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What did the Packers do?

maskedsuperstar

By maskedsuperstar
in The Stadium

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stwasm

stwasm

Posted
Posted
Not according to this article.

I know you don't want to read this, but the Skins are a team full of holes, thanks to years of Danny and Vinny mucking things up with signing "superstars" and giving away draft picks like candy. The Packers have had a strong, competent executive leadership in place for years to give them the talent and depth that the Skins just don't have right now.

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HBnotBlades

HBnotBlades

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I think one of the main reasons the Packers had an easy transition is that they spent a top 10 pick on a nose tackle as well as having a solid one already on the roster. We on the other hand picked up a guy recovering from an injury that is sometimes career ending and thought we could convert a pass rushing DT into a NT. The Ryan Pickett played great for the packers last year and BJ Raji looked pretty good when he was in the game, each taking on multiple blockers and freeing up linebackers to make plays.

When I watch our games, I see Kemo getting knocked two yards off the ball at the snap by the center alone and the guards easily moving to the second level to block our linebackers. If you have poor NT play in the 3-4, it's like playing with only 10 defenders. Hopefully Bryant can play this week because I think our defense has looked significantly better with him in there over Kemo.

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KDawg

KDawg

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First, I want to make sure people realize that I'm not panicking. We have a lot of time to right the ship and I really like the 3-4. I just don't like the lack of any transition period to it and I'm not sure we picked the right coach for the job.

Let's do a side by side comparison of the talent on that 2009 Green Bay team and our team...

Defensive End:

Redskins: Kedric Golston/Adam Carriker

Packers: Johnny Jolly/Cullen Jenkins

Advantage:Green Bay Packers. Carriker has played very well for us so far this year, but talent wise the edge has to go to the Packers. Jolly is a solid defensive tackle, which is what the end spot in the 3-4 really is. Golston isn't as bad as people give him credit for and in reality I actually think this is a really close match up. But I give the edge to the Packers.

Nose Tackle:

Redskins: Maake Kemoeatu (92)

Packers: Ryan Pickett (BJ Raji)

Advantage: Green Bay Packers. Kemo is still injured it appears, so this may not be a fair assessment. Pickett started the season for the Packers at nose and that's roughly the time that the Packers struggled. There seems to be a direct correlation with the nose tackle position and success in the 3-4 scheme. Kemo and Pickett are a push to me. Where it swings is the backup spot. 92 could be a very good nose if he decided to take on the challenge rather than whine about it, or if he wanted to even be in Washington. If this were a question on the better 4-3 tackle, 92 would win hands down, but its not. Raji accepts his spot, works hard to play the spot and anchors that entire Packer defensive line. The Packers get the edge.

Outside Linebackers:

Redskins: Brian Orakpo/Andre Carter(Lorenzo Alexander)

Packers: Aaron Kampman(Brad Jones)/Clay Matthews

Advantage: Green Bay Packers. Matthews and Orakpo are a very close comparison, I give the two of them a push. Carter is being utilized poorly in this defense and it makes a good football player such as Carter look terrible. Kampman is no longer with the Pack, but he was also a better fit than Carter at the OLB spot, although not tons better. Brad Jones fits the 3-4 better than Andre Carter, and he was splitting time with Kampman. That alone gives Green Bay the edge as a whole. If I had to pick two outside backers from this list to start for me, though, it would be Matthews/Orakpo.

Inside Linebacker:

Redskins: Rocky McIntosh/London Fletcher

Packers: AJ Hawk/Nick Barnett

Advantage: Push, as much as I'd like to say Redskins advantage. London Fletcher is a leader, a legend and just a great football player... but THUS FAR he has not played very well in the 3-4 scheme. That's expected, he's played in the 4-3 for his entire career and is used to being protected by the four front. It's growing pains for him. Rocky has played fairly well, he's third in the NFL in tackles at this point, but he's making a lot of stops down field as he's having some of the same struggles Fletcher is. AJ Hawk didn't fit the scheme terribly well, either, but he fits it a bit better than London. He probably fits it about the same as McIntosh. The wild card here is Nick Barnett. Barnett had 4 sacks and mediocre tackle numbers.

Secondary:

Redskins: DeAngelo Hall, Carlos Rogers, Kareem Moore, LaRon Landry

Packers: Al Harris, Charles Woodson, Atari Bigby, Nick Collins

Advantage: Green Bay Packers. Landry is a stud this year, but Nick Collins and Atari Bigby can both play the game as well. Bigby is generally their strong safety, so the edge in that battle goes to Landry by quite a bit. However the Packer free safety is much better than Kareem Moore at this point. Nick Collins was a Pro Bowler last year and recorded six interceptions. We're still not sure how good Moore is, so regardless, Collins gets the nod. But, even if Moore is as good as I believe him to be, Collins is still better. Packer advantage there. Woodson/Harris vs. Hall/Rogers isn't even close. Woodson was the best corner in the game last year in my opinion. Bar none. Al Harris may be a better overall corner than both DeAngelo Hall and Carlos Rogers. Hall is a very good playmaker, but playmaker to playmaker (Hall vs. Woodson) the edge goes to Woodson. Coverage wise between the two, the edge goes to Woodson. Al Harris is a better cover guy than Rogers and they are about equal in run support. The edge goes to Harris. Therefore Green Bay gets the edge there, too.

Coaching:

Redskins: Jim Haslett

Packers: Dom Capers

Advantage: Green Bay Packers. Haslett took over Pittsburgh's D in 1997 from Dick LeBeau and each and every year that he was there the team's record and defense got worse. They were still a top 15 defense in the league for pretty much all three years he was there, but they swan dived in rush defense every year while keeping pass defense near the top of the league. Dom Capers ran the Steelers D from 92-94. In 93 he finished third in the league in total defense, in 94 he finished second in total defense. He was the Jags coordinator from 99 to 2000. In 98, the Jags were 25th in the NFL in defense. In 99, Capers first year, they were fourth. It speaks for itself. Edge: Green Bay

Conclusion: Green Bay's roster was in better shape to make the full transition to the 3-4 last year than ours is. We needed to ease into the transition. We didn't.

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Glenn X

Glenn X

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The Packers defense looked mediocre for about the first half of the season then it clicked and finished #2 overall. People around here with their knee jerk reactions have no patience.

I must concur. Our biggest problem on defense is that we don't have a legit 3-4 nosetackle currently on our roster. That can hopefully be rectified next offseason via the draft or free agency (assuming there's no lockout).

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LD0506

LD0506

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I know you don't want to read this, but the Skins are a team full of holes, thanks to years of Danny and Vinny mucking things up with signing "superstars" and giving away draft picks like candy. The Packers have had a strong, competent executive leadership in place for years to give them the talent and depth that the Skins just don't have right now.

Precisely why we need to let competent management fix the mess and take the time to do it right, and all the little short-attention-span momos that think they understand football because they play Madden on their XBox need to go sit in the STFU corner for a couple seasons.

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AngloSackSon

AngloSackSon

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Let's do a side by side comparison of the talent on that 2009 Green Bay team and our team...

Pretty solid analysis there, KDawg.

I do think you under-emphasized the difference in NT play, though. In my estimation, this has been the worst factor so far. The way teams are dominating Maake, Haynesworth, and Bryant(to a lesser degree..) has resulted in the difficulties Fletcher, et al have had in stopping the run through the A gaps, AND allowed teams to neutralize the blitz the last 2 weeks.

The 'Skins corner blitz has been the only success with Haslett's scheme thus far, and now that there is film on these looks, teams can beat it easily.(St. Louis..)

And, yes, our secondary is really struggling with the zone schemes. REALLY, really, really struggling...:2cents:

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KDawg

KDawg

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I do think you under-emphasized the difference in NT play, though. In my estimation, this has been the worst factor so far. The way teams are dominating Maake, Haynesworth, and Bryant(to a lesser degree..) has resulted in the difficulties Fletcher, et al have had in stopping the run through the A gaps, AND allowed teams to neutralize the blitz the last 2 weeks.

I don't think I under emphasized it at all. Our nose tackle play has been pretty bad. Pickett, though, isn't a very good nose. So it comes down to 92 vs. Raji. 92 is a good football player, as much as I hate the guy. He's not a nose, primarily because he doesn't want to be, not because he's not capable of it. Raji IS a nose and he's a stud of a nose. As I said above, the Packers play picked up once Mr. Raji began to start. I don't think that's underemphasizing anything.

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LD0506

LD0506

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Posted
Thanks :ols:

Sorry, I'm a lil cranky after the reaction to the Rams game but I'm an old fart now, I am not just allowed to be, I am expected to be.

It gets tiresome to see all the posts stating "I don't like the coaches doing ________", when what they should be saying is "I don't understand the coaches doing ________".

The % of people here pretending a grasp of the game far beyond their ken is mindboggling.

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KDawg

KDawg

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Sorry, I'm a lil cranky after the reaction to the Rams game but I'm an old fart now, I am not just allowed to be, I am expected to be.

It gets tiresome to see all the posts stating "I don't like the coaches doing ________", when what they should be saying is "I don't understand the coaches doing ________".

The % of people here pretending a grasp of the game far beyond their ken is mindboggling.

I like to think I have a shred of football knowledge and you just shattered that. Thanks. :ols:

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HBnotBlades

HBnotBlades

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I don't think I under emphasized it at all. Our nose tackle play has been pretty bad. Pickett, though, isn't a very good nose. So it comes down to 92 vs. Raji. 92 is a good football player, as much as I hate the guy. He's not a nose, primarily because he doesn't want to be, not because he's not capable of it. Raji IS a nose and he's a stud of a nose. As I said above, the Packers play picked up once Mr. Raji began to start. I don't think that's underemphasizing anything.

I could be wrong, but I thought Pickett was essentially the starter for the entire year. Raji did get more and more playing time as the year went on though and he's definitely the starter this year.

I watched a lot of Packers games last year because my roommate was a big fan and I'll say that Pickett looked infinitely better than Kemo has this year. Pickett isn't much of a playmaker, but he could at least hold the line and absorb a block or two without getting driven back into the linebackers. Kemo, I'm sorry to say, has looked very weak at the point of attack and as another poster said, it looks like he's playing in roller skates. I really hope his poor play is due to not being fully recovered from his injury and he'll improve as the year goes on.

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