Diet Soda: Good or bad for fat people?

[Enter Apotheosis]

How is that possible? Shouldn't that devil's nectar have killed them years ago? I assume at the least they're grossly mutated?

I would say that they are probably a bit worse for the wear because of it. Obviously, though, having a few bad habits is not the end of the world.

Good point. The majority of what my grandfather drinks is soda, and he is 85. Although I have never seen him drink nearly the amount that I do.

Good genes and a little luck go a long way.

That's the second time you've said that in this thread. Apparently it's not as easy as you think or more people would do it. I'll refer the the previously posted stat about the obesity rate in this country. Knowing something is bad for you and doing something about it are two different things. You mention your cigarettes. Some people are that way with food. What's easy for you is difficult for them.

He's not really wrong, though. Eating and drinking right is an extremely easy thing to do in and of itself. It's overcoming habit, temptation, and the psychological issues that can be associated with overeating that are considerably more difficult.

[Homercles82]

My weight has yo-yo'ed a lot over the last 3 years. At one point I had lost 80 pounds through simply exercising and eating no more than 2,000 calories a day. Why do I keep having trouble with my weight? Will power. I can't resist snack food when it presents itself. Someone brought cake for dessert? I know I am stuffed but man a slice would sure be nice. Oh, chex mix in a big bowl? Sure, I'll eat half of it. All of this simply because it is there. I rarely get cravings for sweets or salty snacks. It is simply "see food, eat it" mentality that I am having a terrible time changing. It is an addiction that I am going to look into therapy for. I can eat a meal and be full, not stuffed but full, and 30 minutes later feel that hungry feeling in my stomach, and want something to eat.

I made the switch to diet sodas around 6 years ago and haven't looked back. Every now and then I may have a regular soda, but usually it is just to taste a new soda out. Afterwards I feel like crap and regret tasting the soda. The reason I mention all this is I have had a weight problem since I was a kid, and was never allowed to drink sodas back then. I hear constantly that diet soda is bad for you but no one really definitively proves whether it is or isn't from what I can read. I know I have gained weight drinking diet soda and I have lost weight drinking diet soda. So, I really don't know.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

He's not really wrong, though. Eating and drinking right is an extremely easy thing to do in and of itself. It's overcoming habit, temptation, and the psychological issues that can be associated with overeating that are considerably more difficult.

Right. It's not difficult at all. Nothing, other than yourself, prevents you from eating healthy. When I choose to run to Wendy's instead of a grocery store salad bar for lunch, it's not any easier...I'm just giving in to a craving instead of exhibiting more mental toughness and will power.

---------- Post added March-1st-2011 at 12:25 PM ----------

I made the switch to diet sodas around 6 years ago and haven't looked back. Every now and then I may have a regular soda, but usually it is just to taste a new soda out. Afterwards I feel like crap and regret tasting the soda. The reason I mention all this is I have had a weight problem since I was a kid, and was never allowed to drink sodas back then. I hear constantly that diet soda is bad for you but no one really definitively proves whether it is or isn't from what I can read. I know I have gained weight drinking diet soda and I have lost weight drinking diet soda. So, I really don't know.

No offense, but if you haven't seen definitive proof (or if you're waiting for it), you aren't being open-minded or listening.

This is in the first paragraph of the first link that popped up when I Googled "is diet soda bad for you?"

Although switching from regular soda to diet soda may save you calories, some studies suggest that drinking more than one soda a day — regular or diet — increases your risk of obesity and related health problems such as type 2 diabetes.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/diet-soda/AN01732

[No Excuses]

I hear constantly that diet soda is bad for you but no one really definitively proves whether it is or isn't from what I can read. I know I have gained weight drinking diet soda and I have lost weight drinking diet soda. So, I really don't know.

This isn't true. A lot of research has been done on the weight gain differences between artificial sweeteners and sugar based products. I know I read a study a while back which showed that rats that were given artificially sweeteners gained more weight than rats that were given sugar based products. They also showed a correlation in increasing obesity rates with the increased use of artificial sweeteners in societies.

Homer, you should also be careful with the on and off dieting. Chronic dieting and simply trying to lose weight just by dieting can have serious negative metabolic effects.

I know we read this one specific research paper which highlighted a lot of demographic and life style issues in relation to weight gain. It touched on dieting and diet soda's. Once I'm done with classes today, I'll pull out the case studies we looked at in a course I took last semester.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

This isn't true. A lot of research has been done on the weight gain differences between artificial sweeteners and sugar based products. I know I read a study a while back which showed that rats that were given artificially sweeteners gained more weight than rats that were given sugar based products. They also showed a correlation in increasing obesity rates with the increased use of artificial sweeteners in societies.

Homer, you should also be careful with the on and off dieting. Chronic dieting and simply trying to lose weight just by dieting can have serious negative metabolic effects.

I know we read this one specific research paper which highlighted a lot of demographic and life style issues in relation to weight gain. It touched on dieting and diet soda's. Once I'm done with classes today, I'll pull out the case studies we looked at in a course I took last semester.

Good post. At this point, we know enough about the crap that is in soda to know definitively that it is not good for you. Put it this way, without knowing exactly how HFCS and other ingredients impact you, it's still 100% true to say that water is a better alternative. If you're serious about losing weight, you'd stop drinking sodas completely...but at a minimum you should stop drinking them regularly.

[Heidenreich]

Depending on what you believe, neither of those things constitute proper nutrition

I know. I was just on a roll this morning and threw those two in. My one friend who is a real bodybuilding nut always eats that stuff. So it was the first thing that popped in my head.......

[Enter Apotheosis]

My weight has yo-yo'ed a lot over the last 3 years. At one point I had lost 80 pounds through simply exercising and eating no more than 2,000 calories a day. Why do I keep having trouble with my weight? Will power. I can't resist snack food when it presents itself. Someone brought cake for dessert? I know I am stuffed but man a slice would sure be nice. Oh, chex mix in a big bowl? Sure, I'll eat half of it. All of this simply because it is there. I rarely get cravings for sweets or salty snacks. It is simply "see food, eat it" mentality that I am having a terrible time changing. It is an addiction that I am going to look into therapy for. I can eat a meal and be full, not stuffed but full, and 30 minutes later feel that hungry feeling in my stomach, and want something to eat.

There's a reason that losing weight is easier than maintaining weight for most people. You simply can't look at a diet as a temporary measure and can't just assume that self control is automatic. Diet is a permanent, ongoing part of your life and you need to make sure that whatever changes you make you can live with indefinitely or until you determine that further changes are warranted. I'm not sure how big or active you are but the odds are extremely good that a sub-2000 calorie diet is not likely to be tenable over the long haul and your body may be reacting to it accordingly. Self control is very much akin to a muscle, you can only exercise it so much before it fails and different people have very different natural and trained capacities for work.

[China]

He's not really wrong, though. Eating and drinking right is an extremely easy thing to do in and of itself. It's overcoming habit, temptation, and the psychological issues that can be associated with overeating that are considerably more difficult.

Well it is not really possible to separate the diet from the habit, temptation and psychological issues. They come as a bundled package.

[TheDoyler23]

Just look at the "Nutrition Facts."

No way you can say that it's GOOD for you. Neutral is possible, but certainly not good.

*Sips off can of Sprite Zero*

[Darth Tater]

Is that really a generational thing, though? I've known older folks who drink soda almost exclusively and have done so for a long time.

Don't know what you consider older folks. The mid-70s is when the relative price of soda really started to go down. Before then most restaurant did not have unlimited free refills and if relative soda prices from my childhood had held to today, you'd be paying much more than you do. I suspect that many who drank lots of soda before then that are still alive today just are outliers (and what you remember drinking as a kid is a lot less than you think).

[Enter Apotheosis]

Don't know what you consider older folks. The mid-70s is when the relative price of soda really started to go down. Before then most restaurant did not have unlimited free refills and if relative soda prices from my childhood had held to today, you'd be paying much more than you do. I suspect that many who drank lots of soda before then that are still alive today just are outliers (and what you remember drinking as a kid is a lot less than you think).

As far as this particular thread goes, I was more or less defining older folks as my grandparents' generation (65-90 years old). I count vouch for how much soda they drank prior to the 90s, really, but a few of the ones that are still kicking damn sure have downed a lot over the past 20 years.

[Darth Tater]

I was watching Warren Buffett give a speech to a group of MBAs one day and he got on the topic of Coke. He was saying that unlike other drinks, juice, root beer, etc Coke has no "taste memory"... you don't get tired of drinking it through the course of a day.

I'm a bit weird. I could drink lighter, dryer more sour juice-type drinks (lemonade, cranberry) and even ice tea all day. I could not drink more than 36oz of Coke even back in the day. Never would think of grabbing a soda when I'm thirsty unless that's all there is.

[Darth Tater]

He's not really wrong, though. Eating and drinking right is an extremely easy thing to do in and of itself. It's overcoming habit, temptation, and the psychological issues that can be associated with overeating that are considerably more difficult.

Yes, he is really wrong. When you said that overcoming habit, temptation and psychological issues you stated why he was really wrong. The appropriate term here is its simple.

[Tulane Skins Fan]

(Sorry if this topic has been posted before- I searched and could not find)

So I'm sure most people saw the controversial study a few weeks back linking consumption of diet soda to an increased risk of heart attack and stroke. Understandably there were some disagreements over the methodology of the study, but I don't think anyone's ever really thought that drinking diet soda was necessarily good for you. Just that it was better than the alternative.

I'm a fat person trying to be less fat that consumes around 2-3 cans of Diet Coke per day. I know that water would be better for me, but Diet Coke represents a calorie-free alternative to eating a snack or dessert.

So is it better for me to go with the calorie free soda that curbs cravings and helps me to lose weight, or should I forego it altogether?

In order to determine what is best for you, you must first determine your preferred method of death. If you prefer heart attack and/or stroke, then diet soda is better for you. If you prefer diabetes or choking on your own turkey neck, then regular soda works.

Hope that helps.

[Koolblue13]

That's the second time you've said that in this thread. Apparently it's not as easy as you think or more people would do it. I'll refer the the previously posted stat about the obesity rate in this country. Knowing something is bad for you and doing something about it are two different things. You mention your cigarettes. Some people are that way with food. What's easy for you is difficult for them.

Most people just don't understand how it's easy, that's the problem. Our old food charts are wrong and just the style of meal consumption are off. I understand what you are saying though and I do get the comparison. I've talked about this several times over the years here, about how a healthy diet is both easy and affordable, if you know what you are doing. The smoking I'll quit when I change jobs. Working in a tiny bar, that allows smoking isn't the greatest place to try and break a 25 year long, 2 pack a day habit.

[Darth Tater]

Good post. At this point, we know enough about the crap that is in soda to know definitively that it is not good for you. Put it this way, without knowing exactly how HFCS and other ingredients impact you, it's still 100% true to say that water is a better alternative. If you're serious about losing weight, you'd stop drinking sodas completely...but at a minimum you should stop drinking them regularly.

HFCS are so relatively cheap that they show up in places were no added sweetener should or only in small amounts. By overwhelming your taste receptors with sweetness, you don't realize that you are eating sweetened cardboard. Also, many things that are advertised as having no fat are loaded with HFCS to make the thing edible while being relatively cheap to make. You don't really need to know exactly how HFCS impact you, just that too much sugar in you diet tends to make you have problems with insulin and thus over eat. Further, we also know that your body will try to take in the amount of food it needs to get what it needs.

[GoSkins0721]

As far as this particular thread goes, I was more or less defining older folks as my grandparents' generation (65-90 years old). I count vouch for how much soda they drank prior to the 90s, really, but a few of the ones that are still kicking damn sure have downed a lot over the past 20 years.

I think the decline in the price of soda is tied to when they started using HFCS in soda instead of sugar. Corn subsidies (thanks to Richard Nixon and Co.) helped prop up the price of corn. The subsidies encouraged farmers to forego other crops to get the subsidized corn price thus giving HFCS producers plenty of corn to make their product. HFCS was (and still is) cheaper than using sugar. Sodas (and the majority of other items being produced that used sugar) now use HFCS almost exclusively.

Coke & Pepsi (to name the largest) switched formulas to use HFCS to squeeze more profit from their products.

[No Excuses]

Good post. At this point, we know enough about the crap that is in soda to know definitively that it is not good for you. Put it this way, without knowing exactly how HFCS and other ingredients impact you, it's still 100% true to say that water is a better alternative. If you're serious about losing weight, you'd stop drinking sodas completely...but at a minimum you should stop drinking them regularly.

Following up on my earlier post, here are some good research studies that should help answer the OP's question:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2892765/

Abstract:

America’s obesity epidemic has gathered much media attention recently. A rise in the percent of the population who are obese coincides with an increase in the widespread use of non-caloric artificial sweeteners, such as aspartame (e.g., Diet Coke) and sucralose (e.g., Pepsi One), in food products (Figure 1). Both forward and reverse causalities have been proposed [1,2]. While people often choose “diet” or “light” products to lose weight, research studies suggest that artificial sweeteners may contribute to weight gain. In this mini-review, inspired by a discussion with Dr. Dana Small at Yale’s Neuroscience 2010 conference in April, I first examine the development of artificial sweeteners in a historic context. I then summarize the epidemiological and experimental evidence concerning their effects on weight. Finally, I attempt to explain those effects in light of the neurobiology of food reward.

Some good excerpts from the study:

Surprisingly, epidemiologic data suggest the contrary. Several large scale prospective cohort studies found positive correlation between artificial sweetener use and weight gain. The San Antonio Heart Study examined 3,682 adults over a seven- to eight-year period in the 1980s [18]. When matched for initial body mass index (BMI), gender, ethnicity, and diet, drinkers of artificially sweetened beverages consistently had higher BMIs at the follow-up, with dose dependence on the amount of consumption. Average BMI gain was +1.01 kg/m2 for control and 1.78 kg/m2 for people in the third quartile for artificially sweetened beverage consumption. The American Cancer Society study conducted in early 1980s included 78,694 women who were highly homogenous with regard to age, ethnicity, socioeconomic status, and lack of preexisting conditions [19]. At one-year follow-up, 2.7 percent to 7.1 percent more regular artificial sweetener users gained weight compared to non-users matched by initial weight. The difference in the amount gained between the two groups was less than two pounds, albeit statistically significant. Saccharin use was also associated with eight-year weight gain in 31,940 women from the Nurses’ Health Study conducted in the 1970s [20].

These pilot investigations are consistent with a revised hypothesis: Sweetness decoupled from caloric content offers partial, but not complete, activation of the food reward pathways. Activation of the hedonic component may contribute to increased appetite. Animals seek food to satisfy the inherent craving for sweetness, even in the absence of energy need

.

Lastly, artificial sweeteners, precisely because they are sweet, encourage sugar craving and sugar dependence. Repeated exposure trains flavor preference [54]. A strong correlation exists between a person’s customary intake of a flavor and his preferred intensity for that flavor. Systematic reduction of dietary salt [55] or fat [56] without any flavorful substitution over the course of several weeks led to a preference for lower levels of those nutrients in the research subjects.

Here is another really good study on this topic. I can't link the actual study because I'm accessing it through my schools database but I'll provide the abstract.

http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/32/4/688

Diet soda intake and risk of incident metabolic syndrome and type 2 diabetes in the multi-ethnic study of atherosclerosis (MESA)

Nettleton J.A., Lutsey P.L., Wang Y., Lima J.A., Michos E.D. and Jacobs Jr. D.R.

Diabetes Care 2009 32:4 (688-694)

Go to publisher for the full text

OBJECTIVE - We determined associations between diet soda consumption and risk of incident metabolic syndrome, its components, and type 2 diabetes in the Multi-Ethnic Study of Atherosclerosis. RESEARCH DESIGN AND METHODS - Diet soda consumption was assessed by food frequency questionnaire at baseline (2000-2002). Incident type 2 diabetes was identified at three follow-up examinations (2002-2003, 2004-2005, and 2005-2007) as fasting glucose > 126 mg/dl, self-reported type 2 diabetes, or use of diabetes medication. Metabolic syndrome (and components) was defined by National Cholesterol Education Program Adult Treatment Panel III criteria. Hazard ratios (HRs) with 95% CI for type 2 diabetes, metabolic syndrome, and metabolic syndrome components were estimated, adjusting for demographic, lifestyle, and dietary confounders. RESULTS - At least daily consumption of diet soda was associated with a 36% greater relative risk of incident metabolic syndrome and a 67% greater relative risk of incident type 2 diabetes compared with nonconsumption (HR 1.36 [95% CI 1.11-1.66] for metabolic syndrome and 1.67 [1.27-2.20] for type 2 diabetes). Of metabolic syndrome components, only high waist circumference (men ≥102 cm and women ≥88 cm) and high fasting glucose (≥100 mg/dl) were prospectively associated with diet soda consumption. Associations between diet soda consumption and type 2 diabetes were independent of baseline measures of adiposity or changes in these measures, whereas associations between diet soda and metabolic syndrome were not independent of these factors. CONCLUSIONS - Although these observational data cannot establish causality, consumption of diet soda at least daily was associated with significantly greater risks of select incident metabolic syndrome components and type 2 diabetes. © 2009 by the American Diabetes Association.

[greenspandan]

i dunno. many of the people i know who drink diet soda down like 2 liters of it a day, compared with my 12 ounces of regular soda. saturating your body with that much sugar substitute (and other assorted chemicals) can't be great for you. i feel like it's more about the ridiculous volume consumed rather than the sugar levels.

[Heidenreich]

Figured I'd bump this rather than start a new thread.

Gave up Pepsi for lent. I'm now 2 1/2 weeks in. I was MISERABLE the first week while I kicked the caffiene addiction. Now I don't really miss it at all.

That being said, I haven't changed anything else, and I'm still exercising like I had been before. Haven't lost a lick of weight. Not even a pound.

Therefore, I can now conclude that Pepsi is NOT bad for me in the least!

The countdown to APril 24th is on.......

[No Excuses]

Therefore, I can now conclude that Pepsi is NOT bad for me in the least!

There is more to health and fitness than weight.

[rictus58]

Jesus Christ. To listen to the most of the people here you'd think they don't do anything wrong health wise ever. Everyone is perfect. Especially me. I had a Marlboro Red, a pound of Bacon and warm coke for breakfast.

[Heidenreich]

Can of coke or a line of coke?????

[chipwhich]

Figured I'd bump this rather than start a new thread.

Gave up Pepsi for lent. I'm now 2 1/2 weeks in. I was MISERABLE the first week while I kicked the caffiene addiction. Now I don't really miss it at all.

That being said, I haven't changed anything else, and I'm still exercising like I had been before. Haven't lost a lick of weight. Not even a pound.

Therefore, I can now conclude that Pepsi is NOT bad for me in the least!

The countdown to APril 24th is on.......

Well that is a logical conclusion. :fly:

[No Excuses]

Jesus Christ. To listen to the most of the people here you'd think they don't do anything wrong health wise ever. Everyone is perfect. Especially me. I had a Marlboro Red, a pound of Bacon and warm coke for breakfast.

There is no such thing as a "perfect" diet or "perfectly healthy" person and you'll find very few people who successfully and strictly follow a very clean and healthy diet.

But anyone who cares for the preservation of his/her body can follow a moderated diet and live a healthy life. People can go to the gym and lift all the weights they want, but organ health is hell of a lot more important than your outer physical experience. Most likely, if your internals are healthy, your exterior reflects it anyways.

If you feel that present time over indulgence outweighs future (and most likely inevitable) health issues, then fine. It's really not that hard to to moderate your diet by balancing the healthy with the occasional unhealthy.