The Racial Biases of Duke Hating

[rictus58]

The private university aspect has never entered my head. Not until it was mentioned in this thread.

As for Duke running a clean program as the article alleges...well...there's rumors to the contrary.

[MattFancy]

Nope, I just plain hate Duke. I'm a UNC fan so that's easy to do. But it has nothing to do with hating white players, Tyler Hansbrough is my favorite all-time!

[KDawg]

People hate Duke for several reasons.

Handchecking.

Lack of inside game.

Dirty play.

K's constant working of the refs -- no other prominent coach does this as badly as him

The fact that they get a disproportionate amount of bad calls go their way...thank God I'm not a Clemson fan.

Their players are often douches (see: Reddick, Laetner, Hurley, Henderson...)

Their players rarely achieve anything resembling NBA success due to lack of fundamental coaching at the college level

Their fans, and students, are elitist douches (for the most part).

Their best players are white

Edited it for you. You forgot the biggest reason.

[Hitman21ST]

People hate Duke for several reasons.

Handchecking. - ...

Lack of inside game. - Carlos Boozer, Shelden Williams, Josh McRoberts, and the Plumlees would like to disagree

Dirty play. - What do they do that's dirty?

K's constant working of the refs -- no other prominent coach does this as badly as him

The fact that they get a disproportionate amount of bad calls go their way...thank God I'm not a Clemson fan. - Bad calls go both ways. Duke gets them, the other teams get them. It's just more noticeable with Duke because any time they get one, everyone and their mother points it out.

Their players are often douches (see: Reddick, Laetner, Hurley, Henderson...) - How exactly are they "douches"? Because they're ****y? Every team has those types of players

Their players rarely achieve anything resembling NBA success due to lack of fundamental coaching at the college level - Lack of fundamentals? Huh? K is one of the coaches that DOES teach fundamentals, and that's why he was selected as the Redeem Team's coach. Needed to get the pro players back to fundamentals

Their fans, and students, are elitist douches (for the most part). How are the Crazies "elitest douches"? They don't do anything that any other big time basketball school's student section does.

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

...though the well thought out response probably isn't helping his street cred.

The fact that he's ****ing about how a guy felt as an 18-year-old kid from the inner cities with an absent father probably hurts him more. Anyone who saw the documentary should know this is nonsense from Hill

[Predicto]

If you haven't read it, Grant Hill's response to Jalen Rose is excellent. I don't think there's a more stand-up guy in sports on and off the court.

The Quad: Grant Hill’s Response to Jalen Rose

I like Hill, but I think it is pretty clear that Rose was explaining how he felt when he was a chip on the shoulder 18 year old kid, two decades ago - not how he feels today. :whoknows:

[Hitman21ST]

...though the well thought out response probably isn't helping his street cred.

I don't think "street cred" is high on his list of Stuff to Worry About

[#98QBKiller]

Tyler Hansbrough is my favorite all-time!

:puke:

J/k, but I did meet him at Wrightsville Beach back when he was a sophomore I think? He was hanging out on the beach with two of his friends and they were shotgunning beers but the beach patrol didn't say **** to him because they were Carolina fans lol.

[Warhead36]

I don't hate their white players. I hate their obnoxious annoying douchebag players(Christian Laetner, Greg Paulus, JJ Redick, etc.). They just happen to be white.

[The Brave Little Toaster Oven]

Why? Because he always tore out the hearts of Terps fans? (Besides that last Duke/MD game at Cole)

because he was an overrated assclown

[MattFancy]

:puke:

J/k, but I did meet him at Wrightsville Beach back when he was a sophomore I think? He was hanging out on the beach with two of his friends and they were shotgunning beers but the beach patrol didn't say **** to him because they were Carolina fans lol.

Don't hate on Psycho T!! I remember that video of him his sophmore year I think doing a flip off a roof into a pool. He was crazy!

[Elessar78]

People hate Duke for several reasons.

Handchecking.

Lack of inside game.

Dirty play.

K's constant working of the refs -- no other prominent coach does this as badly as him

The fact that they get a disproportionate amount of bad calls go their way...thank God I'm not a Clemson fan.

Their players are often douches (see: Reddick, Laetner, Hurley, Henderson...)

Their players rarely achieve anything resembling NBA success due to lack of fundamental coaching at the college level

Their fans, and students, are elitist douches (for the most part).

Handchecking? If Duke is the only team that handchecks extensively I'll eat my hat.

Inside game? When they have guys like Laetnner, Elton Brand, Deng, Williams they go inside. Otherwise, they evolve to their strength.

They do seem to get calls. And this is coming from a Duke fan (my sister went there).

Who cares what they achieve in the NBA? They are COLLEGE players.

Elitism? Maybe you're just too common to appreciate good basketball.

Another aspect of the hate is because they've established "a standard". When you start saying that certain people, despite of talent still aren't quality enough to play for you—it breeds hatred. You don't think that Jalen Rose-type guys don't take offense to the fact that as good as they are, Duke still doesn't want 'em?

Add to that they change their style of play every year or every other year, they graduate players, they don't run a dirty program—it smacks of holier than thou and it's EXACTLY that: Good kids, Good coach, winning games, going to classes, graduating, an intolerance for pretty much everything wrong with college basketball. Yeah, there's A LOT to hate.

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

Another aspect of the hate is because they've established "a standard". When you start saying that certain people, despite of talent still aren't quality enough to play for you—it breeds hatred. You don't think that Jalen Rose-type guys don't take offense to the fact that as good as they are, Duke still doesn't want 'em?

Add to that they change their style of play every year or every other year, they graduate players, they don't run a dirty program—it smacks of holier than thou and it's EXACTLY that: Good kids, Good coach, winning games, going to classes, graduating, an intolerance for pretty much everything wrong with college basketball. Yeah, there's A LOT to hate.

The holier than thou **** is pretty aggravating too.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I think there is a racial element in hating Duke, but I'm not sure what it is or how to articulate it. It's a post-modernism thing perhaps.

In the 70s and 80s, it was seen that black athletes were taking over sports. And a lot of people had a problem with that. There is no doubt that part of the enduring legacy of the 1986 Celtics is that a) they were really really really good and their two best players were white and six of their best nine players were white.

White players and black players were labeled with stereotypes. Bird "worked harder" than anyone. Wilkins and Jordan were "athletically gifted."

At the beginning of Duke's run, they got the benefit of this "no one works harder" or "no one is smarter" nonsense. And they also had the benefit of beating UNLV and The Fab Five at Michigan - two teams that a white people thought were halfway houses.

At some point, though, this stereotype began to die a bit - everywhere except at Duke. I don't think Duke ever made a conscious decision to play up their whiteness, but they still often looked like something out of the 1950s (except when Brand and Magette were there - those dudes were gangster). Everything about Duke - from their white fans with their goofy cheers to the slapping the floor to the annoying white man hustle two guards they always seem to have - has become something like a self-parody. Add in the ESPN slobbering over them and it gets toxic.

It's entirely possible that people who hate Duke hate themselves for what they used to like about sports.

---------- Post added March-24th-2011 at 12:52 PM ----------

Yep. That's all it is.

If Stanford won as much as Duke does, people would hate Stanford the same way. Probably even more, because it is even more rich and elite than Duke is.

It's human nature to root againt the school where the kids pretty much have it made.

And we all root against this guy the same way (and he probably goes to Duke)...

I'm not sure of that. Stanford is hip in a way that Duke can never be.

It's actually good that we as a nation have a deep hatred for Duke. It's a school for rich white people that is not nearly as good academically as it pretends to be and that was built with tobacco money. It says something good about us as a people.

[Elessar78]

The holier than thou **** is pretty aggravating too.

Yeah, except THEY never say it. Everybody says it for them, for some reason.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I would submit BYU as the counter-point to this guy's argument. Does ANYONE hate BYU?

BYU is filled with Mormans. It's impossible for me to hate Mormans, because they actually ARE better people than I am. I think they are weird, and I'm looking forward to Stephen Jackson breaking Jimmer's nose with an elbow next year.

[Mooka]

The fact that he's ****ing about how a guy felt as an 18-year-old kid from the inner cities with an absent father probably hurts him more. Anyone who saw the documentary should know this is nonsense from Hill

If the Fab 5 gets to ***** then so does Grant Hill.

[Predicto]

Another aspect of the hate is because they've established "a standard". When you start saying that certain people, despite of talent still aren't quality enough to play for you—it breeds hatred. You don't think that Jalen Rose-type guys don't take offense to the fact that as good as they are, Duke still doesn't want 'em?

You know Jalen Rose felt that, acutely. He is a really intelligent, articulate guy who's father was an NBA star who abandoned him, and he grew up poor as hell in a single mom flat in inner city Detroit where he got a crap education. And he was bitterly jealous of privileged guys like Grant Hill, growing up with money and two parents and great schooling. Coach K would never recruit a guy like Rose, and Rose knew it, and it hurt. If I was in his shoes back then, I would have felt the same way. So would you.

People seem to be unable to view this thing in any more subtle terms than "thug vs. good guy." It is so much more complicated than that.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

You know Jalen Rose felt that, acutely. He is a really intelligent, articulate guy who's father was an NBA star who abandoned him, and he grew up poor as hell in a single mom flat in inner city Detroit where he got a crap education. And he was bitterly jealous of privileged guys like Grant Hill, growing up with money and two parents and great schooling. Coach K would never recruit a guy like Rose, and Rose knew it, and it hurt. If I was in his shoes back then, I would have felt the same way. So would you.

People seem to be unable to view this thing in any more subtle terms than "thug vs. good guy." It is so much more complicated than that.

Duke wanted Chris Webber. Just saying.

I also don't know if I buy this "We only take a certain type of player" bull****.

When Duke started to slip a bit in the mid 90s, Coach K all of a sudden was bringing in guys like Maggette and Brand - who didn't exactly come across as the scholar-athlete types. For whatever reason, it was perfectly fine to be one and done at Duke for a while.

[Predicto]

Duke wanted Chris Webber. Just saying.

They sure did. Because Chris Webber WAS Duke material just the same as Grant Hill, two parents, academically prepared at a private prep school, as much as he tried to hide it behind a facade of tough inner city gruff. Webber wasn't ghetto at all.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

They sure did. Because Chris Webber WAS Duke material just the same as Grant Hill, two parents, academically prepared at a private prep school, as much as he tried to hide it behind a facade of tough inner city gruff. Webber wasn't ghetto at all.

The implication of that is that:

A) "Ghetto" is a perfectly acceptable description of a human being and

Duke should not allow anything "Ghetto" to infiltrate it's Ivy walls.

The problem I have with that is that Jalen Rose may have been "ghetto." He was also extremely bright, extremely articulate, and a hell of a college basketball player. You can argue the same about pretty much everyone that John Thompson coached at Georgetown.

What you are suggesting is that it's not enough to be smart and good at basketball. You have to meet a certain stereotype in order to play at Duke.

[Popeman38]

s0upQDkY-pg

1) Duke fans act like Duke is god

2) ESPN slurps on Cameron Indoor

3) FLOPPING

4) Coach K

5) Steve Wojciechowski floor slap/flop/fake injuries

6) Greg Paulus

7) JJ Redick

[Forehead]

I mean, I root against Duke, but I don't actively hate them. Some of that may have to do with me not caring quite as much about college basketball as others, or not going to an ACC school, etc...

...unlike a good friend of mine who went to UVA. This guy admitted to myself and a few other friends that, despite being straight, he would willingly be caught in any number of homosexual acts with Mike Krzyzewski for the sole purpose of bringing him down and destroying his reputation. You can take that however you want, debate whether that sort of thing would or should bring a man down, but we all know how our society in general reacts to gays; it certainly wouldn't help Krzyzewski, not in public opinion or in recruiting.

But think about that for a minute. He hated Duke so much he would willingly go to that length just to destroy their coach, despite it being against his programmed nature. That's hatred.

[Predicto]

It's actually good that we as a nation have a deep hatred for Duke. It's a school for rich white people that is not nearly as good academically as it pretends to be.

Wait' date=' are we talking about Notre Dame now? Or Brown? Or Georgetown? Or Vanderbilt? Or NYU? Or Emory?

Duke is hardly alone in having an inflated academic reputation, but we don't hate those other places in the same way.

---------- Post added March-24th-2011 at 11:34 AM ----------

The implication of that is that:

A) "Ghetto" is a perfectly acceptable description of a human being and

Duke should not allow anything "Ghetto" to infiltrate it's Ivy walls.

The problem I have with that is that Jalen Rose may have been "ghetto." He was also extremely bright' date=' extremely articulate, and a hell of a college basketball player. You can argue the same about pretty much everyone that John Thompson coached at Georgetown.

What you are suggesting is that it's not enough to be smart and good at basketball. You have to meet a certain stereotype in order to play at Duke.[/quote']

Yes, that is kind of what I am suggesting. Coach K could recruit anyone he wants. He chooses only to recruit the safest choices possible.

[RunClintonRun26]

Handchecking. - ...

Lack of inside game. - Carlos Boozer, Shelden Williams, Josh McRoberts, and the Plumlees would like to disagree

Dirty play. - What do they do that's dirty?

K's constant working of the refs -- no other prominent coach does this as badly as him

The fact that they get a disproportionate amount of bad calls go their way...thank God I'm not a Clemson fan. - Bad calls go both ways. Duke gets them, the other teams get them. It's just more noticeable with Duke because any time they get one, everyone and their mother points it out.

Their players are often douches (see: Reddick, Laetner, Hurley, Henderson...) - How exactly are they "douches"? Because they're ****y? Every team has those types of players

Their players rarely achieve anything resembling NBA success due to lack of fundamental coaching at the college level - Lack of fundamentals? Huh? K is one of the coaches that DOES teach fundamentals, and that's why he was selected as the Redeem Team's coach. Needed to get the pro players back to fundamentals

Their fans, and students, are elitist douches (for the most part). How are the Crazies "elitest douches"? They don't do anything that any other big time basketball school's student section does.

Handchecking? If Duke is the only team that handchecks extensively I'll eat my hat.

Inside game? When they have guys like Laetnner, Elton Brand, Deng, Williams they go inside. Otherwise, they evolve to their strength.

They do seem to get calls. And this is coming from a Duke fan (my sister went there).

Who cares what they achieve in the NBA? They are COLLEGE players.

Elitism? Maybe you're just too common to appreciate good basketball.

Another aspect of the hate is because they've established "a standard". When you start saying that certain people, despite of talent still aren't quality enough to play for you—it breeds hatred. You don't think that Jalen Rose-type guys don't take offense to the fact that as good as they are, Duke still doesn't want 'em?

Add to that they change their style of play every year or every other year, they graduate players, they don't run a dirty program—it smacks of holier than thou and it's EXACTLY that: Good kids, Good coach, winning games, going to classes, graduating, an intolerance for pretty much everything wrong with college basketball. Yeah, there's A LOT to hate.

I hate Duke more than most, so I figured it'll be good for me to chime in on the issue:

1. Regarding handchecking - every team handchecks. That's basketball. I don't have any complaints there.

2. Lack of an inside game - while I do agree with your original point that Duke rarely has a reliable - or even serviceable - presence in the middle (save for a few instances here and there), I can't use that as a reason to hate them. If anything, I am glad they usually don't have that poewrful big man to get boards and intimidate . . . because it usually means more losses. Duke's style of play - which is to shoot an annoying amount of threes per game - doesn't call for a big man.

3. Dirty play - Duke goes get a way with a few elbows here and there.

4. Duke gets all the calls - there is actual statistical evidence to back this up. Moreoever, if you want something more qualitative, listen to Bilas (a Duke alum), who consistently calls Duke out during when they benefit from questionable calls. Hell, you can just watch Duke games (without the blue and white glasses) and see that they get away with almost anything on a basketball court. Check out Free Throw disparities for evidence. Additionally, I have NEVER seen a coach like coach K who spends as much time ****ing/working/intimidating the refs. He calls timeouts JUST to yell at the refs. And the ridiculous thing is, it works.

5. The players are often douches - this I wholeheartedly agree with. I think the writer of the article in the OP completely missed the ball on this one. He claims that Duke players rarely showboat or celebrate . . . Really? How often does Nolan Smith flex after shots? Or walks with a little limp in his step to look cool after getting an and 1 play? That's just this year. I can go on and on of instances where Duke's players - ironically lauded for their character - act like idiots (e.g. jay williams, carlos boozer, jj reddick, etc.).

6. Their players rarely achieve anything in the NBA - another point I fully agree with. And this relates to hate because it shows how ignorant and unjustified Duke's elitism is. Coach K has produced stellar pros like Laetner, Battier, Williams, Redick, Dunleavy, McRoberts, Dooling, Maggette, Sheldon Williams, etc. (sarcasm). I would consider Boozer a serviceable NBA player. Grant Hill is the only exception, as I think he would've been one of the best 60 players or so of all time if he could have stayed healthy during his younger years.

My biggest gripe with Duke is the one that makes me hate them the most - elitism. Fans of the program think they are the greatest program in the history of college basketball. Really? UCLA? UNC? I actually have a few family members who went to Duke and believe that coach K is the greatest coach in the HISTORY of sports! Lombardi? Gibbs? Bill Walsh? John Wooden? Dean Smith? Bobby Knight (K's mentor)? Phil Jackson? Sir Alex Ferguson? Bear Bryant? The list can go on and on. What also irks me about their fan base is that the majority of them know nothing about basketball. For example, of all those "cameron crazies" you see on t.v., how many of them went to high school basketball games? How many went to pro games as a fan? Very few. And yet, when they go to Duke, being a basketball fan is the cool thing to be . . . so naturally they jump on in and pretend they have always been passionate basketball fans. BS.

Another thing, their fans actually GET TOGETHER BEFORE GAMES AND PRACTICE CHANTS! AND THEY ALSO SEND OUT MASS TEXTS AND E-MAILS REGARDING SAID CHANTS! How nerdy is that? That's not passion. That's just being a douchebag.

You cannot consider yourself the cream of the crop, best program in the nation when prior to last year you made ONE elite 8 and final 4 since 2004. Coach K is a fantastic coach. But he also benefits from getting any McDonalds All American that he wants. I don't care how many wins he has. He will NEVER be better than Knight or Wooden.

And finally, I can't stand the media love they get for being a University of privileged people.