Something to consider when thinking about trading away draft picks . . . look at the Patriots

[Skadden]

It's an old adage that teaches us that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. Well, I'm not sure if we care (or do the Patriots for that matter) how we look if we imitate the Patriots and how they seem to keep reloading year after year, but here's one eye-popping :yikes: thing to ponder and consider: with the Moss trade, the Patriots now have two first round picks, two second round picks, two third round picks, and two fourth rounders in the coming draft. They already are a Superbowl caliber team, and now have multiple picks to supply them with young, cheap talent to reload as they continue to age gracefully.

In the 2011 draft, we still have most of our picks, and we should hold on to all of them unless someone like a V-Jax can be had for a third rounder. The problem with trading away for vets like V-Jax is that ,while you get a polished pro right now, the vet you get has a shelf-life that will be due to expire sooner rather than later and will cost your team much more in terms of money than a third rounder that you can develop, have around here for a while, and pay a relative pittance to.

That's what the Patriots do, and it's time to start flattering Bill Belichick & Co.

[WhoRUSupposed2Be]

It's time to stop admiring other teams and see if we can even get through this damn season first.

[HRNY4ZRNY]

Yeah I agree we should focus on this season... And I almost forgot to start a thread "Should we try to get Sidney Rice next year when he recovers"

[Bantu]

People hate on Belicek, but he is the most brilliant mind in the NFL. He's just proving again what I've known for the past 7-8 years in that he is always one step ahead of everyone. Now even he admits its easy to look smart when you have arguably one of the best QBs in the game, but he still deserves the lion's share of credit for the Pat's success.

As for pointing out that stockpiling draft picks is best, I think most people on this forum know that already.

[The Tris]

Stockpiling picks is a good idea, especially when even "geniuses" like Belichick bat sub-.500 in the draft. The Pats need this draft as their team is majorly lack young talent.

I disagree that this trade was a good move though.

[Redskins Diehard]

You could have started this thread a couple of years ago when the Patriots traded away a draft pick for a big name receiver that lost a step....one named Randy Moss

[Bang]

Figure one of those first rounders is from Oakland.

Top five?

Probably.

~Bang

[MattFancy]

Here's a question, what good young players have the Pats drafted over the last few years?

In 2010, they had 12 draft picks, only 6 made the team.

In 2009, they had 12 picks, only 2 or 3 of them start.

In 2008, they had 7 picks, only 2 of them play.

In 2007, they had 8 picks, only 1 starts.

In 2006, they had 10 picks, I think only 1 is still on the team.

So yeah they've had alot of draft picks, but can you name the best young players on the Pats? Jerod Mayo and who else? Patrick Chung and Brandon Tate could break out and be starts, but they don't have many great young players. Just because you have draft picks, doesn't mean you'll get good players out of them.

[lou4gehrig]

You could have started this thread a couple of years ago when the Patriots traded away a draft pick for a big name receiver that lost a step....one named Randy Moss

So let's see, the Patriots trade away a 4th rounder to get Moss. He scores 50 touchdowns in 3+ seasons. Then they trade him to Minnesota for a 3rd round pick just as he's about to become a free agent.

I'd hardly consider that "trading away" a draft pick. Pure genius if you ask me.

[lou4gehrig]

Here's a question, what good young players have the Pats drafted over the last few years?

In 2010, they had 12 draft picks, only 6 made the team.

In 2009, they had 12 picks, only 2 or 3 of them start.

In 2008, they had 7 picks, only 2 of them play.

In 2007, they had 8 picks, only 1 starts.

In 2006, they had 10 picks, I think only 1 is still on the team.

So yeah they've had alot of draft picks, but can you name the best young players on the Pats? Jerod Mayo and who else? Patrick Chung and Brandon Tate could break out and be starts, but they don't have many great young players. Just because you have draft picks, doesn't mean you'll get good players out of them.

I think the best point about this is drafting is an inexact science. I love when people say we struck out with Devin and Malcom, when in reality hitting on 1 of 3 second rounders in Fred Davis is actually about average.

[Devastate]

Here's a question, what good young players have the Pats drafted over the last few years?

In 2010, they had 12 draft picks, only 6 made the team.

In 2009, they had 12 picks, only 2 or 3 of them start.

In 2008, they had 7 picks, only 2 of them play.

In 2007, they had 8 picks, only 1 starts.

In 2006, they had 10 picks, I think only 1 is still on the team.

So yeah they've had alot of draft picks, but can you name the best young players on the Pats? Jerod Mayo and who else? Patrick Chung and Brandon Tate could break out and be starts, but they don't have many great young players. Just because you have draft picks, doesn't mean you'll get good players out of them.

That's true, but you also have to think about the flexability having those draft picks gives you.. Everyone is think that giving Minny Moss puts us in the front running of the Vjac sweepstakes and we really can't afford it with the picks we have.. But the patriots can.. They could sweep in right now get Vjax and still have more picks than almost every other team in the league..They can afford to spend a 2nd to get the deal done and still have a 2nd round pick, yet we don't even have a 2nd to work with..Hell if they wanted they can give a 2nd and 3rd if they covet Vjax that much without even batting an eye.

[Botched]

As for pointing out that stockpiling draft picks is best, I think most people on this forum know that already.

If they did, the Vincent Jackson thread wouldn't be 217 pages long.

[elkabong82]

Having a lot of draft picks is good to get younger, but it doesn't guarantee success. The 49ers and Chiefs have had lots of picks recently, and high ones too, and it hasn't gotten them very far (yes KC is doing ok right now, but lots of season left to play).

I guess what I'm trying to say is what I always do, which is that there is no one singular method/strategy/whatever to build a succesful NFL team. The Saints have won with a ton of FAs, just as the Colts have won with a good amount of draft picks. Other teams have won with a healthy dose of draft and free agency.

Of course having one of the best QBs in the game certainly eases things for the Pats as well.

I'd say it's more important to have a competent scouting staff, etc. for determining the right players to pick than it is to simply stockpile picks.

[Oldfan]

Here's a question, what good young players have the Pats drafted over the last few years?

In 2010, they had 12 draft picks, only 6 made the team.

In 2009, they had 12 picks, only 2 or 3 of them start.

In 2008, they had 7 picks, only 2 of them play.

In 2007, they had 8 picks, only 1 starts.

In 2006, they had 10 picks, I think only 1 is still on the team.

So yeah they've had alot of draft picks, but can you name the best young players on the Pats? Jerod Mayo and who else? Patrick Chung and Brandon Tate could break out and be starts, but they don't have many great young players. Just because you have draft picks, doesn't mean you'll get good players out of them.

You are not seeing the whole picture. It's not a team with stars. It's a team where the players fit the schemes. Their hit record on draft picks isn't any better than several teams in the NFL. That's why they stockpile picks whenever they have the chance.

[Skadden]

Here's a question, what good young players have the Pats drafted over the last few years?

In 2010, they had 12 draft picks, only 6 made the team.

In 2009, they had 12 picks, only 2 or 3 of them start.

In 2008, they had 7 picks, only 2 of them play.

In 2007, they had 8 picks, only 1 starts.

In 2006, they had 10 picks, I think only 1 is still on the team.

So yeah they've had alot of draft picks, but can you name the best young players on the Pats? Jerod Mayo and who else? Patrick Chung and Brandon Tate could break out and be starts, but they don't have many great young players. Just because you have draft picks, doesn't mean you'll get good players out of them.

But that's the point isn't it, to stock pile draft picks knowing that some will bust? That way, if you hit on, say, half or a third, you still have a stable of young players that help you out. And don't forget that the Pats love to trade down on draft day and pick up more draft picks.

[Oldfan]

Of course having one of the best QBs in the game certainly eases things for the Pats as well.

The scheme makes it easy for a QB to be successful. That's why Orton looks better in Denver than he did in Chicago. That's why Cassell could replace Brady and go 11-5, yet flop the following season in Kansas City.

[MattFancy]

But that's the point isn't it, to stock pile draft picks knowing that some will bust? That way, if you hit on, say, half or a third, you still have a stable of young players that help you out. And don't forget that the Pats love to trade down on draft day and pick up more draft picks.

Right, but if you're not hitting on the draft picks, what's the point? I mean if you have 24 picks in the last 2 drafts and only a handful of good players, does it really matter? I know you're not going to hit on every player in the draft, but the Pats don't have tons of young talent. I can name better young players on the Lions or Rams than I can the Pats.

You are not seeing the whole picture. It's not a team with stars. It's a team where the players fit the schemes. Their hit record on draft picks isn't any better than several teams in the NFL. That's why they stockpile picks whenever they have the chance.

Yes they do go for players that fit their scheme, but like I said, if you have 24 picks over 2 years and only a few are helping you, what does that say? Do the Pats know they aren't good at drafting players so they have to stock pile picks? I don't know. But you would think a team that's had 49 draft picks over the last 5 years, would be loaded with young talent. I can't tell you many good young guys on the Pats besides Mayo, Chung, Tate, and Merriweather. Maybe a few more break out in the next year or so, but who knows.

[elkabong82]

The scheme makes it easy for a QB to be successful. That's why Orton looks better in Denver than he did in Chicago. That's why Cassell could replace Brady and go 11-5, yet flop the following season in Kansas City.

Good point. I change my statement to "having one of the best QBs AND offensive system in the game eases things"

[CrypticVillain]

It's time to stop admiring other teams and see if we can even get through this damn season first.

Yep. We know the Patriots are the best at getting picks. Lets see if we can at least start playing a full game of football before the season ends

[lou4gehrig]

Having a lot of draft picks is good to get younger, but it doesn't guarantee success. The 49ers and Chiefs have had lots of picks recently, and high ones too, and it hasn't gotten them very far (yes KC is doing ok right now, but lots of season left to play).

Well San Fran and KC both started as atrocious teams. Much worse than we were last season. And the 49ers suck this season, but were picked by many to win the West. The Chiefs have obviously turned it around and built a good team with alot of solid talent, especially defensively.

Both these teams have something we're short on. Young, rising talent. Aside from Orakpo, Landry and Trent, we don't have any young players. The Niners at least have Willis, Vernon Davis, Crabtree. And the Chiefs have Dorsey, Berry, Bowe.

I don't mind trading draft picks, as long as it for younger guys who will be here long term. To me the McNabb trade was a must in changing culture. He's done that. Even if he leaves in the off season. Jammal Brown trade was borderline. He was pretty cheap and can develop into a long-term right tackle here. No more T.J. Duckett or Jason Taylor trades though. I think we're heading in the right direction though and not trading for somebody like Marshawn Lynch proves that.

[Oldfan]

Right, but if you're not hitting on the draft picks, what's the point? I mean if you have 24 picks in the last 2 drafts and only a handful of good players, does it really matter? I know you're not going to hit on every player in the draft, but the Pats don't have tons of young talent. I can name better young players on the Lions or Rams than I can the Pats..

I think you're making a good argument if the OP had argued that the Patriots plan was successful because of outstanding execution. But, he's arguing that the plan should be imitated. You're saying the execution of the plan could be better.

[TheLongshot]

I think it is easier to do what the Patriots are doing when you have a team and a plan that has been in place for years. The Eagles do a similar thing. The problem is getting to that point in the first place. Turning over plans every couple of years gets a team playing catchup all the time, having to cycle out players who no longer fit in the plan and getting new ones.

[Oldfan]

I think it is easier to do what the Patriots are doing when you have a team and a plan that has been in place for years. The Eagles do a similar thing. The problem is getting to that point in the first place. Turning over plans every couple of years gets a team playing catchup all the time, having to cycle out players who no longer fit in the plan and getting new ones.

Which of the many plans we've seen in the Snyder era would you have stuck with?

[Conn]

That's true, but you also have to think about the flexability having those draft picks gives you.. Everyone is think that giving Minny Moss puts us in the front running of the Vjac sweepstakes and we really can't afford it with the picks we have.. But the patriots can.. They could sweep in right now get Vjax and still have more picks than almost every other team in the league..They can afford to spend a 2nd to get the deal done and still have a 2nd round pick, yet we don't even have a 2nd to work with..Hell if they wanted they can give a 2nd and 3rd if they covet Vjax that much without even batting an eye.

Except Smith definitely won't trade him to another AFC team, he already said that.

[FrFan]

But that's the point isn't it, to stock pile draft picks knowing that some will bust? That way, if you hit on, say, half or a third, you still have a stable of young players that help you out. And don't forget that the Pats love to trade down on draft day and pick up more draft picks.

You may say that, but on the other hand that means your HC and his scouts rely on the numbers. A great HC and scouting staff are the one who gets the best out of the fewest. I also noticed that Belicheat didn't win any SB since the spygate.