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Tunisian Revolution and the Middle East

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5 minutes ago, StillUnknown said:


read the whole thread


the president and the people who stand by him are a damned disgrace


When even Lindsey Graham is attacking Trump, that speaks to how horrifyingly bad the decision is.  Everytime I think he can't do worse, Trump manages to find a way.  The harm this does to US middle east policy and with our other allies around the world will be felt for generations.

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40 minutes ago, twa said:



I can see why Trump likes him.  


How about if we define it as "unprovoked genocide"?  Would that label be acceptable to you?

Edited by Larry
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This is pretty much what people have been saying for years.  Russia targets doctors and hospitals in Syria to make opposition areas harder or survive in and get people to blame the rebels and others for failing to protect them.  It’s all about breaking their moral and forcing them to come begging to the regime.






As bad as the decision to pretty much let Iran and Russia do what they wanted in Syria looked at the time, it looks a lot worse in hindsight in my opinion. Countless dead, millions of refugees, and the destabilization of Europe and US as well somewhat.


 I still remember Obama aids like Malley and Rhodes arguing to let Iran have their way and stay out of it.  And I remember Obama boasting about how Putin would get stuck in a quagmire and he was welcome to Syria. 


That a being said, I’m a lot less sure now of what we cold have done to keep things from spiraling out of control.  We probably could have gotten Assad out if we had wanted to and likely could have done so in a way that minimized chaos in the aftermath if we put in the work to do so.  We could have done more to help refugees and opposition areas to lesson suffering and make them less fertile grounds for extremists.  


But it wouldn't It have been easy and would have required much more commitment and honesty from us and help from other nations not wanting to just manipulate factions for their own ends.  


And in the end we would need some way to deal with Russia and Iran, just as we are going to need a way to deal with them and Turkey now if we want or keep things from getting really really bad.  If we care about what happens there and how it affects the rest of the world....

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6 hours ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

I've said this before regarding other topics but fits here also.


Before we decide what we should have done/be doing, we need to decide if we want to be the world's police. 

We can’t solve people’s problems for them, but I think we have a responsibility to do our part to help the world and humanity and look out for our own interest as well.  


Actions and inaction both have consequences.  Events effect us even when they happen across the world from us.  We can’t save everyone, but we also can’t sit back and expect things to go well for us and the world around us if we try to isolate ourselves from it.


It’s all a matter of determining where and when and how to apply our resources and when to focus on ourselves instead.  But whatever we do or don’t do we should go forward with as much understanding of the potential short term and long term consequences as possible.

Edited by visionary
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1 hour ago, visionary said:

We can’t solve people’s problems for them, but I think we have a responsibility to do our part to help the world and humanity and look out for our own interest as well.  

I'd like to see Britian or France or someone take the lead occasionally.  But if we want to be the world police or looking out for resources we need or whatever, we need to remember how much money and resources and blood it costs.  All in or all out.  Halfway just costs more in the end.

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