SG: Is There A Civil War Going On Right Now In Redskins Nation?

[PF Chang]

Out of the elite teams, the Colts are actually the one team that I think is going to be weak as Peyton declines. I don't think it's due to poor philosophy, though -- just don't think they have drafted many great players in the last 3-4 years. The sad thing about all this is that the NFL is designed to be cyclical -- Indy is constantly picking in the 28-32 range. Most of the elite teams are picking in the bottom of the range and yet they're still the most successful even over a long period of time.

[Commander Adama]

Ya know, out of your two groups, it's the idjits in group one I'd love to see just go find something else to do with their time instead of spend it here. While human nature is to be negative, it seems that those falling into that group are beyond negative. They've gone full retard in not understanding a damn thing that's going on with this team while rebuilding yet still being competitive. It's those fans that have started to make ES unbearable to even visit, 3-4 days after a loss. And it's a damn shame when I see guys that are actually pretty damn intelligent, just start spouting off nonsense as if a virus of stupidity has taken over their minds.

Seriously. I do not even come on here after a loss because I cannot stand to see all rational football discussions tossed out the window. And since 2004 I have always been on this board, every day, but unfortunately, as of the past year or two, I cannot stand it for a few days. Sad really.

[Skinzfever2010]

Sorry we younger fans didn't get to enjoy Gibbs 1 and the glory days like you guys did. Try bring born into the Norv (Heath Shuler) years.

Going to school when the Cowboys were winning ships and being made fun of like crazy for being a redskin fan.

Its a war between the old fan who has seen the mountain top and the young fan who hasn't seen ****

You guys are/were lucky

For all I know (new generation of pisssed/fed up with this **** fans) we are the new Browns, Bengals, Bills. I'm not going to sit here and act like I enjoy what I watch Sunday.

[TheLongshot]

Seriously. I do not even come on here after a loss because I cannot stand to see all rational football discussions tossed out the window. And since 2004 I have always been on this board, every day, but unfortunately, as of the past year or two, I cannot stand it for a few days. Sad really.

After 2006, I instituted a policy of not being on a board after a loss until 24 hours had passed. It just ended up not being good for my health to be on here with all of that negativity. I reacted very badly to it.

[hail2skins]

People seem to get caught up in the aftermath of every game. When we lose the team sucks and is going nowhere, when the team wins we are Super Bowl bound. In the aftermath of the Titans game, one poster who has consistently preached modest expectations for this season was referring to it as "the most important victory for the team in recent years" and "possibly the most important victory in 20 years, depending on how the season unfolds."

I've been back in the area for over 20 years and people from other areas of the country make fun of the fans around here for this trait. However, I would imagine that a lot of fanbases are this way too.......who knows?

[bulldog]

More than anything, what separates Shanahan from Belichick or Reid or one of the other coaches of the teams being discussed is his inflexibility.

These other coaches have been quicker to assess and evaluate talent, jettison guys that can't play or no longer can play effectively, and promote younger players even if there is a learning curve.

We have seen Belichick do that on defense the past 2 years in New England. Reid did that on offense in Philly at RB and WR.

Break from the past, take the hit, and let the younger guys learn and grow.

But here Shanahan decided to stick with guys like Larry Johnson and Joey Galloway for the entire offseason and parts of the season and let the younger players sit on the bench or the practice squad.

On a rebuilding 4-12 team only a fool continues to promote the interests of 30 plus year old players.

As the Patriots correctly assessed with Richard Seymour and the Eagles did with Sheldon Brown, they were more past than future and needed to be dealt.e

Obviously, these players are more talented than the Redskins I am discussing here.

But the general point is there - on a 4-12 team one would think the club would be LOOKING for reasons to tell 33 and 34 year old players they have to sit instead of continuing to start them or play them regularly when they are not producing.

[TheLongshot]

More than anything, what separates Shanahan from Belichick or Reid or one of the other coaches of the teams being discussed is his inflexibility.

These other coaches have been quicker to assess and evaluate talent, jettison guys that can't play or no longer can play effectively, and promote younger players even if there is a learning curve.

We have seen Belichick do that on defense the past 2 years in New England. Reid did that on offense in Philly at RB and WR.

Break from the past, take the hit, and let the younger guys learn and grow.

But here Shanahan decided to stick with guys like Larry Johnson and Joey Galloway for the entire offseason and parts of the season and let the younger players sit on the bench or the practice squad.

On a rebuilding 4-12 team only a fool continues to promote the interests of 30 plus year old players.

As the Patriots correctly assessed with Richard Seymour and the Eagles did with Sheldon Brown, they were more past than future and needed to be dealt.e

Obviously, these players are more talented than the Redskins I am discussing here.

But the general point is there - on a 4-12 team one would think the club would be LOOKING for reasons to tell 33 and 34 year old players they have to sit instead of continuing to start them or play them regularly when they are not producing.

That being said, if you don't have a player behind the 33 year old that you trust can do the job, it makes it hard to part with him. Fact is, usually teams like New England and Philly have a guy either behind the guy they got rid of or they get a guy to replace him (like getting Branch to replace Moss.)

Coaches are hired to win games. If the 33 year old is the one who is going to help you win games, the coach is going to go with him until he feels someone else can do a better job.

[pjfootballer]

Out of the elite teams, the Colts are actually the one team that I think is going to be weak as Peyton declines. I don't think it's due to poor philosophy, though -- just don't think they have drafted many great players in the last 3-4 years. The sad thing about all this is that the NFL is designed to be cyclical -- Indy is constantly picking in the 28-32 range. Most of the elite teams are picking in the bottom of the range and yet they're still the most successful even over a long period of time.

I think the Colts have done a good job in the 28-32 range with picking skill position players. I think their downfall will be not picking offensive linemen with that pick. Every year the Steelers take an O-Lineman in the 1st or 2nd round. Of course having Peyton Manning disguises alot of those insufficiencies.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I find it amazing how rational other fans' message boards are after a loss. It's only Redskins fans that over-react.

[SWFLSkins]

Sorry we younger fans didn't get to enjoy Gibbs 1 and the glory days like you guys did. Try bring born into the Norv (Heath Shuler) years.

Going to school when the Cowboys were winning ships and being made fun of like crazy for being a redskin fan.

Its a war between the old fan who has seen the mountain top and the young fan who hasn't seen ****

You guys are/were lucky

For all I know (new generation of pisssed/fed up with this **** fans) we are the new Browns, Bengals, Bills. I'm not going to sit here and act like I enjoy what I watch Sunday.

I don't know about that, I see just as many ballistic 40 year olds as 20 somethings after a loss, and don't get into the 60 year+ crowd, whoa. LOL, But as usual I could be wrong.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I think the Colts have done a good job in the 28-32 range with picking skill position players. I think their downfall will be not picking offensive linemen with that pick. Every year the Steelers take an O-Lineman in the 1st or 2nd round. Of course having Peyton Manning disguises alot of those insufficiencies.

And by every year, you mean "almost never."

Steelers drafts

2009 1st - Ziggy Hood (DT)

2nd - No pick

2008 1st Rashard Mendenhall (RB)

2nd Limas Sweed (WR)

2007 1st Lawrence Timmons (LB)

2nd Lamar Woodley (LB)

2006 1st Santonio Holmes (WR)

2nd Anothony Smith (S)

2005 1st Heath Miller (TE)

2nd Bryant McFadden (DB)

2004 1st Ben Roethlisberger (QB)

2nd Ricardo Coclaigh (DB)

2003 1st Troy Polamalu (S)

2nd Alonzo Jackson (LB)

The only years the Steelers have used a first or second rounder on their OL is 2010 (Pouncey) and 2002 (Simmons). In other news, their OL is not very good.

What is amazing is how few first round busts they have. And how many second round busts. And how many good third rounders. They are a weird team in the draft.

[PF Chang]

Indy does need to draft line. The way that RG got blown up and basically sacked Manning himself against SD was shades of Casey Rabach. I actually dont think Indy's skill drafts have been great lately either. Having Manning tends to make guys like Anthony Gonzalez look great. Donald Brown was unnecessary. (And it is irrelevant that their RBs have been hurt, you don't use your 1st round pick on a RB when you drafted a good 1st round RB a few years prior). That pick should have been somewhere else.

Thanks to their philosophy, the Steelers will be able to address their o-line weakness because they really arent weak anywhere else. Much like New England, they'll be able to focus on their limited areas of weakness and remain truly competitive in the meantime.

[pjfootballer]

And by every year' date=' you mean "almost never."

Steelers drafts

2009 1st - Ziggy Hood (DT)

2nd - No pick

2008 1st Rashard Mendenhall (RB)

2nd Limas Sweed (WR)

2007 1st Lawrence Timmons (LB)

2nd Lamar Woodley (LB)

2006 1st Santonio Holmes (WR)

2nd Anothony Smith (S)

2005 1st Heath Miller (TE)

2nd Bryant McFadden (DB)

2004 1st Ben Roethlisberger (QB)

2nd Ricardo Coclaigh (DB)

2003 1st Troy Polamalu (S)

2nd Alonzo Jackson (LB)

The only years the Steelers have used a first or second rounder on their OL is 2010 (Pouncey) and 2002 (Simmons). In other news, their OL is not very good.

What is amazing is how few first round busts they have. And how many second round busts. And how many good third rounders. They are a weird team in the draft.[/quote']

I guess it just seems that way that they take O-line high. Maybe in the mid to later rounds. But over the years they have always had a good line. They run block well, but in the last couple of years they haven't pass blocked as well.

[Manny555]

I think the one think alot of those teams have is a very solid/great Qb. We haven't had a great qb for a very long. When you have a mediocre Qb, there's not room for mistakes. Peyton has covered up Wr bein average because he's so great.

I hope we can build a pipeline of young talent to keep this team solid for the time. I didn't follow Shanny in Denver but let's hope he has become better from what he was before.

Oh and on a side note......

It drives me crazy when our games are SOOOOOO important when we're below .500.

[konga2145]

This is basically it:

4 teams:

New England Patriots

Baltimore Ravens

Pittsburgh Steelers

Indianapolis Colts

These are the teams that are in it every year and will continue to be. Why? Because they:

a) Have stable front office and/or coaching staff

Have built a solid identity over the last decade or so

c) Acquired players, through good drafts and key FA pickups that fit that identity

d) Rinse and repeat

Every other team in the NFL wants to be those 4, both organizationally and on the field. I would LOVE for the Redskins would like to get there someday.

The Colts, remain to be seen

[clskinsfan]

Ya know, out of your two groups, it's the idjits in group one I'd love to see just go find something else to do with their time instead of spend it here. While human nature is to be negative, it seems that those falling into that group are beyond negative. They've gone full retard in not understanding a damn thing that's going on with this team while rebuilding yet still being competitive. It's those fans that have started to make ES unbearable to even visit, 3-4 days after a loss. And it's a damn shame when I see guys that are actually pretty damn intelligent, just start spouting off nonsense as if a virus of stupidity has taken over their minds.

TK. i almost always agree with your post. But I have to disagree with you on this one. This team is not rebuilding it is simply old. I know we havent had alot of draft picks recently and wont next year, but winning the free agent sweepstakes every year is not working. Maybe we go 8-8 this year. Sure its a 4 game improvement over last year. But next year your old players are a year older. I would have rather won 4 games again with young players gaining experience than getting older every year with the same suck sack results.

[wildbill1952]

The only years the Steelers have used a first or second rounder on their OL is 2010 (Pouncey) and 2002 (Simmons). In other news' date=' their OL is not very good..[/quote']I note that the Skins and the Steelers both spent tthe same number of first round picks on OL since 2000. - two. One should note that, since 2000, the Steelers have drafted 17 OL compared to 10 for the Skins in that same timeframe including a Steeler second rounder in 2000. Of the 17 the Steelers drafted, 9 were in the 4th round or earlier.. For the Skins, 6 of the 10 OL they drafted were picked up in the 6th round or later. So, although the Skins and Steelers may have the same number of 1st round picks, the Steelers drafted 7 OL between the second and 4th rounds in the last 10 years. The Skins have drafted 2.

So it appears in both quantity and quality, the Steelers pick more OL than the Skins do.