WP: Four in 10 say marriage is becoming obsolete

[Ned Flanders]

When you look at the opposite sex as property, that's a problem right there.

While I agree with your statement, I was completely joking.....

[Kilmer17]

Do they provide a baseline? IE, what did this similar poll say 5, 10, 20, 50 years ago?

My bet is the numbers would have been the same.

When I was 22 years old, I knew ABSOLUTELY that I didnt want to get married and that it was an outdated concept.

Funny how little people know when they're 22.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

I never really carried about marriage... Then I met my girlfriend....

I love her very much and want to spend the rest of my life with her.

However, I'm not thinking about marrying out of love. I'm thinking about marrying for the benefits.

My girlfriend is a blue collar worker who has absolutely no benefits and is not a permanent resident.

My white collar job allows me to spread my benefits (health/dental/vision insurance) and so on to my spouse, not to mention getting her a greencard, and the tax breaks.

That's pretty much the only reason I'm considering marriage to be honest.... If I could live happily ever after without an expensive wedding ceremony, I'd do it... But too many pros (when you include a prenuptial)

No offense, but benefits sounds like a horrible reason to seriously consider marriage.

[Ned Flanders]

No offense, but benefits sounds like a horrible reason to seriously consider marriage.

That's what's kept Hillary and Bill married for so long.........works for them!

[endzone_dave]

Marriage isn't what it used to be 40 years ago. Now, my wife and I both work 50+ hours per week. My 8 year old son has a crap load of homework/studying he needs to do. Our mortgage payment is huge (unlike our house). Life feels like a grind. I can't think of the last time my wife and I got away and did anything fun together.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Marriage isn't what it used to be 40 years ago. Now, my wife and I both work 50+ hours per week. My 8 year old son has a crap load of homework/studying he needs to do. Our mortgage payment is huge (unlike our house). Life feels like a grind. I can't think of the last time my wife and I got away and did anything fun together.

What do you think life was like 40 years ago? I'm sure the husband was working 50 hours per week, the wife was cooking, cleaning, doing laundry, and taking care of the kids all the time. Also, back then, I'll be fun get-aways were just as common as they are now. Life IS a grind when you're raising a family and working.

[Ellis]

That's what's kept Hillary and Bill married for so long.........works for them!

that or the whole "til death do you part" thing that many married people take seriously.

[rictus58]

While I agree with your statement, I was completely joking.....

sorry. Sarcasm meter broken today.

However, I do feel some out there believe that. Marriage is more than sex.

Marriage isn't what it used to be 40 years ago. Now, my wife and I both work 50+ hours per week. My 8 year old son has a crap load of homework/studying he needs to do. Our mortgage payment is huge (unlike our house). Life feels like a grind. I can't think of the last time my wife and I got away and did anything fun together.

None of that is the fault of the institution of marriage.

[Hubbs]

When you look at the opposite sex as property, that's a problem right there.

I believe it's called a metaphor.

[rictus58]

I believe it's called a metaphor.

And metaphors are used to show how things are alike.

[Chachie]

I commend those of you who are staunchly defending the institution of marriage in this thread. If I ever get married I'll surely do the same. Statistics seem to dictate, however, that half of you will divorce from your current spouse in the next 5-8 years.

[rictus58]

I commend those of you who are staunchly defending the institution of marriage in this thread. If I ever get married I'll surely do the same. Statistics seem to dictate, however, that half of you will divorce from your current spouse in the next 5-8 years.

in the next 5-8 years? what's that figure based off of?

[Hubbs]

And metaphors are used to show how things are alike.

Yes, so if I say that I'm smooth as butter, that means I'm made up of some sort of dairy product.

You know damn well that what he said has nothing to do with thinking of women as property. I doubt anyone here honestly believes you think that. You're being an ass for the sake of being an ass.

[endzone_dave]

What do you think life was like 40 years ago? I'm sure the husband was working 50 hours per week, the wife was cooking, cleaning, doing laundry, and taking care of the kids all the time. Also, back then, I'll be fun get-aways were just as common as they are now. Life IS a grind when you're raising a family and working.

A mom working 50 hours per week has it a lot tougher than a stay-at-home mom. It's not even close.

[rictus58]

Yes, so if I say that I'm smooth as butter, that means I'm made up of some sort of dairy product.

You know damn well that what he said has nothing to do with thinking of women as property. I doubt anyone here honestly believes you think that. You're being an ass for the sake of being an ass.

Do you understand what a metaphor is?

You statement above would be a Similie.

And FWIW, I'd rather be an ass just for the sake of it, than be an ass because I was born that way.

If you had bothered to read further, Ned and I had worked this out before your desire to add your $.02.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

A mom working 50 hours per week has it a lot tougher than a stay-at-home mom. It's not even close.

A 2010 mom working 50 hours per week has it a lot tougher than a 2010 stay-at-home mom. I'd agree with that.

A stay-at-home mom 40 years ago probably had most or all of the child-raising responsibilities, all of the cooking/cleaning responsibilities, and all of the shopping responsibilities. I've stayed home with both my kids for a full day while my wife was at work. If I had to do that every day while also shopping for groceries, having the house clean and laundry done, getting dinner on the table, cleaning up after dinner, and then getting the kids cleaned up and ready for bed...I'd probably prefer to work 8-9 hours per day in an office somewhere.

I would say that the two-working-parent household has probably evened the playing field for families and given both husbands and wives a taste of what the other traditional role has had to deal with. I find in my house that we share many of the other duties since neither one of us is able to do those things during the day. So, in evenings and over weekends we tend to split the cleaning/cooking/childcare in order to get it done. It's a much more equitable/balanced life than what a housewife in 1970 probably dealt.

So, back to my original point...I think that a stay-at-home mom back in 1970 had it worse than a working mom today who can fulfill career goals, get help around the house from her spouse, and still be a mom in the evenings/weekends. More balance = more enjoyable life.

[Chachie]

in the next 5-8 years? what's that figure based off of?

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080423133959AAwCcCu

Some of the answers in that link provide links to more statistics but essentially the average marriage in the USA lasts just over 7 years. If you Google "average duration of marriages in the US 2009" or something close to that you'll get a ton of info. btw- Please don't take offense to what I said. I'm not a marriage hater at all. I wish I were blessed with the companionship of a wife and and the beautiful responsibility of children.

[rictus58]

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080423133959AAwCcCu

Some of the answers in that link provide links to more statistics but essentially the average marriage in the USA lasts just over 7 years. If you Google "average duration of marriages in the US 2009" or something close to that you'll get a ton of info. btw- Please don't take offense to what I said. I'm not a marriage hater at all. I wish I were blessed with the companionship of a wife and and the beautiful responsibility of children.

Im not taking offense at all. Just wondering what that was based off of. I wonder what the stats are for marriages after they've made it past 5, 8, or 10 years.

edit: I guess if i take time to read links I'll find out

[endzone_dave]

A 2010 mom working 50 hours per week has it a lot tougher than a 2010 stay-at-home mom. I'd agree with that.

A stay-at-home mom 40 years ago probably had most or all of the child-raising responsibilities, all of the cooking/cleaning responsibilities, and all of the shopping responsibilities. I've stayed home with both my kids for a full day while my wife was at work. If I had to do that every day while also shopping for groceries, having the house clean and laundry done, getting dinner on the table, cleaning up after dinner, and then getting the kids cleaned up and ready for bed...I'd probably prefer to work 8-9 hours per day in an office somewhere.

I would say that the two-working-parent household has probably evened the playing field for families and given both husbands and wives a taste of what the other traditional role has had to deal with. I find in my house that we share many of the other duties since neither one of us is able to do those things during the day. So, in evenings and over weekends we tend to split the cleaning/cooking/childcare in order to get it done. It's a much more equitable/balanced life than what a housewife in 1970 probably dealt.

So, back to my original point...I think that a stay-at-home mom back in 1970 had it worse than a working mom today who can fulfill career goals, get help around the house from her spouse, and still be a mom in the evenings/weekends. More balance = more enjoyable life.

I would agree with you for Moms taking care of pre-school aged kids. Once the kids are in school all day, a stay at home mom in 1970 would have it easier.

[Bang]

2nd marriage here.

Definitely better.

~Bang

[rictus58]

I would agree with you for Moms taking care of pre-school aged kids. Once the kids are in school all day, a stay at home mom in 1970 would have it easier.

I don't know.

Things took a lot longer to accomplish 40 years ago. From cooking to cleaning to helping kids with homework.

[Ellis]

A 2010 mom working 50 hours per week has it a lot tougher than a 2010 stay-at-home mom. I'd agree with that.

A stay-at-home mom 40 years ago probably had most or all of the child-raising responsibilities, all of the cooking/cleaning responsibilities, and all of the shopping responsibilities. I've stayed home with both my kids for a full day while my wife was at work. If I had to do that every day while also shopping for groceries, having the house clean and laundry done, getting dinner on the table, cleaning up after dinner, and then getting the kids cleaned up and ready for bed...I'd probably prefer to work 8-9 hours per day in an office somewhere.

I would say that the two-working-parent household has probably evened the playing field for families and given both husbands and wives a taste of what the other traditional role has had to deal with. I find in my house that we share many of the other duties since neither one of us is able to do those things during the day. So, in evenings and over weekends we tend to split the cleaning/cooking/childcare in order to get it done. It's a much more equitable/balanced life than what a housewife in 1970 probably dealt.

So, back to my original point...I think that a stay-at-home mom back in 1970 had it worse than a working mom today who can fulfill career goals, get help around the house from her spouse, and still be a mom in the evenings/weekends. More balance = more enjoyable life.

Those are all excellent points.

I'm sure everyone has heard of the Men From Mars/Women From Venus books.

My fiance and I had read the original. Well, we heard there were other versions of that book for married couples and even books for the work place. After getting engaged we decided to get the one for married couples just for fun, despite the fact that we knew we'd learn a lot from it.

According to the book, the career woman has it much harder than the stay-at-home mom b/c of the "nurturing" nature of the female. No matter how tired the female is when she gets home from her 8-10 hr day (factor in commuting), she will walk in the door of her home and BHAM! ...immediately, she'll go in to nurture mode and start cleaning, cooking, loving the kids, etc. The American female absolutely cannot help this natural thing that women do. It is who a woman is. It is what woman have done for centuries. So basically, a career woman really has 2 jobs.

A career man has it easier. He is meeting all of his primal instincts of providing for the family. Work is just that. Men then desire praise upon getting home b/c they have a need to be seen as a needed asset. A knight. A hunter. He is out in nature, slaying the dollar and bringing home the bread. He is the one whom all rely on, at least in his own mind instinctually. When the man doesn't get praise at home for meeting all these expectations, he feels neglected. Sadly, in 21st century marriages, especially those where the woman also has a career, the man usually comes in last. The woman is so preoccupied (justifiably) with the house and the children, that when she finally has time for the man, she is so wiped out that she just wants to rest. Thus, neglect severely hurts the male and sometimes this will lead the male away in search of praise. Woman can also be lead astray when their hard work is not rewarded with praise.

The book suggests, and backs up with data, that THIS is why so many marriages fail. Men and women, in America at least, have abandoned the old way of doing things. Namely, the man works and provides and the woman nurtures and loves. It is perfectly acceptable for a woman to desire to have a career. Men and women in todays society have a much larger "relationship" now. Men and women have become hybrid versions of each other. The dynamics of marriage ahve changed very quickly in a short period of time. We slightly repress what comes natural to us as men or women and are expected to be good at what doesn't come natural to us as men or women. A man must fulfill both the man and woman role and vice versa, the woman must fulfill the man and woman role. Each, in a way, is not too good at it but the only way the 21st century marriage will work is with a large amount of constant communication between the two people and a LOT of compromise so that each feels they are living a purposeful life while not neglecting the needs of the other.

Marriage today is not obsolete. It has evolved into an institution that is very foreign to the natural instincts of men and women. We just have to adapt and learn. And we will over many generations.

[jbooma]

Marriage isn't for everyone.

It's not a miserable experience for a lot of people.

I spent my 20's getting all the wild times out of my system. Loved every second of it. I always knew I'd get married one day b/c frankly, I like the idea of spending the rest of your life with one person. I'm glad I did not do it at a young age. I am lucky to have crossed paths with a girl I have known since about age 6 or 7. We are getting married next summer and we know it's going to be up and down. We want to have children that have both parents so that she can stay home with them for at least 2 or 3 years while I work for all of us. We just feel that a child deserves to have that kind of attention at a young age and it should be the PARENTS who give the child that attention. These are our personal values. We know there are many ways to go about parenting.

That is a great goal to shoot for. Living in this area though it is hard for one income to support the family. What worked out great for us is we had my wifes mom live with us till our son was 1. Then he started at a daycare very close to home, and part of the neighborhood. He is learning so much there and so fast I am not sure we would be able to provide that environment here at home. The other key is he gets to play with other kids all day long, and this is an important age for kids to learn how to play with others. Plus all the toys we don't want to have in the house

It may not be for everyone, but if you find a good place daycare is not that bad of a thing.

[jbooma]

For all the men here who THINK that a stay-at-home mom has it made compared to a working mom, have you actually ever done it??? Hate to break it to you but I would say the mom at home has just as hard as job. I know this because I was layed off and become a stay at home dad for a little but and to be honest I would rather be working 50 hours a week then doing that. Remember when you work for a living you have a place to hide from everything. When you are at home all the time, there is no place to get away. Before you say something is easier actually try it for once, you might be surprised

The other point even if you and wife work 50 hours a week you still need to find away to go out and enjoy yourself. If you can't make time for yourself and wife then you may want to think why are you even working this hours to begin with?? Life is short so take advantage of it.

[Fergasun]

One more thing to add...

"Love is a choice."