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Why are the Redskins called the Redskins? Is it because of William "Lone Star" Dietz?


Super Bowl XVII

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Of course with our name and symbol/decale/logo they have this correlation of our name being racists, but do you automatically think we should chage our name because of that? I don't, just change our logo thats it. Our logo has changed before but our name basically stayed the same. We could change our logo to something that has no correlation with Native Americans and then be done with the racists talk. But a name change should never be an option. I will always favor a logo change rather then a name change.

How about a redskin peanut? lol

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If a certain demographic, or just enough whiny PC-ers, really don't want to be represented, fine. Change our name to Explorers, Pioneers, Colonials, something along those lines.

Even Warriors would work, just make our logo a picture with three modern warriors in it, a soldier, sailor, and airman. Absolutely no references to Indians in any way shape form, though.

Probably ought to change our colors to something "non-Indian". Say that digital camouflage.

Done!

(I hope this never happens.)

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I know Brian Mitchell mentioned on that Chad Dukes show filling in for LaVar about Dan taking issue with anti semitic stuff from a paper (wash post) but ok with the team name being just as bad. As I've always said the team name doesn't offend me personally but I can see how it could offend some. If it stays the same I'm fine, if it changes, I'm fine. So long as we keep the colors, fight song, and native american association ie, arrowhead, feathers, etc. It's cool.

I however do hate the name change from the Bullets to the Wizards. It's cool they will at the very least return to using red white and blue over that teal and orange looking crap.

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The term redskins was what the Europeans often called the warriors in an American Indian war party. GPM wanted to preserve the uniforms, logo and any marketing he had going for him. Could have called them the Indians but that was the name for the Cleveland team and would have lost the marketing connection with a baseball team, could have changed the name completely (say to the Red Sox) but then he'd have had to come up with a new logo and a new marketing program for a business in the red also, he may have already been considering a big move.

Nice try....but wrong.

For about the umpteenth time on this message board, here is the most well documented and researched effort of where the term "redskin" came from. It was research conducted by Ives Goddard, a senior linguist with the Smithsonian Institution who specialized in American Indian languages and dialects. The entire research document can be found at http://anthropology.si.edu/goddard/redskin.pdf

It is rather long (20 pages) and is an academic research article that includes pages of footnotes and is quite laborious to read through; so let me post some key quotes from his research article.

But the actual origin of the word is entirely benign and reflects more positive aspects of relations between Indians and whites. It emerged at a specific time in history among a small group of men linked by joint activities that provided the context that brought it forth.
It is clear from the earliest citations that redskin was regarded as an Indian expression. It was at first used only to translate what Indians said or as a consciously adopted Indian turn

of phrase employed in formally addressing Indians.

The word redskin reflects a genuine Native American idiom that was used in several languages, where it grew out of an earlier established and more widespread use of “red” and “white” as racial labels. This terminology was developed by Native Americans to label categories of the new ethnic and political reality they confronted with

the coming of the Europeans.

When Black Thunder wanted to refer inclusively to all the assembled tribes and to both the Americans and the French, he said “red skins and white skins.” When Big Elk told Clark how impressed he had been by the obsequies for Black Buffalo, at which, surely for the first time, an Omaha principal chief had given a funeral oration for his Teton counterpart, he availed himself of the inclusive term “red skin”

as an expression of solidarity.

Bottom line...."redskin" is an American Indian/Native American term adopted by the "white man". Chiefs often used it to describe or refer to all Indians. Remember, Indians were made up of many different tribes and Indian nations and had different languages and dialects. The term "redskin" was simply a way to describe the different races.

NO disparaging meaning was applied to this word until the white man became so PC minded in the late 1900s. I can also provide URLs to two public opinion polls clearly showing that the name is not offensive to American Indians....only to the guilty liberal white men out there...OK, that last comment was entirely mine....but it really is NOT offensive to American Indians because they understand it came from their ancestors....not Hollywood.

As to why Marshal decided to choose the term "redskins" to name his football team, no one has proven its origins. The move to Fenway park is the most logical because Marshal could no longer use the "Braves" name. As someone else has already pointed out, football teams sharing stadiums with a baseball team often adopted the baseball team's name for marketing reasons. The Dietz connection is not logical to me because the Redskins started using an American Indian name (Braves) before Dietz was signed to coach the team. It was logical for Marshal to continue using an Indian reference to his team but choosing "Redskins" because of Dietz seems unlikely to me....but continuing an Indian reference with an Indian coach certainly probably made for good marketing back then.

The word "Redskins" was chosen at its time to honor the American Indian who was actually quite well respected at that time in our history.

For those offended by the name....you should be demanding that the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People and the Negro College Fund should immediately be changed because they are far more offensive than our team name.

Those offended by the term "Redskins" do not know the origin of the word and have allowed themselves to be brainwashed by a liberal media who likes to make the "white man" ashamed of all the naughty things they have done throughout history. "Redskins" is a proud name honoring great people with great traditions who were here before the white European settlers. BANISH the PC!!

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Those offended by the term "Redskins" do not know the origin of the word and have allowed themselves to be brainwashed by a liberal media who likes to make the "white man" ashamed of all the naughty things they have done throughout history. "Redskins" is a proud name honoring great people with great traditions who were here before the white European settlers. BANISH the PC!!

i have found this to be true. makes me sound a bit like glen beck or lumbaugh when i say it, but in this case, it appears to be quite true.

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Why is it so important that we change the name of the Redskins when no other team that has an indian name is asked to do the very same thing. Florida State, Cleveland, Atlanta, San Diego State, and the many other teams have these type names. The name hasn't changed the way we treat each other or treat Native Americans? The thing that bothers me is that who is offended? Is Redskins a derogatory word against Native Americans? or is it a way for someone to get rich? This has been the name for almost 80 years and now people say it is a racist team name. Do you think that they will change the name of the Redskins after that much history? That is like asking the Chicago Bears to change their name because someone thinks it is offensive to Bears in the Wildlife. It just won't happen.

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"George Preston Marshall’s granddaughter wrote an op-ed to the “Washington Post” some years ago in which she stated that Marshall renamed the team in honor of Dietz (and, possibly, of the four Haskell players Dietz brought with him)."

Tom Benjey

Author of Keep A-goin’: the life of Lone Star Dietz

http://www.tuxedo-press.com/

Here is the Washington Post article that is mentioned above:

Copyright The Washington Post Company Sep 27, 1987

There seem to be as many stories about how the Washington Redskins got their name as there are loyal fans. Some say its origins are racist; others contend they were named to honor the brave patriots of the Boston Tea Party who dressed up as Indians and threw bales of tea into Boston Harbor.

Here's the real story:

George Preston Marshall and M. Dorland "Larry" Doyle were a couple of playboys on the town at New York's swankiest nightclub during the '30s, El Morocco. While they were swilling champagne, New York's mayor, Jimmy Walker, walked over to their table and sat down. He bragged about the city's magnificent Giants team and invited the two to attend a football game the next day.

In no mood to argue, Marshall and Doyle agreed to the mayor's offer of a limousine ride to the Polo Grounds. With a police escort and sirens piercing the fog of their hangovers, they were whisked off.

While watching the game, a friend of Walker told them they could buy an NFL franchise for a mere $2,500. Caught up in the game's excitement,they seized the opportunity, little realizing that it would cost them a good deal more to put a team together.

Their original syndicate consisted of Marshall, Doyle, Vincent Bendix and Jay O'Brian. Marshall, owner of a chain of successful laundries in Wash-ington, was made president-his Palace Laundries could wash the team's uniforms for free, after all. And so on July 9, 1932, the NFL awarded them a franchise.

The co-owners decided they would launch the team in Boston because they knew a judge there, and the supposition was that he could prove useful if they ever needed help with city hall. Soon thereafter Doyle, Bendix and O'Brian dropped out, leaving Marshall sole owner in their first year.

They began that year as the Boston Braves, playing at Braves Field, and using the name of the baseball team, as was the custom at other stadiums. But when Marshall moved his football Braves over to Fenway Park in 1933, the baseball Braves strenuously objected to his continuing to use the name "Braves," since they were no longer playing in Braves Field. Marshall had to change the name of his young club.

There have been stories from time to time that Marshall had Indian blood and so changed the name to the Redskins. But there is no evidence of Indian ancestry. Fact is, he chose the name because he had always been an admirer of the American Indian and because one of the team's coaches, "Lone Star" Dietz, was himself an American Indian.

Marshall organized the promotion of his team with the same savvy he used to build his laundry empire. His Palace Laundries, which provided the backing for his football hobby, were known for their aesthetic qualities, especially the color scheme of royal blue and gold, which was used in all the stores. Instead of windows stacked with bundles of laundry, all paraphernalia was concealed in the rear, and the windows were chastely decorated with a vase filled with gold leaves, flowers or wheat sprays, depending on the season.

Marshall's approach to promoting the Redskins was to organize a 100-piece band, dressed in maroon and khaki and feathered headdresses. The band was made up of talented musicians who played for the privilege of seeing the game. This beat the ticket price of $1.50 per game, $9 per season of six games.

In Boston, the fans were considerably less enthusiastic about their pro football team. Content to watch Harvard do battle with the other Ivy League teams, attendance was weak, and the Boston Redskins began losing money, despite winning the league championship. On the advice of Marshall's wife, who sensed that Washingtonians, many of them displaced residents from around the country, would prove better fans, the team was moved to the nation's capital, and so became the Washington Redskins.

Another of Marshall's pioneering efforts was the first NFL team fight song. With music by Barnee Breeskin and lyrics by his wife, Corinne, "Hail to the Redskins" was born and continues to rally the fans' spirit for their brave football warriors.

These are the incidents that fulfilled the destiny of George Preston Marshall to make the Redskins the true "Sons of Washington."

-Jordan Harrison Price is the granddaughter of the late George Preston Marshall and lives in Alexandria.

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Here's the real story:

Thanks for researching this SB. Great read.

My favorite part...

Marshall's approach to promoting the Redskins was to organize a 100-piece band. The band was made up of talented musicians who played for the privilege of seeing the game. This beat the ticket price of $1.50 per game, $9 per season of six games..

So for the price of a beer w/ a $1 tip at FedEx Field today, one could have bought STs to see the Redskins play six games at Fenway Park.

I wish the band were still 100 pieces large.

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They changed the name from the Braves so it wouldn't be confused with the baseball team.

---------- Post added March-22nd-2011 at 08:37 AM ----------

I agree 100%

---------- Post added March-22nd-2011 at 08:41 AM ----------

Personally, I agree that the name probably coincides with the team's move to a new stadium and appeasing the Red Sox organization. But, has anyone ever thought that the term Redskins, "might", IN PART, have something to do with the color of the team's jersey's? Shirts-vs-Skins? NO pun intended and I know that term wasn't in use at the time!

Many think the term originated from red clay and red paint being used in war and ceremonial times to turn the skin red. A badge of honor so to speak. That;'s when they were called Redskins. It has been mistakenly deemed "racist" Why, after 75+ years is it all of a sudden insensitive? Ignorance on the part of the people who don't know or understand what it means. Is it really used as a derogatory term? Do you hear people being called that in a mean way out of spite? Never in my life have I heard the word used in a negative fashion. People look at the word itself and make an ignorant assumption

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I've never thought the name was racist.

People give 'Skins fans crap for it just to rile them up. When they actually convince a 'Skins fan that the term is racist, they take it and run with it. Like, "hey, I've figured it all out. I got one fan to understand how racist the name is so now I shall campaign against it!"

Where's the outrage over Notre Dame? Isn't "Notre Dame" french? Where'd they get "Fighting Irish" from? And what's with the mascot? (I'm part Irish and in no way offended, just pointing this out)

Where's the outrage over the Buffalo Bills? The team is named after "Buffalo Bill" Cody, who killed over 4,000 American Bison for a railroad contract. People are upset over Vick, but this guy killed 4,000 Bison. (Again, I'm not comparing Vick or Buffalo Bill here. In fact, I'm not even saying Buffalo Bill did anything wrong, just saying that if people are so PC, there should surely be some outrage here).

There's a lot to be "PC" about in sports. People pick our team because its easiest.

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A badge of honor so to speak. It has been mistakenly deemed "racist"

The same argument has been made for this.

[ATTACH]45259[/ATTACH]

Another American symbol of pride for more than 100 years before people started to figure out that it wasn't such a good idea anymore.

Why, after 75+ years is it all of a sudden insensitive?

Because the general public knows more today than it did in the 1930s. We've evolved.

Ignorance on the part of the people who don't know or understand what it means.

The meaning is open for inturpretation based on the theories we've seen floated in this thread. I don't believe the name or logo were intended to be hateful or harmful, but the tides of evolution have turned against the good intentions to honor and celebrate the Native Americans via sports mascots.

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I don't believe the name or logo were intended to be hateful or harmful, but the tides of evolution have turned against the good intentions to honor and celebrate the Natives Americans via sports mascots.

This line makes little to no sense to me. You admit that you believe it was good intention and that we're honoring and celebrating the Native Americans via the mascot... But because "evolution" (or modern day idiocy) says honoring someone is wrong you want to change the name?

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The same argument has been made for this.

[ATTACH]45257[/ATTACH]

Another American symbol of pride for more than 100 years before people started to figure out that it wasn't such a good idea anymore.

Because the general public knows more today than it did in the 1930s. We've evolved.

The meaning is open for inturpretation based on the theories we've seen floated in this thread. I don't believe the name or logo were intended to be hateful or harmful, but the tides of evolution have turned against the good intentions to honor and celebrate the Natives Americans via sports mascots.

Really? Have you ever heard that word used in a derogatory sense? I have never heard it used negatively. I've never heard anyone say they've heard it used as a "slur"

so, let's start a trend: It's not a slur. Now that we know the meaning we can rest easy that it the origin refered to the red clay and red paint indians would put on their skin for war/ceremonies. A badge of honor.

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Really? Have you ever heard that word used in a derogatory sense?

The only time was in the film Flags of Our Fathers. The scene took place during WWII when a superior military official called Ira Hayes a "dumb Redskin" to his face. It wasn't intended to be honorary since Hayes was pure Native American and of inferior rank.

To be fair, the script was written in the 2000s, although the film focused on the historical inaccuracies of the governments recording of the events that took place at the battle of Iwo Jima. Who knows what was really said to Hayes, but I doubt it was nice.

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Why is it so important that we change the name of the Redskins when no other team that has an indian name is asked to do the very same thing. Florida State, Cleveland, Atlanta, San Diego State, and the many other teams have these type names.

Context matters, and ours (and Florida State's) use of imagery is much more positive than say...this:

cleveland_indians_logo1.gif

I'm a Braves fan, but a stadium full of people with foam tomahawks doing the chop and chant is or should be (objectively) more offensive than using a name that might have had a racist connotation 100 years ago but doesn't now. I have never in my life heard someone use "redskin" as an epithet.

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You don't think we'd lose our identity with a change? With the name "Redskins" being associated with this franchise for the last 78 years, and all 74 in Washington, that's a heck of lineage to suddenly re-brand. Ask most Americans about Washington, and outside of the President I'm betting the Redskins would be a very popular reply. It seem's to me to re-brand and move away from the name you've built everything on for the past 78 years, for the sake of appeasing a minority of American Indians who happen to take offense; is being prejudiced to the majority who associate the name with one of the Country's longest standing sports franchises.

Each to their own prerogative, but I'll stick with the ol' adage "If it aint' broke, don't fix it."

Hail.

Precisely. I'm not a big Snyder fan, but I will give him credit for telling the political correctness wackos to stick it where the sun don't shine. You don't change the name of Ford Motor Company. You don't change the name of Coca Cola. You don't change the name of WalMart. And you don't change the name of the Washington Redskins...........................

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The only time was in the film Flags of Our Fathers. The scene took place during WWII when a superior military official called Ira Hayes a "dumb Redskin" to his face. It wasn't intended to honorary since Hayes was pure Native American and an inferior in rank.

To be fair, the script was written in the 2000s, although the film focused on the historical inaccuracies of the governments recording of the events that took place at the battle of Iwo Jima. Who knows what was really said to Hayes, but I doubt it nice.

Never believe anything you see or hear in a Hollywood movie; even when it is supposed to be based on historical fact. Writers mess with the details all the time. A good example...my wife and I are netflixing an old critically acclaimed for accuracy HBO show called Deadwood. The series is about an old gold mining camp in the Black Hills (think Custer's Last Stand). Anyway, about every other line uses modern curse words that I had a hard time believing were that common even in the old west. After listening to the executive producer's dialogue during the opening episode, he admitted that they used modern swear words for effect.He said no one would pay attention to "dag nabbit" and "gosh darn".

Bottom line is Native Americans in two public opinion polls have no problem with the word "redskins" because they know their own history. It's dumb "evolved" (see someone else's post" white people who get brainwashed by Hollywood and media thinking that is real history and the truth. Not enough people these days question what they see and hear. We're all becoming a bunch of twitterers with no ability to think for ourselves anymore. Too many people think everything they see/read on the web and twitter is the truth. It is embarrasing what our society has "evolved" into.

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The same argument has been made for this.

[ATTACH]45259[/ATTACH]

Another American symbol of pride for more than 100 years before people started to figure out that it wasn't such a good idea anymore.

someone can correct me if im wrong, but that symbol is offensive to african americans because racist groups have adopted its use for their purposes. certainly, resistance to freeing the slaves was a part of what the confederacy stood for. musicians like skynyrd and kid rock use it as a symbol of southern heritage and arent racist. many take issue with their use of the flag, probably the same ones that want the redskins to change their name.

i believe one has to take into account the users (of a symbol) intent rather than painting with a broad brush.

The meaning is open for inturpretation based on the theories we've seen floated in this thread. I don't believe the name or logo were intended to be hateful or harmful, but the tides of evolution have turned against the good intentions to honor and celebrate the Native Americans via sports mascots.

agree with kdawg. not sure what you mean by the last part. if you mean the a few PC people have decided to make it their lifes cause to get the skins to change the name, i would agree with you.

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I however do hate the name change from the Bullets to the Wizards. It's cool they will at the very least return to using red white and blue over that teal and orange looking crap.

I like the return to RW & B. The orange is from their time in Baltimore.

I just can't fathom ANY Redskins fan that has rooted for this team under this name for many years to cave into the PCism. Racist name or not, my heart would sink if we had to be know under another nickname.

I still to this very day, harbor ill feelings towards Abe Pollin for changing the Bullets name. I think he gave a piss poor excuse about his friend in Isreal getting shot and the gun violence in DC as his motive for changing the name. He wanted to sell jerseys. Plain and simple. The Bullets not only sucked, but those horrible plain "red" road jerseys and the horrible "white" home jerseys were dull. He wanted to make a splash with a fancy new name and jersey. The team still sucks (maybe more now) and the current colors/mascot/logo are a joke. Funny how you can still buy the "un-PC" Bullets jersey anywhere. It takes more than a single bullet to kill someone, you need a gun and a stupid human to fire it. Plus, there are alot more ways to commit a murder besides bullets.

Anyway, I just cannot, no matter how awful people think the name is, give up on the name Redskins. Unfathomable to me.

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I didn't mean for this thread to be a debate about whether or not we should change our name. As a matter of fact, it really has nothing to do with that. I just wanted to talk about where we got our name from and why. I never mentioned anything about a name change. I have heard many theories about why we are called the Redskins, but never the one about Lone Star. I just thought it would be nice to know where our team name actually came from.

There is some very interesting information in this thread and I thank everyone for sharing. Keep it coming!

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I have never in my life heard someone use "redskin" as an epithet.
Well... I would say I have. But my example is a cowpuke fan at work always hailing me "Hello, redskins fan". 'Course he only started that after the first few times I walked into a room he and others were at, and I would say "Hello, gentlemen. Hello, cowboys fan." :evilg:
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