tdigle Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 He's definitely the one defensive player on the market that I'm most interested in. It's been said in all of the draft threads that there are no viable FS prospects this year. I'd love to have this man come on and concentrate on our D's base in this year's draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Tris Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 TKextremeskins TK Hearing #redskins aint just kicking tires on OJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
addicted Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 That'd be top 10 S money - FS and SS combined. He'd be the 7th highest paid free safety.Here is a breakdown of every NFL free safety contracts and salaries for 2011: I agree with what your saying here and think that paying top dollar for a FS that's turning 30 before the next games played isn't a smart thing to do. I was also wondering where you pulled that contract info from? Can you share please ---------- Post added February-21st-2011 at 11:52 AM ---------- TKextremeskins TK Hearing #redskins aint just kicking tires on OJ Interesting, TK's money so those hoping he's signed just might get there wish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Tris Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 I agree with what your saying here and think that paying top dollar for a FS that's turning 30 before the next games played isn't a smart thing to do. I was also wondering where you pulled that contract info from? Can you share please http://rotoworld.com/teams/contracts/nfl/was/washington-redskins Unfortunately, they don't let you go by position, so I spent some time culling through each team to compose this list. Had to search around for some players original contract info that was not listed. If we are the first to sign Atogwe, it will be because we blew other teams out of the water with our contract offer, considering he will be in demand from other FS needy teams (49ers, Jets, Oakland off the top of my head). Blowing other teams offers off the table =/= rational contract for aging veteran. My only hope would be some sort of Haslett discount, but that doesn't seem likely for a guy who expects to be paid X and is being forced to settle for X/2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsCrushCowboys Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 TKextremeskins TK Hearing #redskins aint just kicking tires on OJ. I like to think that the days of overpaying players is over, but a competitive offer to get back into Hasletts defense on a team that is turning things would be great. I do fear starting the wheels on the "sign every free agent to a big contract" deal that has been in place for so long. Strategic free agents at market value, not at Snyder/Vinnie money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
addicted Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 http://rotoworld.com/teams/contracts/nfl/was/washington-redskinsUnfortunately, they don't let you go by position, so I spent some time culling through each team to compose this list. Had to search around for some players original contract info that was not listed. If we are the first to sign Atogwe, it will be because we blew other teams out of the water with our contract offer, considering he will be in demand from other FS needy teams. Cool thanks bro, I was hoping there was some website I didn't know about that you could pull that info from. You'd think that would be out there but guess not. Appreciate you posting that here for us Yup your right about that contract. If he is signed today then his agents got to know that he's got the best offer he's going to hear from anyone. All we can hope for now is that there are provisions in the contract like the one McNabb signed where we can get us out of the deal without much damage if he turns out to be like all the other pricey free agents we've brought in over the year without losing our shirts. I'll admit it. I'm gun shy about signing bigtime money free agents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
authentic Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 BAL: Reed (32)- $6.15M - 5th year of a 6 year, $44M extension, $15M guar DEN: Dawkins (37) - $6M - 3rd year of 5 year, $17M deal, $7.2M guar GB: Collins (27) - $2.9M - 2nd year of 4 year, $26.75M extension, $14M guar IND: Bethea (26) - $4.745M - 2nd year of 4 year, $27M extension KC: Berry (22) - $3.25M - 2nd year of 5 year, $60M rookie deal, $34M guar MIN: Williams (29) - $5.4M - 4th year of 6 year, $33.75M extension, $13M guar NO: Jenkins (23) - $712,000 - 3rd year of 5 year, $19M rookie deal, $11M guar NYG: Rolle (28) - $5.25M - 2nd year of 5 year, $37M deal, $15M guar OAK: Huff (27) - FA - end of 5 year, $43M rookie deal SEA: Thomas (21) - $625,000 - 2nd year of 5 year, $21.1M rookie deal, $12.32M guar So Atogwe would instantly become the 7th highest paid free safety in football. People talk about FS playing well into their 30s - well, I see 4 starting FS out of 32 in their 30s. I believe that is the exception for HOF players like Dawkins and Reed, and not the norm. Regardless, signing Atogwe to an multi-year contract in excess of eight figures is the height of fiscal irresponsibility, and shows that little has changed in that department, as well as the patience to build a sustained winning team. FA quick fixes that do not benefit the long term health of this team have gotten us no where. So why is this time any different? Because there are different people empolying the same ****ty strategy that simply does not work in the salary cap era? No. More effective implimentation of building primarily through free agency does not change the fact that even flawless heavy use of FA is still a plan that undercuts young player development and ties too much cap space up in too few players. If Allen and Shanahan are hell bent on this strategy, I expect better results relative to Gibbs and Cerrato, but it is still a strategy that will fail, and fail miserably, in the long run. This is a list of players who could make about equal or more to what my proposed $15-$20mill contract. Lets say that his contract is performance laden, which would decrease his guaranteed money, i still say that it would be a modest contract. I don't see how you can categorize such as "fiscal irresponsibility"...That term would be appropriately used if they paid ABOVE market value for him considering (his age, health history, and ability). And looking at him over the years, I don't see a concern on either front. Furthermore, you seem a bit hell bent on the notion that all of our players need to be drafted, otherwise its "business as usual". Come on man, take off the 'Snyder Hate' shades for a second and look around the league. How many teams can you recall building thier teams with ALL draft picks? (Baltimore, Philly, NYG, NYJ, NE, Pitt...etc) are all teams who have a reputation of building successful programs through the draft, yet even they have utilized FA to supplement thier roster. The difference between the Skins and other teams, is that in the past we have over paid for players who were passed thier prime, that didn't fit the scheme, and neglected the draft by trading away picks. This is why we are in the situation we're in now. But to imply that offering (what i call a modest) contract to a player who is healthy, fits into the scheme (Haslett), has probowl-type talent, and is still in his prime, how can you knock that? IDK dude, to each its own, but i have a feeling that you may be a bit jaded by the mishandlings of the past, so you go bananas to any notion of FA signings. I could be wrong though.... ---------- Post added February-21st-2011 at 01:07 PM ---------- TKextremeskins TK Hearing #redskins aint just kicking tires on OJ. Good, sign him!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dro89 Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 This is a list of players who could make about equal or more to what my proposed $15-$20mill contract. Lets say that his contract is performance laden, which would decrease his guaranteed money, i still say that it would be a modest contract. I don't see how you can categorize such as "fiscal irresponsibility"...That term would be appropriately used if they paid ABOVE market value for him considering (his age, health history, and ability). And looking at him over the years, I don't see a concern on either front. Furthermore, you seem a bit hell bent on the notion that all of our players need to be drafted, otherwise its "business as usual". Come on man, take off the 'Snyder Hate' shades for a second and look around the league. How many teams can you recall building thier teams with ALL draft picks? (Baltimore, Philly, NYG, NYJ, NE, Pitt...etc) are all teams who have a reputation of building successful programs through the draft, yet even they have utilized FA to supplement thier roster. The difference between the Skins and other teams, is that in the past we have over paid for players who were passed thier prime, that didn't fit the scheme, and neglected the draft by trading away picks. This is why we are in the situation we're in now. But to imply that offering (what i call a modest) contract to a player who is healthy, fits into the scheme (Haslett), has probowl-type talent, and is still in his prime, how can you knock that? IDK dude, to each its own, but i have a feeling that you may be a bit jaded by the mishandlings of the past, so you go bananas to any notion of FA signings. I could be wrong though....---------- Post added February-21st-2011 at 01:07 PM ---------- Good, sign him!!! wasting your time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Tris Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 (Baltimore, Philly, NYG, NYJ, NE, Pitt...etc) are all teams who have a reputation of building successful programs through the draft, yet even they have utilized FA to supplement thier roster. The difference between the Skins and other teams, is that in the past we have over paid for players who were passed thier prime, that didn't fit the scheme, and neglected the draft by trading away picks. My problem is the number and frequency of the big name free agent signings. I have repeatedly endorsed one "big name" free agent this offseason. If that is Atogwe, great - we have a stop gap FS for several years. However, if we sign Atogwe, then Ryan Harris, then Davin Joseph, then Paul Soliai, and then Sidney Rice, or any combination of those players, we are simply repeating the mistakes of the past. It is not simply the pure dollar cost, but the opportunity cost, in which we take away the opportunity to give young players reps to develop into cost effective starters. You say things have changed - I say let's see what happens when we have an offseason where we have the opportunity to spend, and don't. Because every comment I have heard come out of Ashburn has talked about how active we are going to be in free agency. ---------- Post added February-21st-2011 at 01:13 PM ---------- wasting your time... Dro, your continued insistance that by signing FA after FA we will build a sustained chanpionship team shows how little you notice about the teams that are excelling in the NFL, and the teams that continue to flounder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrelgreenie Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 TKextremeskins TK Hearing #redskins aint just kicking tires on OJ. I hope we pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dro89 Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 i wouldn't say Davin and Ryan are big name Free Agents.. very good players.. and Ryan Harris may cost less and is younger than Brown... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Tris Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 Again, in a vacuum, I would support signing either of them. How hard is it to understand that it is the quantity of FAs that concerns me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dro89 Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 Again, in a vacuum, I would support signing either of them. How hard is it to understand that it is the quantity of FAs that concerns me? its becoming very difficult to have an conversation with you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Tris Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 Why? Because I have a POV that differs from yours? Please, tell me why you see no problem in signing multiple FA to top 10 at their position money? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
authentic Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 My problem is the number and frequency of the big name free agent signings. I have repeatedly endorsed one "big name" free agent this offseason. If that is Atogwe, great - we have a stop gap FS for several years.However, if we sign Atogwe, then Ryan Harris, then Davin Joseph, then Paul Soliai, and then Sidney Rice, or any combination of those players, we are simply repeating the mistakes of the past. It is not simply the pure dollar cost, but the opportunity cost, in which we take away the opportunity to give young players reps to develop into cost effective starters. You say things have changed - I say let's see what happens when we have an offseason where we have the opportunity to spend, and don't. Because every comment I have heard come out of Ashburn has talked about how active we are going to be in free agency. News flash....We are lacking in talent!! We don't have enough draft picks to fill all the holes on this team (that's even if we had our full compliment of picks). So how do you go about structuring a competitive team with all things considered. You utilize BOTH FA and the draft. I don't see how you can't understand that..... We've given K. Moore his chance, we've given R. Doughty his chance, heck even Barnes got an opportunity to play @ FS, and the conclusion is that we don't have a legitimate FS on this team.... Also who's to say that we will overpay for every talented FA we bring in? Heck, we had quite a few players come into interview last offseason (L. Foote, Dansby, J. Porter), and we let all 3 walk away to sign more lucrative deals elsewhere, so yeah thats a sign that things have changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKM311 Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 My problem is the number and frequency of the big name free agent signings. I have repeatedly endorsed one "big name" free agent this offseason. If that is Atogwe, great - we have a stop gap FS for several years.However, if we sign Atogwe, then Ryan Harris, then Davin Joseph, then Paul Soliai, and then Sidney Rice, or any combination of those players, we are simply repeating the mistakes of the past. It is not simply the pure dollar cost, but the opportunity cost, in which we take away the opportunity to give young players reps to develop into cost effective starters. You say things have changed - I say let's see what happens when we have an offseason where we have the opportunity to spend, and don't. Because every comment I have heard come out of Ashburn has talked about how active we are going to be in free agency. ---------- Post added February-21st-2011 at 01:13 PM ---------- Dro, your continued insistance that by signing FA after FA we will build a sustained chanpionship team shows how little you notice about the teams that are excelling in the NFL, and the teams that continue to flounder. It is fine to go nuts in this FA. When I saw nuts, I mean with quantity of players, not the amount of contract. I don't want to see any huge contracts like DHall, etc. I want to mimic the 2004 offseason, where we did build through FA. Griffin, Springs, Washington, Portis, and more were all brought in that year and developed our core. What we need to do in addition to this, is finally keep our picks. That gives us the time to develop the picks under these FA players so we can sustain some consistency in winning. That way, when the Hensons, Rileys, etc are ready to step in, they can. I guess my point is, we need a balance between the two. Not just one or the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tml6157 Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 My problem is the number and frequency of the big name free agent signings. I have repeatedly endorsed one "big name" free agent this offseason. If that is Atogwe, great - we have a stop gap FS for several years.However, if we sign Atogwe, then Ryan Harris, then Davin Joseph, then Paul Soliai, and then Sidney Rice, or any combination of those players, we are simply repeating the mistakes of the past. It is not simply the pure dollar cost, but the opportunity cost, in which we take away the opportunity to give young players reps to develop into cost effective starters. You say things have changed - I say let's see what happens when we have an offseason where we have the opportunity to spend, and don't. Because every comment I have heard come out of Ashburn has talked about how active we are going to be in free agency. ---------- Post added February-21st-2011 at 01:13 PM ---------- Dro, your continued insistance that by signing FA after FA we will build a sustained chanpionship team shows how little you notice about the teams that are excelling in the NFL, and the teams that continue to flounder. So let me get this straight.....we are not supposed to sign anymore FA because of how Vinny and Dan used to do things? Gotcha! Makes perfect sense. I hope you dont mind the 10-15 years it will take to rebuild this team using your method. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKM311 Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 Why? Because I have a POV that differs from yours?Please, tell me why you see no problem in signing multiple FA to top 10 at their position money? See, thats the problem I think people are having with your POV. You are assuming we will pay top 10 money. Did we do that last year? No. And I highly doubt we do that this year, unless they TRULY are worth it on and OFF the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
authentic Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 Oh and BTW.... JsteelzExtreme Def more of a push for OJ the Shaun Rogers. Rogers was kicking tires.. Hass. Loves OJ, dont mean it gets done but working on it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsHokieFan Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 So let me get this straight.....we are not supposed to sign anymore FA because of how Vinny and Dan used to do things? Gotcha! Makes perfect sense. I hope you dont mind the 10-15 years it will take to rebuild this team using your method. The point is that building a team off "big free agent" classes simply does not work, in particular with the Washington Redskins. There are 3 FA's I have any interest in. Kahlil, Joseph and Solai. Beyond that we should get cheap filler guys and not spend 5+ million per year on a FS, when we can just develop that in house This organization tried before the 2000, 2003, 2006 and 2009 seasons the big "fa class" approach. Only once did the team actually reach .500 (in 2000) What is wrong with seeing if Kareem Moore is better in 2011? Or if Macho Harris can play the spot in our scheme? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dukes and Skins Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 See, thats the problem I think people are having with your POV. You are assuming we will pay top 10 money.Did we do that last year? No. And I highly doubt we do that this year, unless they TRULY are worth it on and OFF the field. We also didn't do it because of a limited FA crop. Tris has a point I've been changing my tune lately as well, we need to not sign 7 free agents but instead get 3 guys and then use the draft picks. This will take time to rebuild but we can't just go hog wild into FA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dro89 Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 Why? Because I have a POV that differs from yours?Please, tell me why you see no problem in signing multiple FA to top 10 at their position money? its not your POV.. i respect your point of view its the tone i see you saying it with. and i dont see us even signing them to top 10 money.. hell who even knows if we do sign em to that type of money.. from any indication that i have now is that bruce has came in here and made work of our crapping situation which imo is a direct indication of change in this organization.. im not saying go out and get 7 big name FAs.. no not saying that at all but imo signing Harris(which doesnt even really count if your going to resign Brown),Davin Joseph, and Atogwe.. would slim the needs of the team for now and allow us to tackle more and more needs through a draft for the next 2/3 years.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Tris Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 News flash....We are lacking in talent!! We don't have enough draft picks to fill all the holes on this team (that's even if we had our full compliment of picks). Why do we have to fill every hole this year? You think the best strategy when thinking long term is to solve every problem in one year? We've given K. Moore his chance, we've given R. Doughty his chance, heck even Barnes got an opportunity to play @ FS, and the conclusion is that we don't have a legitimate FS on this team. Kareem Moore had one start in 2009 at FS. Last year, he had 11, all of which came following a knee injury that he clearly wasn't recovered from. Late round players take YEARS to develop, not one injury-plagued season. Kevin Barnes had one start at FS, and you've come to the conclusion that he is not legitimate. The lack of patience is staggering. It takes time to develop and build a team, they are not microwaved over night through free agency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsHokieFan Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 We also didn't do it because of a limited FA crop. Tris has a point I've been changing my tune lately as well, we need to not sign 7 free agents but instead get 3 guys and then use the draft picks. This will take time to rebuild but we can't just go hog wild into FA I am in that same boat. Nobody can point to a team that had a 7-8 person FA class that did anything. You bring in the Buchanan and Holliday guys in the first year or 2 of a program just to give your team some experienced bodies, not as people you rely on for long term. Atogwe would be a fit for us if he was one of the last pieces we need. But this team badly needs to be built via cheaper draft picks, young guys who will be in the system for 4-5 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
authentic Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 We also didn't do it because of a limited FA crop. Tris has a point I've been changing my tune lately as well, we need to not sign 7 free agents but instead get 3 guys and then use the draft picks. This will take time to rebuild but we can't just go hog wild into FA ...But what if those "7 free agents" could upgrade your team immediately and could be had with a reasonable price, do you still pass on them just because "they're free agents and we're supposed to build through the draft"? Again, i think we as Skins fans have become so jaded that we defy common logic due to negative perception. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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