Toe Jam Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/02/16/israel-warns-act-iranian-warships-passing-suez-canal/# Israel is monitoring two Iranian warships about to pass through the Suez Canal for Syria and warn they might act. The Israeli navy will be tracking the two warships as they cross the Suez Canal for the Mediterranean Sea, according to defense officials. Israeli's Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman says that "Israel cannot ignore these provocations," according to ynetnews.com. "Unfortunately, the international community is not ready to deal with Iran's repeated provocations," Lieberman said, according to the Jerusalem Post. Lieberman added that the warships was "a provocation that proves Iran's nerve and self-esteem is growing from day to day." Iran announced plans to deploy warships near Israel and dock at a Syrian port for a year, IsraelNationalNews.com reports. A senior Israeli official tells the site that "Israel will know how to deal with it." click link for more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 So, the assumption is that Iran is in effect renting their navy to Syria? Wondering how much of a threat these ships supposedly represent to Israel. (Or are the ships going there so that they can escort the next patch of ships running the blockade of Hamas?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NavyDave Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 Is the 12th Imam our version of the guy with 666 on his head? I'm just asking because it appears it takes chaos on a full scale for the 12th Imam to return. Israel I would have no problem if, when the rest of the world sits on their hands when there is a major attack on your nation, you defend yourself to the fullest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 SO, if Israel attacks and provokes an incident, how will Iran handle the revolution that is sure to accompany the mobilization taking the military out of the country? Would the Iranian demonstrators move to seize power and call off the war? How would they react to a strike byu Israel on their homeland? Considering their domestic problem, this seems like a very foolish move on Iran's part. ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FanboyOf91 Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 SO, if Israel attacks and provokes an incident, how will Iran handle the revolution that is sure to accompany the mobilization taking the military out of the country?Would the Iranian demonstrators move to seize power and call off the war? Considering their domestic problem, this seems like a very foolish move on Iran's part. ~Bang Actually, Israel attacking the ships in international waters would be the perfect thing to undercut the demonstrators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 I am not seeing how. Unless you mean it gvives the gov't reason to crack down harder, or would it be because Iranian personel would be killed in the attack, and that would chnage their priority? ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 Israel I would have no problem if, when the rest of the world sits on their hands when there is a major attack on your nation, you defend yourself to the fullest. Funny how we got from "Naval vessels peacefully sailing to another nation's port" to "a major attack on Israel". But then, I consider the source. (Although my gut does say that if Israel thinks they've got a good enough reason, I think we'd all agree as to who's gonna win that fight.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpyaks3 Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 I am not seeing how.Unless you mean it gvives the gov't reason to crack down harder, or would it be because Iranian personel would be killed in the attack, and that would chnage their priority? ~Bang It can rally people around the country to an external enemy. If Israel attacks an Iranian warship focus changes from leadership to how Israel is attacking your warships. In theory it would increase nationalism and rally them around an Iranian identity, who knows if that would actually happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FanboyOf91 Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 I am not seeing how.Unless you mean it gvives the gov't reason to crack down harder, or would it be because Iranian personel would be killed in the attack, and that would chnage their priority? ~Bang :yes: Nobody likes their navy being attacked by foreigners. Edit: jpyaks said it better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpyaks3 Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 Funny how we got from "Naval vessels peacefully sailing to another nation's port" to "a major attack on Israel". But then, I consider the source. (Although my gut does say that if Israel thinks they've got a good enough reason, I think we'd all agree as to who's gonna win that fight.) We have already seen Israel doesn't respect international waters or international law, it will be interesting if they will commit an act of war over ships using international canal and in international waters without provocation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 SO, if Israel attacks and provokes an incident, how will Iran handle the revolution that is sure to accompany the mobilization taking the military out of the country?Would the Iranian demonstrators move to seize power and call off the war? How would they react to a strike byu Israel on their homeland? Considering their domestic problem, this seems like a very foolish move on Iran's part. ~Bang Actually, I think that provoking some kind of conflict with Israel would be just what the regime wants. For one thing, the impression I get is that most of the folks in Iran feel the same way about their government that we do about Congress. But that they also feel the same way about their country that we feel about our country. A fight with Israel (or The Great Satan) might very well cause a instant surge in patriotism, within Iran. And would give the regime the mantle of wartime powers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 SO, if Israel attacks and provokes an incident, how will Iran handle the revolution that is sure to accompany the mobilization taking the military out of the country?Would the Iranian demonstrators move to seize power and call off the war? How would they react to a strike byu Israel on their homeland? Considering their domestic problem, this seems like a very foolish move on Iran's part. ~Bang Hate of Israel might actually temporarily unify all the factions. There's nothing to bring a country together like an attack on one of their own. Remember G W Bush with a 90% approval rating? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 We have already seen Israel doesn't respect international waters or international law, it will be interesting if they will commit an act of war over ships using international canal and in international waters without provocation. IMO? Not a chance. Peacefully sailing to Syria? Really hard to call that "threatening". And conducting a military operation in Egyptian territory, while Egypt is under military rule, and a constitutional committee is meeting, and when the Muslim "renounce the treaty with Israel" Brotherhood is playing nice and saying they won't try to take over the country? No. Israel's gonna keep very careful tabs on those ships. And it's entirely possible that those ships will do something, later, that Israel considered important enough to initiate that fight. But taking a publicly announced cruise to the Med isn't it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnyderShrugged Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 SO, if Israel attacks and provokes an incident, how will Iran handle the revolution that is sure to accompany the mobilization taking the military out of the country?Would the Iranian demonstrators move to seize power and call off the war? How would they react to a strike byu Israel on their homeland? Considering their domestic problem, this seems like a very foolish move on Iran's part. ~Bang I'm indifferent to Israel and even want our influence with them to dwindle as well as any aid we send them and other nations that don't need it. But.... I cant see how anyone could call Israel the "Provoker" in this one. Clearly Iran is being provocative by doing this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 I'm indifferent to Israel and even want our influence with them to dwindle as well as any aid we send them and other nations that don't need it. But.... I cant see how anyone could call Israel the "Provoker" in this one. Clearly Iran is being provocative by doing this. By peacefully sailing their ships to the port of a friendly country. Yep. That's a military provocation if there ever was one. ---------- Now, do I think Iran is up to something? I bet they are. The scenario I'm imagining is that a few weeks or months from now, Iran is going to announce that those ships are going to "escort" a "humanitarian aid convoy" to "relieve the suffering in Gaza". Then they'll have at least some justification. (Depending on your opinion of the morality of Israel's blockade). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 I can see how an attack by Israel on the ships could unify Iran, but couldn't the opposition see it as opportunity? Wouldn't it be just as unifying to topple the government and stop aggressions before they excalate further? I know there's no love for Israel, but is it possible that the pro- freedom movement would rather live peacefully, or will they continue the same tensions? ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnyderShrugged Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 By peacefully sailing their ships to the port of a friendly country. Yep. That's a military provocation if there ever was one. ---------- Now, do I think Iran is up to something? I bet they are. The scenario I'm imagining is that a few weeks or months from now, Iran is going to announce that those ships are going to "escort" a "humanitarian aid convoy" to "relieve the suffering in Gaza". Then they'll have at least some justification. (Depending on your opinion of the morality of Israel's blockade). thenyou agree with me in the end. Iran is acting provocatively in this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 I can see how an attack by Israel on the ships could unify Iran, but couldn't the opposition see it as opportunity?Wouldn't it be just as unifying to topple the government and stop aggressions before they excalate further? I know there's no love for Israel, but is it possible that the pro- freedom movement would rather live peacefully, or will they continue the same tensions? ~Bang Long term maybe. Short term it would be bad for the pro-dem movement in Iran imo. There are times when a nation forgets its differences and comes together under a common cause. Sometimes that can be a national disaster like Katrina, but it certainly happens after an attack like Pearl Harbor or 9/11. Iranians won't see themselves as the bad guys. They'll see their ships being attacked and their sailors being killed. Just to be contrarian to my own point of view, I suppose it is possible that Iranians could see this as a move that put their sons and daughters at unnecessary risk and make them even angrier at their own government. I think that's far less likely then them getting pissed off at and uniting against Israel, but I suppose it's possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 thenyou agree with me in the end. Iran is acting provocatively in this. Kicking in somebody's front door is provocation. Walking down the street as part of a suspected plan to kick in somebody's door, a few weeks from now, is not. Right now, Israel is acting more provocatively than Iran is. Iran is sailing their ships to an international port where they have been invited. Israel is threatening to attack them while in the territorial waters of somebody else's country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 I kinda agree with Larry. I don't really believe in pre-emptive strikes. Iran is certainly dangling bait. Israel should not bite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chump Bailey Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 Just to be contrarian to my own point of view, I suppose it is possible that Iranians could see this as a move that put their sons and daughters at unnecessary risk and make them even angrier at their own government. I think that's far less likely then them getting pissed off at and uniting against Israel, but I suppose it's possible. I see absolutely zero chance of an Israeli attack on Iran facilitating anything other than exacerbating the level of hatred and anti-Israel sentiment that already exists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 I do find myself wondering how good those Iranian ships are at, say, ASW, and whether we might have some assets over there keeping a covert eye on things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnyderShrugged Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 Kicking in somebody's front door is provocation. Walking down the street as part of a suspected plan to kick in somebody's door, a few weeks from now, is not. Right now, Israel is acting more provocatively than Iran is. Iran is sailing their ships to an international port where they have been invited. Israel is threatening to attack them while in the territorial waters of somebody else's country. though walking by a sworn enemy's house after a long history of animosity and not really having a good reason beyond "I can" is still provoking them. (again and for the record, I dont neccessarily disagree with you that Iran is technically doing nothing wrong, but they are certainly provoking in this) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chump Bailey Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 I do find myself wondering how good those Iranian ships are at, say, ASW, and whether we might have some assets over there keeping a covert eye on things. I would venture they're in all probability not all that well versed in much of anything regarding naval warefare. I'm sure we're keeping an eye on them. We were pretty spooked IIRC about their UAV technology though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 though walking by a sworn enemy's house after a long history of animosity and not really having a good reason beyond "I can" is still provoking them. Got it. If I walk to a friends house, where I've been invited, without ever once so much as setting foot on your property, and you threaten to kill me if I try it, then I'm provoking you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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