MrSilverMaC Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 Completely agree with you... however I think forming an opinion without knowing what actually went down is difficult. Some things will push people over the edge and induce an unstable emotional state. Without knowing exactly what went down it's difficult to say if it was reasonable or not. If they were arguing about tax law I agree with you. If on the other hand his entire crew called him and his significant other baby killers that will rot in hell for what they've done... I could see that infuriate and compromise someone emotionally. I have no idea the extent of any insult or if there even was an insult. Though I will say 99.99% of what could be said wouldn't justify his actions. There is that small thing though that in the real would could push any of us over the edge. After re-reading the story, this seems pretty plausible. And if he were a democrat something insensitive or ignorant like "she had it coming" or something similar to that were said by one of his fellow firefighters I could see how that would send him over the edge and/or made him ineffective at his job under such stressful situations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKnight82 Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 Well, that's a good step.I'm not sure what to think about what to do with him. I think they should check and see if he's ever done anything that could be similar in the past... if he's been spotless til now, I'd hate to see an entire career and life's work go down in flames.. but man it is gallling what he did. Is an apology acceptable? ~Bang Not saying its likely, but what if they proved his timely presence on the scene could of saved someones life? Do you think he should face charges in that situation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 Looks like, with more information coming out, things aren't as cut and dried as first reported. (Shocking, huh?) My suspicion is that this is one of those stories where the correct response is "We'll know a whole lot more, in the morning". True. I'll back off my initial outrage. But part of me keeps hearing "Damage control!' Can't help it. I'm a natural cynic ~Bang ---------- Post added February-18th-2011 at 11:17 PM ---------- Not saying its likely, but what if they proved his timely presence on the scene could of saved someones life? Do you think he should face charges in that situation? I don't see how that can be proven. No, charges are not something I'd consider, even if it turns out some of my worst assumptions about the incident are true. Being an ass isn't a crime. ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stanleys Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 Read the responses on the first page.......then read the responses after it's found out the person in question leans left politically. Really shows who the partisan hacks are.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hdf561 Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 Here is the thing, I am a firefighter, I come from a firefighting family, I have been doing thsi for 14 years....what this guy did is a black eye on the fire service....however his responding or not responding had ZERO impact on the outcome. Being dispatched 90 mins after the intial incident his crew would have had almost no impact on the intial victims and only minimal impact on the ancillary victims. This does not justify it, but the fact that people are going around saying this could have been detrimental is just not true. He is just one of thousands of firefighters and does not represent the whole. I do however agree that he should have been given the opportuinty to retire if he was qualified for it, not allowing him to do that would just make everything worse. I would however hope they stipulate in his retirement that he can not come on FD property or Fd functions (my FD has done this several times with "forced" retirements) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 No, charges are not something I'd consider, even if it turns out some of my worst assumptions about the incident are true. Being an ass isn't a crime. Actually, at least according to the half hour or so that we spent covering the legal aspects of EMS, in my long-ago EMT training, it is. It's called "nonfeasance", and it's the only form of malpractice you can commit that's a criminal violation. The way it was explained to me was that the old adage is true. That if a man is drowning 10 feet from shore, and there's a life preserver and 20 feet of rope next to you, and you stand there and do nothing, then you cannot be prosecuted. But that if you attempt to throw the flotation device to him, and you hit him in the head and knock him unconscious, then you can be. (But, the Good Samaritan Law will protect you.) But, the exception to that rule is if you have in some way assumed the duties of rescuing that person. If you're standing next to the pool wearing a shirt that says "Lifeguard", then you are required to assist him. If you put on that uniform, then you are legally required to aid whoever needs it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 If you put on that uniform, then you are legally required to aid whoever needs it. Not if you do not feel it safe,not even police are required to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AzSkinsFan63 Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 Well, that's a good step.I'm not sure what to think about what to do with him. I think they should check and see if he's ever done anything that could be similar in the past... if he's been spotless til now, I'd hate to see an entire career and life's work go down in flames.. but man it is gallling what he did. Is an apology acceptable? ~Bang Actually only heard about it last night watching NBC local news out of Tucson. There was no mention of any political bantering that I recall in the story last night...I was under the impression he just couldn't deal with that situation. As far as what he did..if the fact he didn't go caused any harm or potential harm, then first that should be taken care of. Then his resignation works for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebluefood Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 Looks like, with more information coming out, things aren't as cut and dried as first reported. (Shocking, huh?) My suspicion is that this is one of those stories where the correct response is "We'll know a whole lot more, in the morning". Never is, Larry. I'm not really sure what to think of the whole thing now that I read the article on post 22. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 Not if you do not feel it safe,not even police are required to do so. I chose not to mention that, because it's not relevant to this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thiebear Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 I thought firefigters were allowed to say no when there is shooting involved? If that was his reason fired without public service jobs in different fields is a start though. Well reading works also: Not sure anymore, he retired so he wasn't a spring chicken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan T. Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 The local Arizona paper found little indication that the guy was politcal at all. Registered as an independent, hadn't voted in a primary in some 20 years of record-keeping, no contributions to political campaigns or politicians. It also noted he actually voted for Giffords and had interacted with her before working on a project to acquire some sort of equipment for the Department. This was a case where the press took one small aspect of a personal inter-office conflict and ran with it - "Firefighter refuses to do job because of politics" and they got the firestorm of controversy and outrage they expected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AzSkinsFan63 Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_thelookout/20110218/ts_yblog_thelookout/tuscon-firefighter-refused-to-respond-to-shootings-because-he-was-distraught "I am very passionate about my country and was distraught over the magnitude of how this would affect our country," Ekstrum said. "I became distracted to the point of not being able to perform my routine station duties to such an extent that I seriously doubted my ability to focus on an emergency call." Joe Gulotta, the assistant fire chief for the Tuscon Fire Department, told Hill that Ekstrum had voted for Giffords and worked actively to support her. Gulotta explained that Ekstrum had been enraged by his perception that the shooter had acted out of ideological motivations. Gulotta called Ekstrum's refusal to respond "unheard of" and "unacceptable" and the department was "moving forward with disciplinary action" when he retired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 I chose not to mention that, because it's not relevant to this thread. It could be ...perhaps he bought into the crazy right wingers are on the loose,with them out to water the tree of liberty many of ya;ll certainly did 'Gulotta explained that Ekstrum had been enraged by his perception that the shooter had acted out of ideological motivations.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AzSkinsFan63 Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 http://www.theatlanticwire.com/opinions/view/opinion/Firefighter-Who-Refused-Giffords-Call-Says-Hes-Misunderstood-7040 Ekstrum's crew, specially trained for large medical emergencies, was only dispatched an hour and a half after the shooting. Still, the incident caused a delay. ---------- Post added February-18th-2011 at 05:25 PM ---------- So let's put 2 and 2 together shall we.... Since they were dispatched an hour and a half after the shooting, I think it's probably safe to say they were watching the news on the situation telling them it was Sarah Palin's fault and the other guys were probably saying..What???? He then becomes enraged to the point he can no longer do his job...are you kidding me? just a hunch....I could be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam@section118 Posted February 19, 2011 Author Share Posted February 19, 2011 I didn't know firefighters got to choose which emergencies they respond to. This came up on the news tonight. I was fascinated to learn that police officers in some states can recuse themselves for certain cases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 This came up on the news tonight.I was fascinated to learn that police officers in some states can recuse themselves for certain cases. Depends, i guess. If it's not an immediate emergency, I can see why cops with a personal connection to a victim or a suspect could recuse themselves. But can they in a 911 situation ? ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The 12th Commandment Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 I had a long conversation with a guy yesterday, and the subject matter was if we would be better off with a 24 hour news cycle.I know at times it is great to be informed without having to read a paper or a magazine, but in general, my answer is yes. I was thinking about the 24 hour news cycle the other day too. I've been without dtv for about 9 months now and the news on the networks over the air is the old timey kind with a half hour a day. I like it a lot better than the incessant fox or cnn that I had grown accustomed to. I do check cnn online and other sources when I'm looking into something in particular (and just to make sure nothing huge happened throughout the day) but the routine of getting your news at the same time everyday, cooked down to fit in half an hour is not so bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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