that 3rd Platoon sent out.”

-----

The reason this caught my eye was that there are a lot of similarities between the time leading up to these killings and some of the events that preceded the My Lai killings in Viet Nam. Prior to My Lai, several American troops in Charlie Company had been killed by snipers and there were a lot of casualties from mines, including some popular soldiers. The American troops had a lot of deaths and injuries, and were never able to identify or engage the enemy. The anger, hate, and frustration from these events set the stage for the horrific events that transpired.

In addition to trying to identify what traits might make soldiers a higher risk for crimes like this, I think we also need to look at what situations will put people at higher risk. Obviously there were some seriously psychopathic people that were part of this, but there are some situations that will put good people at higher risk of doing terrible things, or at least failing to stop them from happening.

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Obviously a very sad and anger provoking article. I, like several others here, am particularly concerned about how long it took to stop this once it started. I think that in addition to the justice that the people involved have to face, the most important thing we can do is to try to identify ways to make this less likely in the future. The systems for addressing concerns about innocent people getting hurt need to be seriously looked at.

One of the things that caught my eye in the story was the series of events that happened before Gibbs got there. From the story -

-------

“By the time Gibbs arrived, morale in the Stryker Brigade had hit rock bottom…. The Taliban had forced the Strykers off the roads simply by increasing the size and explosive force of their IEDs, and the brigade had suffered terrible casualties; one battalion had lost more soldiers in action than any since the start of the war. Gibbs, in fact, had been brought in after a squad leader had his legs blown off by an IED.

The soldiers were bored and shellshocked and angry. They had been sent to Afghanistan as part of a new advance guard on a mission to track down the Taliban, but the enemy was nowhere to be found. "To be honest, I couldn't tell the difference between local nationals and combatants," one soldier later confessed. During the unit's first six months in Afghanistan, the Taliban evaded almost every patrol that 3rd Platoon sent out.”

-----

The reason this caught my eye was that there are a lot of similarities between the time leading up to these killings and some of the events that preceded the My Lai killings in Viet Nam. Prior to My Lai, several American troops in Charlie Company had been killed by snipers and there were a lot of casualties from mines, including some popular soldiers. The American troops had a lot of deaths and injuries, and were never able to identify or engage the enemy. The anger, hate, and frustration from these events set the stage for the horrific events that transpired.

In addition to trying to identify what traits might make soldiers a higher risk for crimes like this, I think we also need to look at what situations will put people at higher risk. Obviously there were some seriously psychopathic people that were part of this, but there are some situations that will put good people at higher risk of doing terrible things, or at least failing to stop them from happening.

This is a very thoughtful post.

Nation building is hard. Defeating insurgencies is even harder. Soldiers are trained to fight the enemy, but what do you do when you can't find the damn enemy. So much easier to fight the Nazis and the Japanese, where there is an organized state to oppose and an organized army that can be identified.

I can't imagine how frustrating that must be for our soldiers.

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Obviously the stories/pictures are pretty disturbing I don't understand the video of the IED's? It looks to me like they did exactly what was stated, dropped the IEDs to look like civilians. That is pretty messed up if they really did run children over with the strykers. That is pretty disturbing if true.

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First of all Michael yon is not just any "blogger" he has spent more time in war zones than most of you have watching war on T.V. from the warm safety of your home so I would take his word over any sensationalized Rolling Stone article here is the link to his facebook page where it appears over 42000 people agree with him:

http://www.facebook.com/MichaelYonFanPage?sk=wall.

That said there was clearly a breakdown in the leadership of this Platoon sized element and as these individuals are proven guilty they will get the full measure of the UCMJ. Some promotions are automatic such as 1LT to CPT and 2LT to 1LT these promotions may have happened before someone with the integrity and fortitude to do right thing got involved I am positive that the leadership within this unit will be put on the hot seat and the right thing will be done....lets see if Rolling Stone reports that. Like or not your military is a reflection of society, this situation was the combination of some truly evil individuals and some very weak people who could not do the right thing as was the case in Iraq which was alluded to earlier...a PVT convinced NCO's and SPC's to participate in rape and multiple murders, was PVT Green evil yup and he was surrounded by a bunch of extremely weak leaders and peers, if you didn't know in the case in Iraq not only did it cost the lives of the Iraqi family but it also resulted in the death of three U.S. Soldiers two of which were tortured, killed, and there bodies bobby trapped. Guess what war is hell:(

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Good article on sensationalistic war stories, but it doesn't change the facts of the story. In fact, he doesn't argue that innocents weren't killed and that military superiors were slow to react to what they knew was happening. He only offers up some rationalization for the delay (incompetence in superiors that were supposed to oversee these soldiers) and an accusation that RS is saying that all soldiers are psychopaths (which the RS article never said). These are opinions that have no factual basis, rather they are an editorial characterization of the issue.

He then gets to his main thesis and spends the rest of the article criticizing the posting of dead body images they obtained. He correctly points out that some of the bodies are not related to the innocents that were killed, hence the accusation of war porn. I actually disagree with the sentiment (as that hides the brutality of war), but I respect his opinion on it. Again, he never refutes the facts of the original story.

In the end, this NPR editorial is just one man's opinion on the style of article and ethical dilemmas in reporting. It is not an attack on the content, just the style. In fact, his assertion of incompetence among military overseers might actually be more damning than saying they are unethical (our military goes from a bad batch of soldier and commanders in an isolated spot to an ignorant military force where brutality and war crimes are overlooked due to ignorance and incompetence). The facts of the original story still remain, but if you'd like to debate the merits of war porn, then the article is more relevant.

By the way, I thought PBS was a liberal rag... or so you said.

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I said PBS was a liberal rag WHEN ?

The facts on the case were established long ago in reputable papers,the gratuitous additions by RS are sensationalism worthy of FOX

But feel free to slander the superiors from your couch

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Rolling Stone jumped the shark about 15 years ago when they traded being a legit music mag into becoming another version of People magazine.

Since when has People had long stories about Afghanistan or Goldman Sachs?

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