ESPN Draftwatch: Skins @ #10

[wilco_holland]

Can Barnes replace Rogers and actualy catch the ball? Maybe giving up a little of coverage ability in return for 4-6 INTS is preferrable?

It looks to me like Barnes plays different then all our other corners, he is way closer to the LOS and plays more fysical. I love to see more of that, just to see if he is the real deal.

[papaSkins27]

AJ Green or Marcell Dareus

That's who I WANT with our #1 based on our needs today, but I believe both will be gone by the time we pick.

I'd also be thrilled with Patrick Patterson but he'll be gone #2 overall, or even Andrew Luck if we dump McNabb somewhere like AZ or CAR for picks and trade up, but again those are both unlikely scenarios.

So I'm getting ready for our early to mid-range pick being Julio Jones or Mark Ingram with all of the above are off the board. Followed by the best Center/Guard available in the top of the 2nd and lots of defense through the rest of the draft.

[honejc]

the only rankings that the skins seem to always move up in is the draft...

[addicted]

Here's my plan for the offseason. If what many of you are saying is true that we can't go offensive line with a top 10 draft pick then the answer is to do one of the following for max return on the teams rebuilding plan:

Option A - Players for picks. We need to package a TE - Cooley or Davis doesn't matter - and McNabb and ship them to Arizona for multiple picks in the 2-4th rounds. The Cardinals would get instant improvement at QB and TE areas where they have need and in return we would get there 2nd, 3rd, and 4th picks. Arizona could then use there first for a RB and be greatly improved at all of the skill positions and keep Fitzgerald happy for another year. We would get three higher round picks at the cost of a weakness we have a strength at now and with the intention of drafting our Franchise QB along with the next generation of the Hogs. We'd need to pick up a free agent QB because there is no way in hell this town is going to have Rex Grossman as it's QB. If I were in charge I'd get Beck in the game now. We lose out we have better picks and see if he can move the offensive. Can't really lose if we lose. Along with this I'd trade Hanyesworth and we now have a lot of picks to improve the teams offensive line

Option B - Trade the first and a players for more picks. No one wants to trade up into the first round these days. So to entice teams to move up lets give them a player too. We trade them Cooley or McNabb for there 2, 3.and 5. A few teams are a couple of players away who might be interested in this. We then have multiple 2's and a 3rd and 4th round pick we don't have now.

Option C - Go all in for the Hogs and the Franchise QB. This is the year that we need to follow up on the plan of rebuilding the offensive line. We can not forget that we also need a franchise QB. Without these two things the offense won't work. This year in our wins we scored a combined 82 points (13 + 17 + 16 + 17 + 19). We need to block better, protect better, and dominate the line of scrimmage. Then this offense will get going. The Defense sucks there is no denying that however what's the worst thing about Shannahan's drafting record? The man can't spot Defensive players. Shannahan can find offensive weapons. We need to play to the coaches strengths not his weaknesses. Offensive lines are delicate and take a while to gel. Great offensive lines are together for a long time, learn to trust each other, learn how to play together, etc. Now combine all of this and it makes the most sense to me that we built the offensive line this season. If we can't draft an offensive linemen with our first and no teams are willing to trade with us then it makes sense to me that with that first pick we draft our Aaron Rogers or our Mike Vick so he can sit and learn under McNabb and with our other picks we draft all offensive linemen. Doing this and hitting on it is huge. First our future QB situation is settled. Second we protect McNabb better next season and grow our offensive line. Guards and Centers. In Free Agency we bring in our Defensive Linemen, re-sign Rogers, re-sign McIntosh, and Golston. As well we bring in Shaun Hill from Detroit and get rid of Grossman, sign a RB like Ahmad Bradshaw who's 27 or Deangelo Williams, re-sign Moss and sign Braylon Edwards or Santonio Holmes whichever the Jets decide is second fiddle to them and we are good. If we've really cleared the cap then we could afford to do something like this. We have a complete team makeover, our franchise QB of the future, our new and improved offensive line and new offensive weapons at the price of the teams defense. Team defense is what is winning us games but we have to balance this team better to have a shot next year. And we will never turn the offense around until we address the offensive line and this position needs depth. We have the leagues worst depth at this most important position and it's time that stops.

[SkinsTillIDie]

Any post that suggests trading players for picks needs to be aware: you are almost undoubtedly overrating (overvaluing) our players. As we tend to do.

We'll be lucky if we get a 6th for Haynesworth. He's not coming back next year, everyone in the league knows that.

Cooley is a good tight end in a league when almost every team in the league has one now -- good pass-catching tight ends are becoming easier and easier to find in the draft, younger, cheaper and more mold-able than Cooley is. Not too add that he'll be 29 next season, and was never an elite athlete as his position to begin with. He's broken far less tackles this year than he ever used to. We'd be lucky to get a 4th round pick, and he's more valuable to us than a 4th rounder (who probably wouldn't even make the team, let's be honest)

Davis - he's athletic, but raw, with terrible hands, and will be up for a new contract very soon. His distinct lack of production this year has crushed his trade value. We wouldn't get better than a 4th for him. At best.

McNabb's not going anywhere, Fletcher's not going anywhere, keep dreaming folks.

Any offseason plan that is predicated on getting more picks is simply wishful thinking.

[Riggo#44]

Tampa Bay, @Jax, @Dallas, Giants.

I see us winning 2, maybe 3 of those. 7-9 or 8-8, which will put us picking 10-15 range. IMO.

I'll take you up on that bet, I am saying 6-10, they'll pull one out against either Tampa or Jax. No way they beat Dallas in Dallas, or the Giants who look like they'll still be fighting for a playoff spot...

[Skinsinparadise]

Any post that suggests trading players for picks needs to be aware: you are almost undoubtedly overrating (overvaluing) our players. As we tend to do.

We'll be lucky if we get a 6th for Haynesworth. He's not coming back next year, everyone in the league knows that.

Cooley is a good tight end in a league when almost every team in the league has one now -- good pass-catching tight ends are becoming easier and easier to find in the draft, younger, cheaper and more mold-able than Cooley is. Not too add that he'll be 29 next season, and was never an elite athlete as his position to begin with. He's broken far less tackles this year than he ever used to. We'd be lucky to get a 4th round pick, and he's more valuable to us than a 4th rounder (who probably wouldn't even make the team, let's be honest)

Davis - he's athletic, but raw, with terrible hands, and will be up for a new contract very soon. His distinct lack of production this year has crushed his trade value. We wouldn't get better than a 4th for him. At best.

McNabb's not going anywhere, Fletcher's not going anywhere, keep dreaming folks.

Any offseason plan that is predicated on getting more picks is simply wishful thinking.

I agree though on one of the 980 talk shows yesterday one of the commentators said they talked to an NFL source who thought the Skins could still get a 4th for Haynsworth. But just in general teams are stingy about giving picks. Teams aren't like Vinny who trade 3rd and 4th rounders for TJ Duckett, or a 3rd for old veteran QB like MB, or a 5th for special teams player James Thrash. Maybe that's the problem here we are looking at it from that perspective. With the rest of the NFL, a Duckett at the time you'd likely get for a 6th rounder, ditto MB, Thrash 7th rounder? If you study draft trades especially of late teams are real stingy.

Edit: on another note, I looked at Arizona's schedule for the rest of the season, pretty easy, they can pass us.

[Riggo#44]

Any post that suggests trading players for picks needs to be aware: you are almost undoubtedly overrating (overvaluing) our players. As we tend to do.

We'll be lucky if we get a 6th for Haynesworth. He's not coming back next year, everyone in the league knows that.

Cooley is a good tight end in a league when almost every team in the league has one now -- good pass-catching tight ends are becoming easier and easier to find in the draft, younger, cheaper and more mold-able than Cooley is. Not too add that he'll be 29 next season, and was never an elite athlete as his position to begin with. He's broken far less tackles this year than he ever used to. We'd be lucky to get a 4th round pick, and he's more valuable to us than a 4th rounder (who probably wouldn't even make the team, let's be honest)

Davis - he's athletic, but raw, with terrible hands, and will be up for a new contract very soon. His distinct lack of production this year has crushed his trade value. We wouldn't get better than a 4th for him. At best.

McNabb's not going anywhere, Fletcher's not going anywhere, keep dreaming folks.

Any offseason plan that is predicated on getting more picks is simply wishful thinking.

This is dead on. I'd love for someone to give us a 2nd rounder for Davis or Cooley -- as much as I'd miss Capt. Chaos -- it ain't happening. Can we please ship Haynesworth off to Buffalo or some other place that is miserable to play in the winter? Just to spite him?

People clamoring for McNabb to be moved, the coaching staff to be fired (inlcuding Haslett, who I am not a fan of), yadda, yadda, yadda, are part of the problem: impatience. This organization made sweeping changes last year. Shocker, I know. But let's at least give it time before we say it doesn't work.

Given the labor strife and the pending lockout, I don't see ANYONE moving up in the 1st round easily...this is going to be a very interesting off-season.

[NavyDave]

If we could get a second and fifth for Cooley and a second for Haynesworth, we still have a first rounder and three second rounders. I could live with that.

Evidence that the water in Texas is tainted with drugs if you think we can get a second for Haynesworth now.

[Mr. Sinister]

Evidence that the water in Texas is tainted with drugs if you think we can get a second for Haynesworth now.

At this point, the most you would probably be able to get for Haynesworth is a 4th round pick.

[Skinsinparadise]

Evidence that the water in Texas is tainted with drugs if you think we can get a second for Haynesworth now.

Agree. We have Keim, Russell, and Reid all say at different times that the best offer the Skins could get for Haynesworth is a 4th rounder and that's before this week's mess. I don't know where the 2nd rounder stuff is coming from aside from that is what many speculated Shanny wanted for him? At this point IMO it would be a homerun to get a 4th rounder for him.

[PorkSkins]

There are six teams ahead of us who could potentially draft a QB. Half of those could draft a RB. We may get the short end again.

[Dick Edds]

I still think we need another OT (LT or RT) ... I know we got Trent Williams (he's a keeper at LT) and Jamaal Brown, but we still need depth ... and I'm not sold on Brown at RT. If anything, we could draft a RT and move Jamaal Brown to back-up LT. We know for a FACT, that at some point in the season injuries are going to occur.

As nice as it would be to get Mark Ingram or AJ Green ... IMO it makes more sens to get a first time FA WR and/or RB.. We need skill players that already know what it takes to succeed in the NFL. We can't spend another 3 years hoping a high draft pick can become a starter at wide-out. If there is no OL with the right value at our spot, we need to find the best NT/DE we can.

Both lines needs a serious injection of youth and depth. Skill players can be found in other ways, without spending high draft picks. We should all know that skill players most likely will not have success unless the big guys in front of them are able to handle their own. You can never have too many OL/DL'man ... I'm surprised folks still look at our roster and only focus on garnering starters at each position, rather than filling the most important spots with best legit depth/back-ups we can get.

I think we have some raw talent on the OL with Montgomery/Cook/Capers, etc ...but we can't rely on Art Hicks or even Mike Williams coming back. I'm thinking Derrick Dockery and Mike Willaims suffer the same fate. They are too big and not mobile enough for the ZBS.

Just my $.02.

[Crazy Levi]

So Cooley, Fletch, and Haynesworth and we could (possibly ) get 2 second rounders, a fourth, and two fifths?

So we'd have, by round: a 1,2,2,2,4,5,5,5,6,7 Sounds good to me.

.

Of course this sounds good. Because it's too good to be true.

We ain't getting **** for Al. We also aren't getting a 2nd and 5th for Cooley, that's nuts. He's had a crappy year, everyone saw it. We'd be lucky to get a 3rd for him.

This is the usual Skins fantasyland fan stuff. I don't see us having ANY players we can trade for real value. Might be able to get a couple 3rd or 4th picks for guys like Moss and Cooley but there's very little of value on this roster.

[S.T.real,lights,out]

There are six teams ahead of us who could potentially draft a QB. Half of those could draft a RB. We may get the short end again.

I see almost every mock having us take Jones in the 1st and the RB from Illin. in the 2nd.

[Mr. Sinister]

I see almost every mock having us take Jones in the 1st and the RB from Illin. in the 2nd.

They aren't taking into account Shanhans RB draft history. He rarely takes RB's that high. If I had a hunch, I'd say that we either go OL or LB in the 2nd.

[Dukes and Skins]

They aren't taking into account Shanhans RB draft history. He rarely takes RB's that high. If I had a hunch, I'd say that we either go OL or LB in the 2nd.

He rarely does but there are exceptions to the rule with him(Portis and Tatum Bell) I don't mind Mikel Leshoure as he's a good RB prospect but we're better off filling our needs in other places before we go for a RB

[Riggo#44]

He rarely does but there are exceptions to the rule with him(Portis and Tatum Bell) I don't mind Mikel Leshoure as he's a good RB prospect but we're better off filling our needs in other places before we go for a RB

Yes: OG and C...Wisnewski, Hudson, Pouncy Ijalalnaflalalalalala from Villanova...someone like that...

[Dukes and Skins]

Yes: OG and C...Wisnewski, Hudson, Pouncy Ijalalnaflalalalalala from Villanova...someone like that...

Personally I've stated this as being my ideal scenario but here's what I'd do

pick 7 trade to pick 17 for 17 and a 2nd

17: Allen Bailey DE Miami

2nd: Von Miller OLB Texas A&M

2nd: Rodney Hudson OG FSU

FA: Sign Ryan Kalil, Davin Joseph

Just something I'd do if I were able to run the team but then again I'm just a fan haha

[SKOALSKIN]

Rodney Hudson would be a huge get for us.

[Dukes and Skins]

Rodney Hudson would be a huge get for us.

The perfect ZBS fit for us especially with how he plays LG and would instantly form a great tandem with Trent Williams for a long time.

[papaSkins27]

I see almost every mock having us take Jones in the 1st and the RB from Illin. in the 2nd.

I would ****ing love that. WR and RB to be excited about, giving McNabb some legit weapons to work with. As long as we hit up interior O-line heavy in FA and Defense in the rest of the draft / FA I'd be pumped with Julio and Leshoure with our 1 & 2.

Update:

Mikel Leshoure, 6-1, 230 lbs.

Year / YDS / AVG / TD

2008 : 126 : 3.6 : 1

2009 : 734 : 6.8 : 5

2010 : 1513 : 6.0 : 14

Julio Jones, 6-4, 220 lbs.

Year / REC / YDS / AVG / TD

2008 : 58 : 924 : 15.9 : 4

2009 : 43 :596 : 13.9 : 4

2010 : 75 :1084 : 14.5 : 7