ESPN Draftwatch: Skins @ #10

[Chachie]

if we really focus, we can get to #5 or 6 by the end of the year....

Not even sure it will take much focus.

[Mr. Sinister]

This brings up the interesting, age-old conundrum... is it sacrilege to root for (or, at least, tolerate) losses against non-rivals in the waning weeks of a wasted and inconsequential season, for the sake of improved draft position?

Especially when the lasting fruits of any further "culture change" in 2010 will be diminished by the inevitable wholesale roster turnover this off-season?

My $0.02: I always want the Redskins to win, because it reflects on their honor and integrity, and even more so against division rivals. But at this point I wouldn't lose too much sleep over meaningless, narrow losses against Tampa or Jacksonville.

The way I see it, it doesn't really matter either way. This team isn't going anywhere, so whether someone decides to root for or against them is entirely their perogative. As far as the players are concerned, I'd expect them to be professionals and go out there and bust their asses, because thats what they're paid to do. But hey, thats just my opinion, others may feel differently.

[Grimm]

TO be honest i dont want Kemo on the team next year, hes not good he gets blown up every time hes on the field yeah hes really heavy but most of that weight is in his big head he has no strength.

agreed, he is terrible, has he made a play all season?

[Mr. Sinister]

"trade out" is the biggest cop out solution for these types of threads. Of course we'd love to grab another 2nd round pick and trade down 7 spots. That's not going to happen. So be a realist. Looking at whats available on the big board. We have a ton of needs (Nose tackle, Guard/Center, WR, Linebacker, Corner). Looking at the early big boards there are no olineman that fit our needs. They are all tackles that are over valued. We'll probably be looking at either a wide reciever or maybe Patterson. All of the D lineman seem to fit the 4-3 scheme. The lineman that best fits our scheme is Rodney Hudson, but he's a 2nd-3rd round grade.

This is what I'm getting at, rarelly do you get an oppurtunity to have a shot at a guy in the top 10, you shouldn't piss it away by reaching for a guy who probably belongs in the mid to bottom portion of the first round. I see teams do it all the time, and they end up paying for it.

[whitejimmy]

"trade out" is the biggest cop out solution for these types of threads. Of course we'd love to grab another 2nd round pick and trade down 7 spots. That's not going to happen. So be a realist. Looking at whats available on the big board. We have a ton of needs (Nose tackle, Guard/Center, WR, Linebacker, Corner). Looking at the early big boards there are no olineman that fit our needs. They are all tackles that are over valued. We'll probably be looking at either a wide reciever or maybe Patterson. All of the D lineman seem to fit the 4-3 scheme. The lineman that best fits our scheme is Rodney Hudson, but he's a 2nd-3rd round grade.

Spot on, Skoalskin. There is no trading down from the top of the first round. No one wants to move up. I certainly follow your logic there are no interior OL worth a top 10 pick (there rarely are), and no NT either. There are several OLBs to complement Orakpo, but even Robert Quinn wouldn't be of much help while our DL keeps getting blown back. I think our best hope is Marcell Dareus falls to us. He's an impact 5-technique who has been playing in a 3-4. Similar to taking an OLB, taking a WR isn't going to be of much help while our OL sucks.

[rookieskin]

TO be honest i dont want Kemo on the team next year, hes not good he gets blown up every time hes on the field yeah hes really heavy but most of that weight is in his big head he has no strength.

I am inclined to agree except that we do not have anyone that can replace him. The real issue is that teams can focus on Kemo almost exclusivly.

I mean we are lining up Phil Daniels, and Adam Carriker Next to him? Now there is a tandem that strikes fear into quarterbacks hearts!!

I love Daniels, but he should be a #2 or #3 DE at this stage.

Even if we draft a NT early, (Please don't until we have drafter C and G) Kemo can be depth. My personal opinion is that it takes "Fat Boys" longer to recover from injurys and we kinda pushed Kemo to be ready before he was 100%.

I'd like to see what he can do used effectively, with yound talent around him, and in a real rotation. (Oh and I would like a 9 passenger Hummer for Christmas while we are at it)

[Chachie]

This brings up the interesting, age-old conundrum... is it sacrilege to root for (or, at least, tolerate) losses against non-rivals in the waning weeks of a wasted and inconsequential season, for the sake of improved draft position?

I've felt in the past that it was. However, I'm straight-up rooting for 5-12 at this point. I don't care what anyone else here tells me about not being a "true fan." I'm rooting for our future, even though it's probably set in stone that as long as Daniel Snyder owns this team it will suck. I don't even get sad when I think about that anymore. It just is what it is. He may have buried us too deep to ever claw out.

[Redskins4ever]

The way the team is playing, it looks as if the Redskins will finish either 6-10 or 7-9. If this happens then they will definitely draft within the top ten. At least they have their first and second round picks for next April. If they finish 8-8 or 9-7 then they'll probably move up to the top 20 where they can still draft a quality player.

[FLRedskins]

I have a feeling that we will be inching closer to the top of the draft order

[jivelikenice]

good. #10 is right aboutw here we want to be. out of the big money range, but still near the top.

if there's a stud lineman on O or D line we should grab him. if there's not, then we're in a perfect spot to trade our pick for more picks later, which is what we need (i think).

I don't necessarily agree with o-line in the top 10. We have our starting LT of the future here and you just don't draft a RT that early unless he may slide to LT in teh near future. You can get a probowl caliber RT or interior lineman later in Ronud 1 or further down the draft.

That being said, I also thought Jamaal Brown played decently yesterday. The pressure came from the interior and heyer's side. Tuck had one sack on McNabb on a play where McNabb had time and needed to throw it away. Brown was coming off an injury that limited his offseason so I think with a full offseason under his belt he can be a solid at RT. More importantly is the interior. I would 100% use the last 4 weeks to see if the line we played with in Nashville can work over the long haul. Let's take a looy at Heyer inside and Montgomery at Center.

Draft wise....Either go QB, NT, or Linebacker in Round 1.

[rookieskin]

Draft wise....Either go QB, NT, or Linebacker in Round 1.

You just don't get it.

Why don't we just get a "Can't Miss WR"?

I don't care if we have the #1 pick, We have to REBUILD the OL if we ever want to be a legit team.

We also have to rebuild the DL, although moving back to a 4-3 would mitigate the pain there.

I am hoping we bring in Elmer Fudd to the front-office, because over th years i bet he would have madde some better decisions than what we have seen play out.

[Mr. Sinister]

You just don't get it.

Why don't we just get a "Can't Miss WR"?

I don't care if we have the #1 pick, We have to REBUILD the OL if we ever want to be a legit team.

We also have to rebuild the DL, although moving back to a 4-3 would mitigate the pain there.

I am hoping we bring in Elmer Fudd to the front-office, because over th years i bet he would have madde some better decisions than what we have seen play out.

Your logic is flawed. Round 1, especially the top 10, is a value area. Unless you are desperate for a specific area, that doesn't involve you reaching for a certain player, you get the best bang for your buck, thats how the draft works. All of the other rounds are for need, thats why there is more than one round, and don't forget free agency also.

[GibbsFactor]

AJ Green or the best NT on the board!!!

Of course trading back and getting a Center, Right Guard, Right Tackle and a stud NT is ideal.

Can we get 3 to 4 picks in the first two rounds? Would be nice.

[rookieskin]

You're logic is flawed. Round 1, especially the top 10, is a value area. Unless you are desperate for a specific area, that doesn't involve you reaching for a certain player, you get the best bang for your buck, thats how the draf works. All of the other rounds are for need, thats why there is more than one round, and don't forget free agency also.

Any other team, I agree, however as you just pointed out..... "Unless you are desperate for a specific area"

If you ain't desperate for OL help, then we ain't watching the same team.

I don't even care if we "Reach" as long as we address OL issues, than let the yapping heads yap away.

While Orakpo was a great "No-brainer" pick-up, it has been disheartening to see him become less than what he could be playing in this scheme, and the arguement could be made, that had we picked an OL, this team would be further along right now in the re-building process. At the very least we woul dhave saved some $ on all the detergent that we have to use to get DMC's jersey clean every week.

[SMU Redskin]

I don't care if we have the #1 pick, We have to REBUILD the OL if we ever want to be a legit team.

Agreed.

Are Capers or Erik Cook worth a crap or just practice squad fodder? Would love to see us get Wisniewski, the center out of Penn State. Rabach HAS to go and I don't think Montgomery is a long term solution either

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

Any other team, I agree, however as you just pointed out..... "Unless you are desperate for a specific area"

If you ain't desperate for OL help, then we ain't watching the same team.

I don't even care if we "Reach" as long as we address OL issues, than let the yapping heads yap away.

So you'd rather take an average lineman over an AJ Green?

[GibbsFactor]

Any other team, I agree, however as you just pointed out..... "Unless you are desperate for a specific area"

If you ain't desperate for OL help, then we ain't watching the same team.

I don't even care if we "Reach" as long as we address OL issues, than let the yapping heads yap away.

While Orakpo was a great "No-brainer" pick-up, it has been disheartening to see him become less than what he could be playing in this scheme, and the arguement could be made, that had we picked an OL, this team would be further along right now in the re-building process. At the very least we woul dhave saved some $ on all the detergent that we have to use to get DMC's jersey clean every week.

But we have the OL position that warrants a top 15 pick filled. We need a Nose Tackle and Center first and foremost. The only position that is NEED and would be value in the top 15 is NT or WR. Forget RB, CB and FS. We need a NT or AJ Green with our first pick.

[SkinsCrushCowboys]

We NEED a center, it all starts there. Build around him and Williams. It will be amazing how much better the run game, pass game can be with a solid center not falling backwards into the QB and getting overpowered every single play.

[Stophovr6]

if we really focus, we can get to #5 or 6 by the end of the year....

I disagree. Please note that we have been focusing on winning since the beggining of the season and it has gone terribly bad. If we focus on losing we will probably end up winning a few games since we can't do anything right. Stay the course!

[Mr. Sinister]

If you ain't desperate for OL help, then we ain't watching the same team.

Yeah I still don't get what you're trying to say here. There are many areas on this team that need attention. The main problem with our o-line is in the interior, you DO NOT draft interior lineman in the top 10, unless you're a moron. There are more issues on this team than just the o-line, reaching for a player that you shouldn't, when you have many other outlets, is plain stupid. And in my post, I said that if you were desperate for a " tackle" in the top 10, and he's available to you, and worthy of the selection, then you should take him.

[SkinsCrushCowboys]

I disagree. Please note that we have been focusing on winning since the beggining of the season and it has gone terribly bad. If we focus on losing we will probably end up winning a few games since we can't do anything right. Stay the course!

damn, excellent point...I see your Jedi mind trick.......well played

[GibbsFactor]

We NEED a center, it all starts there. Build around him and Williams. It will be amazing how much better the run game, pass game can be with a solid center not falling backwards into the QB and getting overpowered every single play.

You going to take a center with a top 15 pick?

We basically need a player for every position. Sure NT and Center are, in this fans opinion, our greatest needs but only one of those positions is high first round value and that's the NT. Unless Prince or AJ Green is on the board, I say you go with the best NT/DT on the board. Address center in the second!

[Mr. Sinister]

Yeah I still don't get what you're trying to say here. There are many areas on this team that need attention. The main problem with our o-line is in the interior, you DO NOT draft interior lineman in the top 10, unless you're a moron. There are more issues on this team than just the o-line, reaching for a player that you shouldn't, when you have many other outlets, is plain stupid. And in my post, I said that if you were desperate for a " tackle" in the top 10, and he's available to you, and worthy of the selection, then you should take him.

Quoted just to make sure that you see it rookieskin

[Dukes and Skins]

Any other team, I agree, however as you just pointed out..... "Unless you are desperate for a specific area"

If you ain't desperate for OL help, then we ain't watching the same team.

I don't even care if we "Reach" as long as we address OL issues, than let the yapping heads yap away.

While Orakpo was a great "No-brainer" pick-up, it has been disheartening to see him become less than what he could be playing in this scheme, and the arguement could be made, that had we picked an OL, this team would be further along right now in the re-building process. At the very least we woul dhave saved some $ on all the detergent that we have to use to get DMC's jersey clean every week.

Here let me give you a little info on the OL prospects in this class.

None of the OT's are going to be worth a top 10 pick, none of the Guards or Centers are even near 1st round pick save for maybe Mike Pouncey who could go 30 or 31.

The simple fact here still remains, we are a team with little talent who needs to fill needs everywhere. They are going to take the BPA at where ever they are in the top 10 whether it be DL or OLB or WR.

This class is very strong in a few spots but specifically the OL is very weak in terms of high end top notch players. Look at teams who have reached sorely for players. The Arizona Cardinals drafted Levi Brown at OT when they could have traded down and gotten him, they passed up some pretty good prospects for them and look at where the team is now. Not saying that one player could have made the total difference but they reached a lot for someone who was a fringe top 10 guy, more like a top 16 or 18 guy.

We need to hit on this pick and our best bet at doing so is through the OLB, WR, or DL positions.

Also look at it this way, you really think that Shanny or Allen are going to let the OL continued to be flawed? No they are going to attack it and make sure things are better in a heartbeat. They are going to address OG in the FA class with Davin Joseph who is an Allen guy who is a very good young guard for them. They then are going to add another piece to the puzzle through FA and then use what is left and attack it in the draft

Look at an offseason like this

FA:

Davin Joseph

Jonathan Joseph

Trades:

Haynesworth for a 3rd

Cooley for a 2nd and 6th

Draft:

1st: Pick 9- Marcell Dareus DL Alabama

2nd- Rodney Hudson OG FSU

2nd(Cooley Trade)- Jeremy Beal OLB Oklahoma

3rd(Haynesworth trade)- Phil Taylor NT Baylor

5th- Clint Boling OG Georgia

5th(Brown trade) Matt Szczur WR/RB/Return man Villanova

6th- Chris Nield NT WVU

7th- BPA

7th- BPA

With that draft you address a lot of needs you add depth to the OL with Boling and a starter with Hudson along with Joseph. I suspect Shanny is going to let Montgomery and Lichtensteiger battle it out for the C position next year. Taylor and Nield would be a great tandem at NT for us and we could keep Kemo to mentor them and teach them everything about the pro game NT position. Szczur is a westbrook type player who would be a great slot man for us

Yes we still have needs at WR but I think with some of the big guns looking to return to school possibly with Green and Julio Jones. 2012 could be the year to get one. Could also see us add a #2 WR this year and let Malcolm come back and prove if he's worth it at WR

[SkinsCrushCowboys]

You going to take a center with a top 15 pick?

We basically need a player for every position. Sure NT and Center are, in this fans opinion, our greatest needs but only one of those positions is high first round value and that's the NT. Unless Prince or AJ Green is on the board, I say you go with the best NT/DT on the board. Address center in the second!

I think you are correct, I guess my frenzy for a quality center is clouding my judgment....