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Satisfaction Question...


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Say Marty is able to duplicate his success in KC here but shares in the same post season failures. Say we win 50+ games in the next 5 years, 2 or 3 NFC East crowns, get at least a wildcard spot every year and even advance to a NFC title game or two only to loose in closly contested hearbreakers.

Are we still happy? Or will the boo birds come calling?

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While certainly not a definite thing, I think we all expect to win the Super Bowl here within the next five years given the core of talented players we've been lucky enough to draft recently. I think we will ultimately hold Marty to that standard. And realistically, I seem to remember "Joe must go!" chants at RFK in '88 and '89 when that team was rebuilding but had already had won two of the three Super Bowls Gibbs had led them to during the previous 6-7 years. I don't think Marty wants it any other way.

That being said, you have to consistently compete, win and reach the playoffs before you can win a Super Bowl, and those are things which we most assuredly haven't done in the last ten years. Marty's done those things throughout his career and that's why he was brought here.

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"Loosen up, Sandy baby. You're just too damn tight!" - John Riggins to Supreme Court Justice Sandra Day O'Connor

[edited.gif by redman on August 09, 2001.]

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I don't remember many boobirds at RFK when the Redskins went 10-6 in 1989.

I think the question of how we will respond to losing the NFC Championship Game and how that affects Marty is sort of like George Bush worrying now about what he is going to do in his seventh year in office assuming he is reelected.

Let's take one step at a time.

Remember the memory of Norv will linger here for a long time to come. He erased the era of good feelings fans had towards the performance of the team that spanned almost the entire period from 1969-1992.

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That's an interesting question. To take it at face value, my answer is yes, very happy.

I think Marty would say "yes" to it too! Sixty wins out of eighty? Three div. crowns in five years? Two Conf. games? Hell, yes!

I think Marty is preparing a place for his son and brother, and if he has that kind of success, this will be a Shott. team for some time to come, even at the end of his five year contract. I think that's part of the reason he came back, frankly. Not to discount his desire to win it all, but with your scenario, he would probably be very happy; I would.

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I would be happy with a consistant winner, annual playoff trips sometimes going deep.

I don't think any of us who have followed the team for any length of time will truly be satisfied without a championship. We are still somewhat spoiled by the successes of the past, though Turner did his best to bring us back into perspective.

In any case, that type of success doesn't warrant boos from me ... even without a Super Bowl.

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Good thing I was deployed in 89 because I would have been using the Get Real Bat upside those idiots heads for booing a winning season.

I would be the first to say to the unappreciative that you can always beg for Norval if we have a string of winning seasons.

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Take a sip of the Marty Kool Aid and Believe

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what may ultimately determine what Marty does here is how he handles the quarterback position. If he is able to get top performances out of Jeff George in this offense, he will have the horses to compete with anybody in the NFL.

Let's face it. If George's emotional intelligence had matched his physical skills earlier in his career, 4,000 yard seasons and annual pro bowls would have been on tap.

Instead he blew up at each stop. On the optimistic side he never left a team with a coach that ever enjoyed real success in the NFL. Those teams were dog losers before and after George was there. Or those coaches were gone.

So, as I said either Marty gets George to have a renaissance and he shocks the NFL with his new found consistency or Marty needs to go out and find a new leader at QB in the offseason of 2002.

Either way that decision will weigh heavily on how successful the Redskins are.

The team has enough talent to go 9-7 or 10-6 in the future with a decent starting quarterback.

But if Marty ever wants to get to 12-4 or 13-3 we need SUPERIOR quarterbacking.

And outside of the 1993 season with Montana, Marty has never had that on his side as he entered the playoffs in 10 seasons with the Chiefs.

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Originally posted by bulldog:

I don't remember many boobirds at RFK when the Redskins went 10-6 in 1989.

I beg to differ. After having gone 7-9 in 1988, we started 5-6 before winning the last 5 to finish where we did (but amazingly, to still miss the playoffs at 10-6; name another team that's had that happen). There were most certainly boobirds at RFK in the early part of the year. I distinctly remember it.

------------------

"Loosen up, Sandy baby. You're just too damn tight!" - John Riggins to Supreme Court Justice Sandra Day O'Connor

[edited.gif by redman on August 09, 2001.]

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Well, it's happened to Washington several times!

- 1979 after the sickening Dallas comeback to win 35-34. They missed the playoffs due to a tie-breaker which was more than a little affected by I believe the Cardinals getting routed by Chicago on the same day.

- 1985 after a 1-3 start. They won the last three games of the year to finish 10-6 but still missed the playoffs.

- 1989

- 1990 we finished 10-6; didn't we miss the playoffs that year as well?

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Say Marty is able to duplicate his success in KC here but shares in the same post season failures. Say we win 50+ games in the next 5 years, 2 or 3 NFC East crowns, get at least a wildcard spot every year and even advance to a NFC title game or two only to loose in closly contested hearbreakers.

Are we still happy? Or will the boo birds come calling?

I would be extremely happy. After what we've been through with seven years of Norv?

I don't buy the criticism of Marty for not having won the big one. I'm not familiar with his past teams so I can't say whether he should have won those games or not. Maybe the opposing teams just had superior talent. Or maybe it was just their day.

Anything can happen in a single game. Take our last playoff game against Tampa. The ball takes a lucky bounce, King recovers his own fumble and makes a completion. If the ball had bounced the other way we maybe recover the fumble and win the game. Would that have made Norv any better a coach?

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Frankly, I'd settle for 8-8 and sweeps of Arizona and Dallas. Winning the home games against Philly and NY would be nice, too. Being able to turn off the TV when there's 4:00 left on the clock, and we're up by 12. (Or even up by 9, but we have the ball).

I'd just like to be able to see someone at Sam's wearing a (faded) Emmit Smith jersey, and know that I can ruin that person's day by identifying myself as a Skins fan. smile.gif

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The 1979 game against Dallas, 35-34, was in Texas Stadium so I don't think there were too many boobirds at RFK unless they were crows sitting on the flagpoles at the top of the stadium.

As far as 1985 goes, I remember Joe Theismann breaking his leg in the Giants game and fans at RFK rallying around Jay Schroeder as the team climbed from the morass back into the playoff race at 10-6.

While I remember boos being present at ALL games for every team I have ever followed, I can't remember anyone suggesting Joe Gibbs should resign as head coach of the Redskins.

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Actually, I was just citing the times Washington was 10-6 and didn't make the playoffs in response to redman's statement:

"... still miss the playoffs at 10-6; name another team that's had that happen"

Didn't really have anything to do with the booing thing.

I would like someone to check me on the 1990 season. If that's another one that means we've been 10-6 FOUR TIMES while missing the playoffs. I can't think of another team it's happened to even once.

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Brave- we made the playoffs in both '85 and '90. We might have in '79 too, but I can't vouch for it.

In '85, we were beaten by the Bears team that would ultimately become the Champs. I recall them getting into punt formation on 4th down deep in their own territory with virtually no time left and something like a 6 or 7 point lead, and having the punter intentionally run out of the back of the end zone to waste time and entitle them to kick off to us from the 35.

In '90 we lost at SF in a muddy game. SF lost in the championship to NYG, who of course won the Super Bowl.

My only point, however poorly stated, was that it's pretty dang rare, even with a 16-game schedule, to miss the playoffs at 10-6.

------------------

"Loosen up, Sandy baby. You're just too damn tight!" - John Riggins to Supreme Court Justice Sandra Day O'Connor

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To hear of such a thing among fans, who obviously were spoiled, makes my palate bitter to the taste!

How dry the 60's, until the man arrived from Green Bay, named Lombardi. When George Allen grabbed that torch, he lit a fire that burned bright, in spite of the laughter of the so-called "Over-the-Hill-Gang", which gave credence to a term named "Redskins Football" bestowed upon us by none other than, IMO the greatest coach in NFL history, with only a previous Redskins coach to counter, Gibbs and Lombardi.

That said and done, we could always be like Cincinnati, San Diego, Arizona, New England, then the taste of anything would be as sweet.

Where were the boos in 91-92?

<FONT COLOR="Yellow">HTTR!!!!</FONT c> injun.gif

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The Skins did not make the play-offs in 1979.

I think my satisfation level would be tempered by the kinds of Redskins teams that made the play-offs in any of those given years. If a scrappy bunch of over-achievers fought and scratched their way into the post season, I'd be thrilled. If, on the other hand, a bunch of malcontent hired guns waddled through games and threw in the towel every time the other teams refused to roll over and play dead, well..... Well, that would be last year.

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Understood Kevin West, bigtime. I do think that in 88-89, though we didn't go back to the SB after getting the Trophy early 88, those teams still fought and scrapped with the injuries and the "newbies" making the adjustments in the meantime. I also would put those teams against "any" or Norval's during his tenure, even though they didn't please some of the fans. It is the "foundation" and the heart of the team that mattered, thus the reason for an upward climb back in the saddle in 91. The chant for Norv to go, should have started after the 3rd-4th season, but to boo Gibbs after your pockets full of accomplishments others would die for, is absurd!

The lean years teach us to appreciate the team and the players to be grateful we still believed, though they may have fallen flat on their faces. In spite of some fans and players, the sellouts continue since '66, unbelievable.

<FONT COLOR="Yellow">HTTR!!!!</FONT c> injun.gif

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The Redskins are the only team since the NFL went to a 16 game schedule in 1978 that has posted THREE 10 win seasons and failed to make the playoffs:

1979, 1985 and 1989. In 1990 the Skins were 10-6 and beat the Eagles 17-7 at Philly before losing to 49ers in San Francisco in the divisional round.

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Hey, bulldog, I remember that Philly playoff game, I had the pleasure of attending that one. Boy, was THAT one surly crowd smile.gif. That was a clear example of the home crowd booing the coach, thousands in the stands chanted "Bye Bye Buddy" as the fourth quarter wore on.

I can understand booing Gibbs during the 0-6 start that first season, but anytime after that had to be the beer talking.

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I've said since Marty was hired, he doesn't have to win a game to be successful, if he brings back quality football played in a tough, disciplined, passionate way. Obviously, a championship would be nice, but, wins and losses are less important than transforming the organization back into what it was. And despite those championships of days gone by, the organization was one to respect and fear for the quality of the play. That's what I want to see more than anything.

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Doom is in the box.

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Art, notice how quiet Wilkinson and Coleman have been this year? None of that lighting up the victory cigar in July at Olives as they did last season. None of the talk of perhaps going 13-3 or 14-2 if things "broke right."

wins and losses? right now I am just happy that a$$ Deion Sanders is gone from sight. Deion in a Redskins uniform made me sick from the start puke.gif

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