A Very Serious Question for ASF and Others: Why Don't You Walk Away?

[kleese]

First of all, I apologize if the thread title seems combative, whiny, or is construed as inciting something. I really struggled with how to word the title, and that's the best I could do. Please take the time to read my thoughts and not base your judgments on the thread title...I freely admit I probably did a poor job there.

As always, Snyder seems to be a hot topic on ES...and with the lawsuit and ASF's thread on his past business practices, things are simmering-hot on the Snyder front right now.

One thing is for sure, the man is truly hated by many Redskins fans and media alike. Many people feel as if he has destoyed something that was once great.

While I believe that people overrate the prestige of the organization prior to his arrival (I really believe it was almost all the Bethard-Gibbs regime and nothing else), I certainly accept the fact that Snyder has not done a good job since taking over for a myriad of reasons.

But my question is very, very simple: If you believe him to be as bad as many do...then why not walk away?

It's not a sarcastic question.

Dan Snyder is the owner of the Washington Redskins. Not you.

The Redskins are not a public trust. They are a private business.

Dan Snyder is not an elected official who is charged with carrying out your wishes and representing your best interests.

I own my own business, and while I think Snyder would be wise to run the Redskins as if they WERE a public trust, he is not obligated to do so.

Let me ask you this...

Let's say there is a restaurant you've loved since you were a kid. Every week you and your family go there and you have the most wonderful experience. You love the food, the atmosphere, the service, the etc...Then one day, ownership changes hands and things go down hill. You no longer like the service, you think the atmosphere has taken a dive, you think the food stinks, and most importantly, you can't stand the new owner who you feel has taken something you once loved and ruined it.

Would you keep going?

Would you keep paying for the linguini even if you knew it was going to suck before you ate it?

Some may reply that if the customers scream loud enough, they can create a change.

But in this case, there is no "supervisor" to ask to speak to....the supervisor is the very person you want gone. And he answers to no one.

If your real problem is with Dan Snyder the man, then I honestly don't think you will get any joy from the Redskins for the next 20-30 years at least. He isn't going anywhere. I believe he will own the Redskins until the day he dies.

And if your problem TRULY is with Dan Snyder the man, then it really shouldn't matter if we win or lose. If you think he's a despicable scumbag who scams people and treats his employees and customers like garbage, will you absolve him of that if someday the Redskins are champions? And if the answer is yes, then isn't that hypocritical?

JKC is long gone. So is RFK. And Gibbs. And Bethard. None of them are coming back. And Snyder isn't going away. THIS IS THE WASHINGTON REDSKINS.

And if we do someday hoist the trophy again...you know who will be front and center having champagne dumped all over him? Dan Snyder. Will that ruin it for you?

Here's my take:

I don't care about Dan Snyder. I don't think he "ruined" the Redskins because you can't ruin memories. The organization he took over was in shambles...all he's done is fail to fix it. This may sound harsh but I really don't care how he treats his limo driver or his secretary of if he defrauded long distance customers 12 years ago. For all I know Jack Kent Cooke could have been a cheating, coke-snorting, womanizing, lying, cheating, scoundrel....I was never rooting for him anyway.

The Redskins are what they are to ME. It's personal. It goes very deep and it goes deeper than Dan Snyder or anyone else. He can't control the way I feel about the Redskins. I understand I have no power in the situation in terms of the big picture. But I do understand that Dan Snyder owes me NOTHING. He is a businessman. If I don't like the way he does business, I can walk away at any point. I am not obligated to pay one penny to him from here on out or spend one more minute following his team. I can walk right now. And so can you.

But I choose to stay for my own reasons. I am comfortable with this decision because I understand what's going on and what matters. My feelings about Snyder won't really change if we win the next six Super Bowls either, because I've never really developed feelings about him in the first place.

There are 31 other teams in the NFL..if supporting a team that has an owner you like and respect is paramount, then you have plenty of options. You are not a hostage.

I stick around because being a fan of the Redskins is still something I very much enjoy. Who knows how much time any of us have left. I'm certainly not going to spend my time hating a man I don't know.

[skinsnshanny]

I was a football fan and a redskins fan before Dan Snyder. I love this area and this city. Why should i let one man, even though he owns the team, dictate my support for the local sports team and thus the city?

[kleese]

I was a football fan and a redskins fan before Dan Snyder. I love this area and this city. Why should i let one man, even though he owns the team, dictate my support for the local sports team and thus the city?

You shouldn't. And that's exactly my point.

[SavannahP]

Very nice! Well said and I could not agree more with you on this topic.

[skinsnshanny]

You shouldn't. And that's exactly my point.

But this lawsuit aside, i really dont support Dan as a person or owner. I spent many years defending him against my friends who dislike him. But now with everything added together, I can no longer defend his actions. He has messed up a lot....too many times....and most importantly (for me)...in too many realms.

It isnt just football player personnel decisions, it isnt just football pricing decisions (parking, charging for practice), it isnt just his reluctance (former?) to take blame or face the media, it isnt just all his bad business practices (suing fans, not allowing signs, six flags problems), it isnt just his misclassifying problems to make more money (not allowing walking), it isnt just his treament of people on the team (Zorn), it isnt just his actual personality (using a helicotper, requiring people to call him Mr. Snyder, putting ice cream in a coaches fridge), and it isnt just telling the fans that every year is our year (the future is now).

It is everything combined. I am sick of it. I am sick of being treated like I (we/the fans) dont mean anything. And i will always love the redskins and if that means when we do well, Dan does well and is happy, great, i wont care, because seeing this team do well is great for me and great for the city.

[Bubble Screen]

I think a great number of fans HAVE walked away, and they're currently wearing black and gold. UGH.

[Conn]

I think a great number of fans HAVE walked away, and they're currently wearing black and gold. UGH.

Honestly, I'd rather NOT have them then. My only regret is that they've defected to a team who has the organizational structure to basically be constantly competitive. Actually, that might be a plus, because we won't get those fans back some day.

[kleese]

But this lawsuit aside, i really dont support Dan as a person or owner. I spent many years defending him against my friends who dislike him. But now with everything added together, I can no longer defend his actions. He has messed up a lot....too many times....and most importantly (for me)...in too many realms.

It isnt just football player personnel decisions, it isnt just football pricing decisions (parking, charging for practice), it isnt just his reluctance (former?) to take blame or face the media, it isnt just all his bad business practices (suing fans, not allowing signs, six flags problems), it isnt just his misclassifying problems to make more money (not allowing walking), it isnt just his treament of people on the team (Zorn), it isnt just his actual personality (using a helicotper, requiring people to call him Mr. Snyder, putting ice cream in a coaches fridge), and it isnt just telling the fans that every year is our year (the future is now).

It is everything combined. I am sick of it. I am sick of being treated like I (we/the fans) dont mean anything. And i will always love the redskins and if that means when we do well, Dan does well and is happy, great, i wont care, because seeing this team do well is great for me and great for the city.

My point is that is those things REALLY matter to people then it shouldn't matter if we go 3-13 or 13-3. I find it hypocritical for people to cite his poor business and ethics practices, by then stating it would all be OK if we won. IMO, you either take a stand against something you don't believe in or you don't. If you truly believe him to a horrible d-bag, then winning won't change that. Nothing will.

[grantarchy]

I get so tired of the whole "why don't you guys just leave if you're so unhappy" argument. Maybe if you're so tired of people being disgusted with the owner you're the one who should leave. If it bothers you that much, just walk away. Find a team with a good owner that you can root for without the malcontents ruining your kumbaya experience. I mean, what's the difference? You're somehow a better fan than I am because you're OK with suckhole Snyder, and everyone else should just stop complaining? Who says that because I can't stand Snyder that I am not just as much a Redskins fan as you? This isn't a restaurant where you can walk across the street and find a better one, where all of a sudden you say "hey, I think I'm going to root for another team". I remember several years ago ... maybe about 10 or so ... I became aware of people starting to refer to teams as products ... "we're going to put a better product on the field" ... I remember that it struck me as very wrong on many levels. That seems to be your mentality, that this is just a product and if you don't like the product, then find another one. Problem is, I never considered the Redskins a product. If you think it's like a dime a dozen restaurant maybe you're the one who should find another one. Then you can just rationally discuss well thought out decisions made by the owners instead of the consistant load of drama that qualifies as news under Snyder.

[kleese]

I get so tired of the whole "why don't you guys just leave if you're so unhappy" argument. Maybe if you're so tired of people being disgusted with the owner you're the one who should leave. If it bothers you that much, just walk away. Find a team with a good owner that you can root for without the malcontents ruining your kumbaya experience. I mean, what's the difference? You're somehow a better fan than I am because you're OK with suckhole Snyder, and everyone else should just stop complaining? Who says that because I can't stand Snyder that I am not just as much a Redskins fan as you? This isn't a restaurant where you can walk across the street and find a better one, where all of a sudden you say "hey, I think I'm going to root for another team". I remember several years ago ... maybe about 10 or so ... I became aware of people starting to refer to teams as products ... "we're going to put a better product on the field" ... I remember that it struck me as very wrong on many levels. That seems to be your mentality, that this is just a product and if you don't like the product, then find another one. Problem is, I never considered the Redskins a product. If you think it's like a dime a dozen restaurant maybe you're the one who should find another one. Then you can just rationally discuss well thought out decisions made by the owners instead of the consistant load of drama that qualifies as news under Snyder.

I won't walk away because I don't want to walk away and I'm not encouraging anyone else to do so either. If you read my post I did my best to convey it was an honest question, not a sarcastic one.

There's no kumbaya for me...we suck and it all starts with Snyder. I understand that. However, I suppose where we disagree is that I don't feel like he owes me anything. There are other options...there are other teams, other sports, other things to do on Sunday afternoons...I choose not to do those things because I would still rather follow the Redskins. Ultimately, it's my choice. Many people feel as if they are being held hostage by Snyder, but I don't.

[Thinking Skins]

I don't like the restaurant analogy you gave. Its hard to imagine a restaurant being a part of me, or a part of a community like the Redskins are. So I'll compare it to some other things I'm pretty passionate about.

First lets go with my college. Now, I went to this college, so that place will always be a part of me, and to an extent I'll always be connected to it. If they hire a new president and the school's rankings drop, its not necessarily going to affect the outcomes of my individual life. But I'm still very interested in the decisions they make on a president because I want my college to stay a well respected institution. I don't want to say I went to college x and and have people ask me question about this controversy or that controversy. I'd like people to say, "oh yeah college x, they always put out great scholars". To me, being a Skins fan isn't like just going to a restaurant and hoping for good food because that simplifies it too much. Just like I only went to one college, I've only ever rooted for one pro football team (whereas I've been to many restaurants). I can easily say, "if this happens, I'll stop being a fan", but thats one of those threats that goes along with the ones we make as a kid, "if you do this, I'll never talk to yo again", then they do it and it becomes a game of chicken and we realize that we love the Redskins too much to just let go.

Or you could say its like a sick twisted punishment where I keep repeatedly seeing a loved one make a dumb decision and there's nothing I can do about it. So I try to scream louder and try to find other ways to get to them. But they just can't hear me, or they won't listen. So I go back and forth between sadness at their situation and just anger and hate because of what they're doing. Maybe some just cut off family members - call them cancers, say they're bringing others down. Maybe one day I'll call Dan Snyder and the Redskins a cancer on my life, and just cut them loose. But even getting rid of a tumor is not an easy process, mind you.

[grantarchy]

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[SirClintonPortis]

OP, Can you please form a logically cogent and relevant point because I can't quite seem to fathom what exactly are you trying to say.

[kleese]

I don't like the restaurant analogy you gave. Its hard to imagine a restaurant being a part of me, or a part of a community like the Redskins are. So I'll compare it to some other things I'm pretty passionate about.

First lets go with my college. Now, I went to this college, so that place will always be a part of me, and to an extent I'll always be connected to it. If they hire a new president and the school's rankings drop, its not necessarily going to affect the outcomes of my individual life. But I'm still very interested in the decisions they make on a president because I want my college to stay a well respected institution. I don't want to say I went to college x and and have people ask me question about this controversy or that controversy. I'd like people to say, "oh yeah college x, they always put out great scholars". To me, being a Skins fan isn't like just going to a restaurant and hoping for good food because that simplifies it too much. Just like I only went to one college, I've only ever rooted for one pro football team (whereas I've been to many restaurants). I can easily say, "if this happens, I'll stop being a fan", but thats one of those threats that goes along with the ones we make as a kid, "if you do this, I'll never talk to yo again", then they do it and it becomes a game of chicken and we realize that we love the Redskins too much to just let go.

Or you could say its like a sick twisted punishment where I keep repeatedly seeing a loved one make a dumb decision and there's nothing I can do about it. So I try to scream louder and try to find other ways to get to them. But they just can't hear me, or they won't listen. So I go back and forth between sadness at their situation and just anger and hate because of what they're doing. Maybe some just cut off family members - call them cancers, say they're bringing others down. Maybe one day I'll call Dan Snyder and the Redskins a cancer on my life, and just cut them loose. But even getting rid of a tumor is not an easy process, mind you.

Good response. I feel the same way.

But what I love about the Redskins has NEVER had anything to do with parking passes, concourses, jumbo screens, long distance rates, etc.... it's all about the team, the games, my personal experiences. If the those other things really matter to you then they should matter regardless of the on-field product. If you have a personal or moral issue supporting a man like Snyder, then it shouldn't matter whether we win or lose.

To me, I ignore the stories, rumors, etc... because it doesn't matter to me when we're 3-13 and it won't matter to me when we're 13-3. Point being this is who he IS...it isn't going to change. Are you going to LIKE him if we start winning?

[BadKarma]

You are confused on one point: the Redskins ARE a public trust, they are the birth right of any fan who grew up in DC watching football under real ownership. To think any different is being small minded. We cannot let one worm ruin something that was has been so deeply ingrained into our souls, the worm must go, not the fans.

[Vilandil Tasardur]

I've asked myself this question many times, but not for the reasons you mention, and not because we suck. I'll try to explain, though I'm not sure if everyone will take the time to sift through it. And I know some will automatically throw me out because I haven't "always" been a skins fan and say they'd rather not have me anyways. As though fans from life are better in some way.

I was born in Wisconsin and grew up a Packers fan. I was raised in D.C. however, and eventually the Redskins grew on me more. Going to the games and the like started to win me over. When Ted Thompson took over the Packers and it became clear they were phasing out Favre (whom I idolized) I lost all desire to watch the Pack play. I will always root for Favre, but I became a true skins fan. That same year my brother and I got season tickets and I was hooked, totally a skins fan. It also happened to be Gibb's first year back.

Well, three things happened that have nearly ruined football in general, and definitely hurt my love for the skins. The first was Favre retiring. It was easy to hate the Pack for moving on while he was on the Vikings lighting them up. With him safely gone, there is a part of me that feels like I can accept Thompson and my old, hometown team. The second was the passing of Sean. I loved watching him play maybe even more then Brett. He was a treat, and having played safety myself, he made me love football. I haven't enjoyed a Redskins season since. The third factor was moving to Pittsburg to go to school here. The people here are obnoxious and make me almost hate football because of how ignorant they are.

But the truth is, I'm not struggling with my fandom because I hate snyder. I don't hate the organization. The truth is, I'm struggling with my fandom because I hate the players. Every last one of them. I hate Landry, and his punk, all skill and no film room, attitude. I hate Chris Cooley because of how everyone loves him for being "goofy" and "funny" when all I see is an immature punk who ***** about no one being a leader on offense despite being the longest tenured offensive player. I hate Carlos Rogers and his mediocre play and sense of entitlement. I hate Santana and his "I'll show up every fourth game" tendency. I hate Portis, with a burning passion.

Pretty much the only players I like on this team anymore are Fletcher, Orakpo, and Hall. And I say to myself: I could watch a 4-12 team every year, even if I despised the owner and hated management, if I liked the players. But if I hate, sometimes even loathe some to most of the players, why am I a fan? Who am I rooting for? Since Sean died, it's been lame. I used to care about stats like what rank our D was and who was the interceptions leader. Now it's all moot. I can swallow a bad owner, but if I can't swallow the players?

I don't know. I'm sorry for the rant. I don't mean to derail the thread. I just wanted to point out, it's not just a hate for Snyder, it's a hate for over half our players.

[Atlanta Skins Fan]

A Very Serious Question for ASF and Others: Why Don't You Walk Away?

The Redskins are family.

I didn't choose my parents or the Redskins, and I don't walk away from family.

The family to which I refer are people like Joe Gibbs, Art Monk and Darrell Green in their prime. They include good players, bad players, and even guys who didn't make the final roster as rookies, all these many years. They include friends with whom I've rooted for the team. They include classmates with whom I played high school football in D.C., aspiring to be a little like Washington Redskins. They include members of this forum since 2002 with whom I've debated all these years. All these people are my Redskins family.

Why should I leave my family?

At this point, my experience of Redskins family has more to do with forums like this, than the players on the field at any given time. There's a rootless, passing quality to Redskins players under Snyder. The better people here and in places like CPND outlast the better Redskins players.

Over at CPND, there's a guy named Amudgarden who's a better forum member than any Redksin player in recent years. Terry's a super member there. They don't even know I exist, but I consider them Redskins family, much like my favorite players on the field. I find myself missing forum members like Ball Coach Spurrier more than the real Steve Spurrier. Snyder has distanced me a bit from the actual players of any given year.

At the same time, hardship brings out the best in some people and some fans. Dan Snyder is like cancer in the family. It's upsetting, but it's no cause to walk away.

Out in the real world, I am challenged daily on a grave basis. By comparison, the Redskins family remains a pleasant diversion. It's always been this way. No matter the score or the owner, being a Redskins fan has always felt like coming home.

[Laxpunk2006]

I think you're going to catch a lot of flack, and obviously a lot of posters already aren't reading, or simply aren't comprehending what you're attempting to convey but I think this is a good post. It should create an interesting topic to discuss but I think you're just going to get flamed instead. Too bad.

[kleese]

You are confused on one point: the Redskins ARE a public trust, they are the birth right of any fan who grew up in DC watching football under real ownership. To think any different is being small minded. We cannot let one worm ruin something that was has been so deeply ingrained into our souls, the worm must go, not the fans.

At least you are on the right track....I just think you may spend your entire life fighting for something that you can't achieve though. While I ABSOLUTELY agree that the Redskins should be run like a public trust, technically, they are not. This isn't Egypt where we can storm the streets and remove the dictator. There are no elections. It's not even a matter of money...if he doesn't want to sell, he doesn't have to. The fans may be able to scare Snyder into firing Vinny or a coach or something, but I'm not sure we'll ever convince him to fire himself.

And here's my point...if you believe him to be a worm, will you find him less wormlike if we win? If he's ruining your experience because you detest who he is, then why would it matter if we suddenly became a good team? Point being...I don't think he's going anywhere. And if you problem is with HIM, then I don't think you are going to find peace as fan, period.

[skinsnshanny]

And here's my point...if you believe him to be a worm, will you find him less wormlike if we win? If he's ruining your experience because you detest who he is, then why would it matter if we suddenly became a good team? Point being...I don't think he's going anywhere. And if you problem is with HIM, then I don't think you are going to find peace as fan, period.

1. The redskins winning regardless of if it brings Dan happyness, will make me happy. I dont have to be happy for dan, i can be happy for the city and the team.

2. To get those W's Dan will have to change a lot of his current practices.

3. If the W's start coming, charging people for a good product fair and valid unlike charging people for a bad product.

[kleese]

The Redskins are family.

I didn't choose my parents or the Redskins, and I don't walk away from family.

The family to which I refer are people like Joe Gibbs, Art Monk and Darrell Green in their prime. They include good players, bad players, and even guys who didn't make the final roster as rookies, all these many years. They include friends with whom I've rooted for the team. They include classmates with whom I played high school football in D.C., aspiring to be a little like Washington Redskins. They include members of this forum since 2002 with whom I've debated all these years. All these people are my Redskins family.

Why should I leave my family?

At this point, my experience of Redskins family has more to do with forums like this, than the players on the field at any given time. There's a rootless, passing quality to Redskins players under Snyder. The better people here and in places like CPND outlast the better Redskins players.

Over at CPND, there's a guy named Amudgarden who's a better forum member than any Redksin player in recent years. Terry's a super member there. They don't even know I exist, but I consider them Redskins family, much like my favorite players on the field. I find myself missing forum members like Ball Coach Spurrier more than the real Steve Spurrier. Snyder has distanced me a bit from the actual players of any given year.

At the same time, hardship brings out the best in some people and some fans. Dan Snyder is like cancer in the family. It's upsetting, but it's no cause to walk away.

Out in the real world, I am challenged daily on a grave basis. By comparison, the Redskins family remains a pleasant diversion. It's always been this way. No matter the score or the owner, being a Redskins fan has always felt like coming home.

I couldn't agree more ASF...and Dan Snyder can't TOUCH any of those things you mentioned....this is my point. He can't ruin your personal relationships or your memories. How he treats his limo driver or phone customers doesn't affect how you feel about your family (Redskins family and real family) or anything else. Whatever sins he has committed, aren't yours, they are his. So, I will ask this question in all honesty...do you think you would have started the other thread if EVERYTHING we knew about Snyder was excactly the same, but we'd won three Super Bowls since he arrived?

I am a good person, a business owner, and I love the Redskins. That will never change. I hope people feel the exact opposite way about me as they do Snyder.

Dan Snyder can't "ruin" a damn thing for me.

[Vilandil Tasardur]

3. If the W's start coming, charging people for a good product fair and valid unlike charging people for a bad product.

You want him to lower prices when a team sucks and raise them when we're good again? Please, I have never felt like prices ad Fedex were terribly higher than what I assume is probably an NFL standard. And as a business man, why would you charge less than people are willing to pay. You think gas should be 1.50 because times are tough? As long as people will pay 4 dollars a gallon why shouldn't companies charge it?

[Conn]

I've asked myself this question many times, but not for the reasons you mention, and not because we suck. I'll try to explain, though I'm not sure if everyone will take the time to sift through it. And I know some will automatically throw me out because I haven't "always" been a skins fan and say they'd rather not have me anyways. As though fans from life are better in some way.

I was born in Wisconsin and grew up a Packers fan. I was raised in D.C. however, and eventually the Redskins grew on me more. Going to the games and the like started to win me over. When Ted Thompson took over the Packers and it became clear they were phasing out Favre (whom I idolized) I lost all desire to watch the Pack play. I will always root for Favre, but I became a true skins fan. That same year my brother and I got season tickets and I was hooked, totally a skins fan. It also happened to be Gibb's first year back.

Well, three things happened that have nearly ruined football in general, and definitely hurt my love for the skins. The first was Favre retiring. It was easy to hate the Pack for moving on while he was on the Vikings lighting them up. With him safely gone, there is a part of me that feels like I can accept Thompson and my old, hometown team. The second was the passing of Sean. I loved watching him play maybe even more then Brett. He was a treat, and having played safety myself, he made me love football. I haven't enjoyed a Redskins season since. The third factor was moving to Pittsburg to go to school here. The people here are obnoxious and make me almost hate football because of how ignorant they are.

But the truth is, I'm not struggling with my fandom because I hate snyder. I don't hate the organization. The truth is, I'm struggling with my fandom because I hate the players. Every last one of them. I hate Landry, and his punk, all skill and no film room, attitude. I hate Chris Cooley because of how everyone loves him for being "goofy" and "funny" when all I see is an immature punk who ***** about no one being a leader on offense despite being the longest tenured offensive player. I hate Carlos Rogers and his mediocre play and sense of entitlement. I hate Santana and his "I'll show up every fourth game" tendency. I hate Portis, with a burning passion.

Pretty much the only players I like on this team anymore are Fletcher, Orakpo, and Hall. And I say to myself: I could watch a 4-12 team every year, even if I despised the owner and hated management, if I liked the players. But if I hate, sometimes even loathe some to most of the players, why am I a fan? Who am I rooting for? Since Sean died, it's been lame. I used to care about stats like what rank our D was and who was the interceptions leader. Now it's all moot. I can swallow a bad owner, but if I can't swallow the players?

I don't know. I'm sorry for the rant. I don't mean to derail the thread. I just wanted to point out, it's not just a hate for Snyder, it's a hate for over half our players.

Now this is a man going through an identity crisis.

I'll think of a more meaningful response later, I promise. But this sucks for you.

---------- Post added February-6th-2011 at 01:59 AM ----------

OP, Can you please form a logically cogent and relevant point because I can't quite seem to fathom what exactly are you trying to say.

Then you need to read more closely, I think. I got it.

[Vilandil Tasardur]

Now this is a man going through an identity crisis.

I'll think of a more meaningful response later, I promise. But this sucks for you.

Lol, thanks. To be honest, it isn't normally this bad, superbowl weel has me very, very confused.

On the one hand, I have strong ties to the Packers. With Favre gone, I should be able to root for them and be happy. But a part of me feels like because Favre played this year, I can't root for GB until next year. And I still want to see Thompson eaten by a dog.

On the other hand, I live in Pittsburgh. I have every reason to want to see a Pittsburgh victory, if nothing else for the sake of happy professors and a happy boss monday morning. But I can't get over how annoying people are here. They haven't stopped playing that damn black and yellow song and they won't shut up about how they are the best. Worst of all, they always want to convert you. That's what I always respected about skins fans. Love us or hate us, we never want you to convert. We'd rather hate you. Here, they always want you to switch sides. And don't even get me started on the damn Pens.

So superbowl week is really just magnifying this identity crisis lol. :40oz:

[Atlanta Skins Fan]

So, I will ask this question in all honesty...do you think you would have started the other thread if EVERYTHING we knew about Snyder was excactly the same, but we'd won three Super Bowls since he arrived?

Asked already today, and answered twice.

Snyder is incapable of building a winning franchise. He is the cancer. The team will win only when he is in remission, or when he is defeated.

If Mike Shanahan and Bruce Allen succeed, they will win despite Snyder, with Snyder in remission.

Dave McKenna and fan revolts are like aggressive cancer treatments. If the host is sufficiently toxic to the cancer, the cancer may someday run its course and disappear.

Like any given Sunday, the outcome is always in doubt. I'm rooting for the home team.