88Comrade2000 Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 Why don't the owners want to fully disclose their financial books? 1. They are the employers and the players are employees; why should they? 2. They don't want the players and everyone else see how they really spend their money. 3. The owners could be hiding some of their revenues from the players. 4. The owners don't want other owners to see how they spend their money or the fact that they really have a profit and there is no need for extra revenue sharing. 5. Could there be something that could land owners in trouble with the law? Maybe they are doing some illegal things. What's funny is that when this thing probably goes to court, they will have to disclose this stuff anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 I think one of the biggest reasons is that they'll totally lose the public support of the fans, if the exact details of how filthy rich they are make it to the media. Right now, their wealth is just a vague concept to most people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2cents Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 No owners want to show their books. But, if you really want to hear complaining, ask the union to show it's books to it's members and the members would get rid of every union in the country....trust me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jflow78 Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 They don't want everyone to know that they've almost completed their new armored space station with enough power to destroy an entire planet. The union doesn't want to open their books because they're contributing to the space station under the table. See they're both evil. And, beyond them coming to an agreement so that we have football this year, why does any of this matter to the average NFL fan (or even us obsessors)?:whoknows: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKM311 Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 No owners want to show their books. But, if you really want to hear complaining, ask the union to show it's books to it's members and the members would get rid of every union in the country....trust me. Which the NFL will ask for in court. I am sure they see this coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sideshow24 Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 What business owners would openly show their books to employees? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjfootballer Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 They don't want everyone to know that they've almost completed their new armored space station with enough power to destroy an entire planet.The union doesn't want to open their books because they're contributing to the space station under the table. See they're both evil. And, beyond them coming to an agreement so that we have football this year, why does any of this matter to the average NFL fan (or even us obsessors)?:whoknows: This right here. Both sides suck and can kiss my ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artmonkforHOF Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 the main reason is that all NFL teams make good money, even the ones crying foul. Another big reason is that some owners are better than others, and that would be discovered with full disclosure, for example, Ralph Wilson does not want to show how much he is spending on his training facility, medical staff or other player programs if it will be dwarfed by what Jerry Jones spends, then Wilson will be under attack from the fans, media and PA to spend more on such things, and from what I have heard from some friends & family in the sports medicine business, the difference between the top NFL team and bottom is staggering when looking at some of these costs. Some of the owners do not trust each other as well, questioning if they include something in their financial report, will other owners follow or keep those revenues hidden? the only way you are going to get a clear picture of NFL team revenues is if they go to court and are ordered to show. And lastly, one small note that I ripped from Wilbon on PTI, the owners don't like it when "the help" tells them what to do. I really hope it goes to the courts, as it will show that not only does the NFL make enough money to split the revenue 50-50, but they would be able to build a stadium warchest in about 4 months that would be large enough to fully fund the construction of every new proposed stadium on the table right now. Heck, Ziggy Wilf, could pay for a new stadium in Minnesota, but instead he threatens to move to LA if the city and state don't pay for at least 20% of his construction costs and give him a sweetheart deal on taxes. I can't listen to owners complain of skyrocketing contracts when they are the ones who sign the deal and do not guarantee the contracts. Rookie contracts are stupidly front loaded since the agents have figured out that is the only way they can get a partial guarantee on future revenues. NFL owners are bullies who don't like being told what to do, and think taking a % of public money to build their stadium makes good business sense, because money is the bottom line. NFL players are compensated well in salary, but have horrible retirement benefits and generally get treated like crap. Even if you double their pay-, which would be easy to do, just ask for double in the next TV deal and those costs are covered, even if some networks balk, one will shoot themselves in the foot to get NFL football- that still does not excuse them for treating players like depreciating assets and not humans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 What business owners would openly show their books to employees? You do realize that ever publicly traded company publishes their financial statements right? Here are Microsoft's for example: http://www.microsoft.com/investor/EarningsAndFinancials/Financials/FY11/Q2/IncomeStatements.aspx An employee seeing an earnings report doesn't lead to chaos. The difference with the NFL is that the employees in question also happen to be their product and as such have a great deal more leverage than the average employee. If Microsoft has a good year I doubt very much that an employee from some random division within Microsoft charges into Steve Ballmer's office demanding a bigger piece of the pie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimmySmith Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 1. They are afraid that the union will go after their other revenue. 2. The rich owners (Snyder, Jones) do not want the other owners knowing exactly what they make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsFTW Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 1. They are afraid that the union will go after their other revenue. 2. The rich owners (Snyder, Jones) do not want the other owners knowing exactly what they make. Then there is no reason to expect even more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo#44 Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 You do realize that ever publicly traded company publishes their financial statements right? Here are Microsoft's for example:http://www.microsoft.com/investor/EarningsAndFinancials/Financials/FY11/Q2/IncomeStatements.aspx An employee seeing an earnings report doesn't lead to chaos. The difference with the NFL is that the employees in question also happen to be their product and as such have a great deal more leverage than the average employee. If Microsoft has a good year I doubt very much that an employee from some random division within Microsoft charges into Steve Ballmer's office demanding a bigger piece of the pie. How many private companies do it? How many CEO's and company owners are forced to reveal their investment assets? B/c that's what the union is asking for. That tells me they're after every dime they can squeeze out of the owners. I am not a big fan of the owners' stance here, but the last CBA extension a couple of years ago, the players got a sweetheart deal, and now they're asking for more. The union is asking for too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popeman38 Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 You do realize that ever publicly traded company publishes their financial statements right? Here are Microsoft's for example:http://www.microsoft.com/investor/EarningsAndFinancials/Financials/FY11/Q2/IncomeStatements.aspx An employee seeing an earnings report doesn't lead to chaos. The difference with the NFL is that the employees in question also happen to be their product and as such have a great deal more leverage than the average employee. If Microsoft has a good year I doubt very much that an employee from some random division within Microsoft charges into Steve Ballmer's office demanding a bigger piece of the pie. They already have the earnings report. How else do they come up with the $9.4B they earned last year that is shared? The unions want to see every form so they can wave it for the camera and sya "this owner spent $10M last year on entertaining clients, do you really think they can't afford to share an additional % with the players?" It is all grandstanding by the union, they already get 60% of the money..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 I am not a big fan of the owners' stance here, but the last CBA extension a couple of years ago, the players got a sweetheart deal, and now they're asking for more. The players aren't asking for more. ---------- Post added March-11th-2011 at 11:47 PM ---------- They already have the earnings report. How else do they come up with the $9.4B they earned last year that is shared? The unions want to see every form so they can wave it for the camera and sya "this owner spent $10M last year on entertaining clients, do you really think they can't afford to share an additional % with the players?" It is all grandstanding by the union, they already get 60% of the money..... Not all revenue is shared in the NFL. The 9.4 billion figure, just like every shared figure before it, is released because that's the basis for the salary cap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkekoa Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 IT goes beyond the owners...it's the league's books they are asking for as well. The league has already shown the NFLPA some of it's books that the owners aren't even apprised of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Tater Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 No thinking business man WANTS to fully disclose, nor is he truly required to unless he runs a public company. However, when the business makes a financial claim that it cannot afford what is being asked, the burden of proof is on the business and the business MUST prove it in a way acceptable to the party that is making the financial request. The other alternatives are for the business man to admit he lied, for the business man to give in elsewhere or for the business man not to contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88Comrade2000 Posted March 12, 2011 Author Share Posted March 12, 2011 1. They are afraid that the union will go after their other revenue. 2. The rich owners (Snyder, Jones) do not want the other owners knowing exactly what they make. I would also say that some of those owners who get that extra revenue sharing money don't want the rich owners to see that they keep that money don't use on the players at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paloosa Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 This is just a case of the players saying they want to see everything but not willing to budge on any issue even though they say they want it.It is a case of the owners not wanting to disclose their books to employees who have no right to them. These players make more than I do and much more than anyone that pays their salaries and they want more? They aren't helping the former players to get medical benefits, they are just looking out for themselves. As for the owners they are doing what they always have done with revenue sharing. Look at the small marke teams that are riding on the coat tails of the big market teams. Cincinnati is a prime example of an owner that is stingy, doesn't pay players what they are worth and don't worry about making a profit on their own. If you put a bad product out then you will lose money. You don't see business owners put out a bad product and ask other business owners in the same field to share their profits with them so they can still be in business, now do you? So I don't feel sorry for either side but in the end the players aren't going to win the battle. Ask yourself this, Do you have the right to see your companies books? DeMorris Smith is the problem with the whole process. He never went to the table wanting to get a deal done. If he did then he would have done the players justice. When Jeff Saturday is on TV saying they were never presented with a meeting of halfway with no financial records exchanged to get a deal done then something smells. The NFL stated they did that but yet the deal wasn't done. So either DeMorris Smith never delivered that message or the Owners are lying. We can only go with what is reported. I will miss football and will come back to watch if and when they start it back up but I don't feel sorry for either side. The fan that pays these guys salaries and provide the owners with their profits are the ones that are hurt especially in these economic times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACW Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 Because it will show the taxpayers how much they've been extorted :mad: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ncr2h Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 This is just a case of the players saying they want to see everything but not willing to budge on any issue even though they say they want it.It is a case of the owners not wanting to disclose their books to employees who have no right to them. These players make more than I do and much more than anyone that pays their salaries and they want more? They aren't helping the former players to get medical benefits, they are just looking out for themselves. As for the owners they are doing what they always have done with revenue sharing. Look at the small marke teams that are riding on the coat tails of the big market teams. Cincinnati is a prime example of an owner that is stingy, doesn't pay players what they are worth and don't worry about making a profit on their own. If you put a bad product out then you will lose money. You don't see business owners put out a bad product and ask other business owners in the same field to share their profits with them so they can still be in business, now do you? So I don't feel sorry for either side but in the end the players aren't going to win the battle. Ask yourself this, Do you have the right to see your companies books? The NFL Players aren't employees. They are shareholders. Their earnings, like shareholders, are based on the revenue of the company. An employee, on the other hand, earns money based on length of time (i.e. $10 per hour, $50,000 per year, etc.), performance (10% comission, etc.), or some mixture of the two. Employees do not earn money based on the profitability of the company they work for. Consider an example. Let's say you run a corporation, and you pay yourself a salary. In year 1, your business is showing net income of $50,000. You make the astute observation that, if you increased your salary in year 1 by $50,000, your business would have net income of $0 and would therefore not be subject to tax. In essence, your salary would be based on the corporation's income. Unfortunately, the IRS would correctly assert that your salary is in fact a dividend, and that you are a shareholder not an employee. The same goes for the players' union. In year 1, the NFL reports revenue of $1 billion. The owners are contractually obligated to spend x dollars paying the players' salaries. In year 2, the NFL reports revenue of $2 billion. The owners are contractually obligated to spend 2x dollars paying the players' salaries. The term is called "profit sharing" for a reason - business owners don't share profits with employees, they share profits with shareholders. Shareholders of publicly traded companies are required by law to receive annual audited financial statements, as well as quarterly reviewed financial statements and other, more sporadic information. Shareholders of private companies do not have the same right. But let's suppose that at the end of the day, the players receive 1/3 of the NFL's revenue. Do you really think there are privately-held corporations with annual revenues in excess of $9 billion that would refuse to issue audited financial information to a 1/3 shareholder? I don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dallascrushers Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 I think the players should try to get the nfl teams audited.....that may find a lot of interesting things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarpon75 Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 Based on the reports of the owners last offer I believe the players should have taken that offer. Hopefully,the players will rethink their position.I believe that the players placed too much faith in D. Smith and his cohorts.Not saying the owners are without blame but based on what is currently being circulated I feel the players need to bend.The fans apparently aren't being considered by either faction. ---------- Post added March-13th-2011 at 03:27 PM ---------- [QU OTE=Dallascrushers;8198809]I think the players should try to get the nfl teams audited.....that may find a lot of interesting things.[/quote And what would that accomplish? All that will do is extend the time this mess is tied up in the courts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrJL Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 the main reason is that all NFL teams make good money, even the ones crying foul. I'm not sure any of them are claiming they're losing money. Just saying that eventually they would under the current agreement. Of course we're supposed to believe they're psychic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Son of Gadsden Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 They don't want everyone to know that they've almost completed their new armored space station with enough power to destroy an entire planet. The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the force. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRSmith Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 No owners want to show their books. But, if you really want to hear complaining, ask the union to show it's books to it's members and the members would get rid of every union in the country....trust me. Hate to tell you this but as a union member I can request the financials from the union anytime I want and I am sure the players can ask also for the unions financials if they want it Seeing as many players get good educations and have degrees in things like business and finance they equipped to know what is going on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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