The Official Washington Basketball Thread: Wizards, Mystics etc

[StillUnknown]

I can't see Perry Jones being successful as a 4 in the league, i think he'll be best as a small forward

[RonArtest15]

I couldn't disagree more with anything you've said.

1) You can't judge players on stats and box scores. Pointing out that Perry Jones is only averaging 1/2 point more than Barnes and 5 more minutes means absolutely nothing to me. You can't judge basketball players by stats.

2) You say that Jones isn't a lock because he isn't the best at his position this year...which has nothing to do with where he will be drafted this year. Kemba Walker is arguably the best player in the NCAA this year and he likely wont sniff the lottery

3) Perry Jones is definitely a 4 at the next level. You can't teach size. You need to go look at tape of KG when he came out....he didn't have the "size" of a 4 either...you are acting like this guy isn't going to grow anymore...like he isn't going to put on weight. PFs need to be able to shoot in today's NBA to be elite...look at Gasol and TD.

Agreed.

Perry Jones' versatility is unmatched in college b-ball today. When is the last time you saw a guy 6'10+ TRUSTED to bring the ball up the floor? What...Odom at URI? Anyways, Jones has lived up to his billing IMO (and that's what has separated him and Barnes). You can tell that his upside is tremendous and he doesn't need another year at Baylor. I really hope he somehow lands in DC next year.

Barnes on the other hand has been awful. It's no knock on the guy or you, but it seems like you've convinced yourself that he's playing better than he actually is. He's been a bust and clearly needs another year of seasoning in Chapel Hill. Like I said before, maybe his game will translate better to the pros, but I'm not seeing it.

Edited January 21, 2011 by RonArtest15

[Gator Bait]

I can't see Perry Jones being successful as a 4 in the league, i think he'll be best as a small forward

why don't you think he'll be good? He has the height, can put on the muscle (weight) and can score inside or out. I think he could be the next KG

[ACW]

A coworker gave me 2 tix to tomorrow's game. Wall vs. Rondo, 200 level. First to PM me gets the other ticket

[StillUnknown]

Wall is racking up assists early, 7 already in the 1st quarter

edit, he now has 9

Edited January 22, 2011 by StillUnknown

[Skin'emAlive]

Why do the wizards suck so bad in the 3rd quarter? Every damn game they play they give up in the 3rd quarter!

---------- Post added January-21st-2011 at 09:20 PM ----------

Nevermind, i know why. Flip is terrible. Where the hell did McGee go in the second half? Why does Blatche still get so much time when he is pulling triple spin moves in the paint and missing? Why does the entire team run away from the basket after a shot? Its not like getting back will help them defend any better. They cant defend in the first place!

[Taylor 21]

I absolutely cant stand watching Blatche play anymore. The things he does on the basketball court make me cringe.

[Going Commando]

More Kevin Seraphin please. I thought he was actually pretty good tonight. I think he should get some of Blatche's minutes.

Also I agree wtf did McGee go in the second half? Did he have to run home because he forgot his inhaler? Jesus this team is soft in the paint. The Suns of all teams worked us there!

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

Look at who our bigs are. Rashard, SF. Yi, drafted as a SF. McGee, long and athletic but not really tough. At all. Blatche, no comment.

Booker and Seraphin are the only two big's we have that bring it, and Blatche is **** blocking both of them on minutes. I praised Blatche for his play the other night, but that's an exception, not a rule (kinda like a good half a season (in a contract year) in five years.) I really feel that he holds the team back in a big way.

Edited January 22, 2011 by G.A.C.O.L.B.

[Going Commando]

I couldn't disagree more with anything you've said.

1) You can't judge players on stats and box scores. Pointing out that Perry Jones is only averaging 1/2 point more than Barnes and 5 more minutes means absolutely nothing to me. You can't judge basketball players by stats.

Did you read anything I said about Barnes? Clearly I'm not basing my argument off of stats. I'm just pointing out how neither have had the kind of scoring impact they were expected to have. But no one is dumping on Jones for his inconsistent effort and then on the other hand people are talking about how Barnes shouldn't even declare this year. Maybe if you just started following the season a week or two you'd think Jones has been great. But he's been just as inconsistent as Barnes.

2) You say that Jones isn't a lock because he isn't the best at his position this year...which has nothing to do with where he will be drafted this year. Kemba Walker is arguably the best player in the NCAA this year and he likely wont sniff the lottery

What does Kemba Walker have to do with Jones? I gave you three forwards who are either freshmen or sophomores who have all been better than Jones this year by a substantial margin. Terrence Jones, Derrick Williams, and Jared Sullinger are all definitely lottery picks. They'll probably go top five. The athletic upside for Williams and T. Jones is comparable to Perry Jones's as well so it's not like he's going to go first overall by default. I understand how the draft works. There is no consensus top player in this class yet. There might not be one when draft day arrives unless someone has a dominant tournament.

3) Perry Jones is definitely a 4 at the next level. You can't teach size. You need to go look at tape of KG when he came out....he didn't have the "size" of a 4 either...you are acting like this guy isn't going to grow anymore...like he isn't going to put on weight. PFs need to be able to shoot in today's NBA to be elite...look at Gasol and TD.

Why would you take someone who has the ability to be a truly special wing player and turn him into a mediocre 4? I know that 19 year old players grow, I'm not an idiot. I'm talking about his skill set, which is far more suited to playing the wing than the post. I don't care what his height and reach numbers are, he needs to play on the perimeter. He's a great runner, great passer, great shooter, great ball handler, and a good perimeter defender--with absolutely no post game whatsoever. He'll get abused in the post by even mediocre athletes at PF like Jared Sullinger. This from draftexpress.com:

Jones had no problem putting behind a very disappointing high school senior season behind him, showing immediately in the practices why he’s arguably the best long term prospect of any player in this class. His body has developed noticeably since we last saw him, and his athleticism and upside is clearly off the charts. He did a great job of showing his perimeter skills as well, in particular his shooting stroke, which looked outstanding even out to the 3-point line. Defensively, he was active and aggressive rotating from the weak-side as a shot-blocker, but struggled at times in man to man situations, particularly when being backed down by the super strong and tough Jared Sullinger.

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Perry-Jones-5713/#ixzz1BjkvuGJb

Also from that site:

In terms of weaknesses, there are a few you could point towards. One would be his complete lack of a back to the basket game, something you’d like to see him develop considering the quickness and nifty footwork he displays. He needs to get stronger in the lower body first, and probably quite a bit tougher in the paint as well.

He also doesn’t always box out for rebounds, and is way too upright trying to guard the post, often just waiting for an opportunity to go and chase a blocked shot, rather than trying to deny position and play solid man to man defense. These are not very rare things for a big man this young, especially one who is a very late bloomer, like Jones clearly is, having experienced a late growth spurt that saw him shoot up dramatically over the course of a few years.

He's a perimeter player in the NBA. If you take him and play him at the 4 it'll put him in a position he's not nearly as good at and give us another soft big with a mediocre basketball IQ to pair alongside Javale... lovely.

Also, Perry Jones looks more like Tracy McGrady than KG. He doesn't play with a fraction of the aggression and ferocity that KG plays with.

---------- Post added January-22nd-2011 at 12:09 AM ----------

Agreed.

Perry Jones' versatility is unmatched in college b-ball today. When is the last time you saw a guy 6'10+ TRUSTED to bring the ball up the floor? What...Odom at URI? Anyways, Jones has lived up to his billing IMO (and that's what has separated him and Barnes). You can tell that his upside is tremendous and he doesn't need another year at Baylor. I really hope he somehow lands in DC next year.

Barnes on the other hand has been awful. It's no knock on the guy or you, but it seems like you've convinced yourself that he's playing better than he actually is. He's been a bust and clearly needs another year of seasoning in Chapel Hill. Like I said before, maybe his game will translate better to the pros, but I'm not seeing it.

On what grounds are you making this argument? No offense, but it seems like you haven't watched him play. How can Perry Jones have lived up to his billing and put up nearly the same numbers as Barnes and you consider Barnes to have been awful?

---------- Post added January-22nd-2011 at 12:14 AM ----------

why don't you think he'll be good? He has the height, can put on the muscle (weight) and can score inside or out. I think he could be the next KG

Why force a square peg into a round hole when he can be one of the best 3s in the league one day? He's not the next KG. He's a beta dog and looks more like the next Javale McGee when he's playing the post. He's too soft to be the force in the paint that KG is.

Edited January 22, 2011 by stevemcqueen1

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

Terrence Jones.

I win.

Hey what's the deal with two top international guys? Motiejunas and Kanter? Upside? Risk? Etc

Edited January 22, 2011 by G.A.C.O.L.B.

[No Excuses]

I had a good time at the game except for the old couple sitting in front of me. Listen gramps. I'm at a sporting event. I'm going to occasionally say "what the ****???" and "**** that" and yell BOOOOOOOOO at bad calls. If you got a problem then gtfo. I hate being rude to people in general but damn, get of your high horse. You pay less money to sit in the upper level, then you deal with rowdy people. If class and etiquette really matters to you then please go sit with majority of the losers in the lower ball.

Otherwise, it was a typical Wizards game. Out competed the other team for half the game. The other team (well Channing Frye) started raining threes, we couldn't respond and everything fell apart. I like that Seraphin has taken over Armstrong in the rotation. He's really raw but man his skill set is nice. Good touch around the rim, good positioning for rebounding and sets solid picks. He just needs to work on catching passes and increasing his B-ball IQ.

I also can't wait till Al Thornton is no longer on this team.

[chipwhich]

I had a good time at the game except for the old couple sitting in front of me. Listen gramps. I'm at a sporting event. I'm going to occasionally say "what the ****???" and "**** that" and yell BOOOOOOOOO at bad calls.

If your wtf'ing at one of the worst franchises in the NBA for the last 30 years, what do you expect.

Glad you feel good about wtf'ing in your cheap seats.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch, you were watching the same thing I did for 30. It's kind of silly to WTF.

[No Excuses]

If your wtf'ing at one of the worst franchises in the NBA for the last 30 years, what do you expect.

Glad you feel good about wtf'ing in your cheap seats.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch, you were watching the same thing I did for 30. It's kind of silly to WTF.

Trust me, I'm not WTF'ing in disdain. It's all in good fun. My friend and I spent most of the game making fun of how dumb Blatche, McGee and Al Thornton are. Most of the expletives were directly aimed at these three losers.

But apparently, the definition of crowd normality for old people is that everyone sit in their seats quietly and just watch. Old people... right chip?

Edited January 22, 2011 by No Excuses

[chipwhich]

Trust me, I'm not WTF'ing in disdain. It's all in good fun. My friend and I spent most of the game making fun of how dumb Blatche, McGee and Al Thornton are. Most of the expletives were directly aimed at these three losers.

But apparently, the definition of crowd normality for old people is that everyone sit in their seats quietly and just watch. Old people... right chip?

Maybe I will bring you down on the floor with me next time.

Meanwhile, glad your funning the team. It gets to be routine.

[No Excuses]

Maybe I will bring you down on the floor with me next time.

Meanwhile, glad your funning the team. It gets to be routine.

I wouldn't have a problem sitting down with you wine and cheesers.

Oh yeah it definitely is routine. The last time some of us ES members went to a game together (GACOLB, skinfan2k, Marcus; don't know his ES handle but he posts here), we pretty much spent the entire game clowning Blatche. Gotta have fun someway right? :doh:

[RonArtest15]

Did you read anything I said about Barnes? Clearly I'm not basing my argument off of stats. I'm just pointing out how neither have had the kind of scoring impact they were expected to have. But no one is dumping on Jones for his inconsistent effort and then on the other hand people are talking about how Barnes shouldn't even declare this year. Maybe if you just started following the season a week or two you'd think Jones has been great. But he's been just as inconsistent as Barnes.

What does Kemba Walker have to do with Jones? I gave you three forwards who are either freshmen or sophomores who have all been better than Jones this year by a substantial margin. Terrence Jones, Derrick Williams, and Jared Sullinger are all definitely lottery picks. They'll probably go top five. The athletic upside for Williams and T. Jones is comparable to Perry Jones's as well so it's not like he's going to go first overall by default. I understand how the draft works. There is no consensus top player in this class yet. There might not be one when draft day arrives unless someone has a dominant tournament.

Why would you take someone who has the ability to be a truly special wing player and turn him into a mediocre 4? I know that 19 year old players grow, I'm not an idiot. I'm talking about his skill set, which is far more suited to playing the wing than the post. I don't care what his height and reach numbers are, he needs to play on the perimeter. He's a great runner, great passer, great shooter, great ball handler, and a good perimeter defender--with absolutely no post game whatsoever. He'll get abused in the post by even mediocre athletes at PF like Jared Sullinger. This from draftexpress.com:

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Perry-Jones-5713/#ixzz1BjkvuGJb

Also from that site:

He's a perimeter player in the NBA. If you take him and play him at the 4 it'll put him in a position he's not nearly as good at and give us another soft big with a mediocre basketball IQ to pair alongside Javale... lovely.

Also, Perry Jones looks more like Tracy McGrady than KG. He doesn't play with a fraction of the aggression and ferocity that KG plays with.

---------- Post added January-22nd-2011 at 12:09 AM ----------

On what grounds are you making this argument? No offense, but it seems like you haven't watched him play. How can Perry Jones have lived up to his billing and put up nearly the same numbers as Barnes and you consider Barnes to have been awful?

---------- Post added January-22nd-2011 at 12:14 AM ----------

Why force a square peg into a round hole when he can be one of the best 3s in the league one day? He's not the next KG. He's a beta dog and looks more like the next Javale McGee when he's playing the post. He's too soft to be the force in the paint that KG is.

And no offense to you as well, SM, but I don't think YOU have watched much of Perry Jones. If you did, you'd know he's had a good season and is playing well within his conference games...not to mention shooting at a high clip, etc. His upside is FAR greater than Barnes. And yes..please find me one article or person who have mentioned the word "bust" when talking about Jones like they do for Harrison Barnes. You keep comparing the #'s like that's supposed to mean something. Watch the games bro...In a TERRIBLE ACC, Barnes should be dominating especially for being the #1 recruit in the country. But yeah...we'll take solace in the fact that he's doing a lot of things well that don't show up in the score sheet...*shrugs*

*Question....why does Flip continue to jerk McGee around all while giving Blatche a much longer leash?

I also loved the physicality that Seraphin plays with...dude was banging w. Gortat last night.

I wonder what this roster is gonna look like next year?

Edited January 22, 2011 by RonArtest15

[Going Commando]

And no offense to you as well, SM, but I don't think YOU have watched much of Perry Jones. If you did, you'd know he's had a good season and is playing well within his conference games...not to mention shooting at a high clip, etc. His upside is FAR greater than Barnes. And yes..please find me one article or person who have mentioned the word "bust" when talking about Jones like they do for Harrison Barnes. You keep comparing the #'s like that's supposed to mean something. Watch the games bro...In a TERRIBLE ACC, Barnes should be dominating especially for being the #1 recruit in the country. But yeah...we'll take solace in the fact that he's doing a lot of things well that don't show up in the score sheet...*shrugs*

Jones was the #2 recruit and his expectations were just as high. He was the #1 player the year before.

The reason you haven't heard the same "bust" talk about Jones this season is because he hasn't been under the microscope like Barnes has. I've hardly heard anything one way or the other about him. Jones will have a great game and then be held scoreless the next. He's an inconsistent player who's almost as likely to come up invisible as he is to dominate. This is something that's been the case for him since high school.

Also, what difference does upside make when you've got a prospect like Barnes who already has the upside to be an All-Star caliber player in the NBA? After a certain point, there is a diminishing return. One thing I'll say that's as true with the NBA as it is with the NFL--more franchises have been raped and pillaged by falling in love with "upside" than probably anything else.

Barnes has played well. He's not going to light the scoreboard up for UNC. When was the last time any freshman player at UNC did? Never under Roy Williams as far as I can recall. Barnes is still the go to guy in the crunch and he plays well within the structure of that team. It's the same role he'd be asked to play here--good defense, good passing, good BBall IQ, great locker room guy, toughness, versatility on offense, clutch scoring. We already have Wall as our facilitator and Young as our go to guy. We need a second banana wing who will perform all of those aforementioned functions for us or we need a strong PF who can bring us a paint presence.

Perry Jones is a great SF prospect too who brings unique athleticism and length to the position and he'd probably be my #2 wing. I just don't think he's as good a player as Barnes is.

But as a 4, I'd rank Jones well behind Jared Sullinger, who abused Jones during All-Star games. I'd also rank him behind Terrence Jones who fits the combo forward role much better IMO. And Derrick Williams is a similar athlete to P. Jones with a similar blue chip background and similar upside who's been producing at a higher and more consistent level all season long. If I were looking specifically for a 4 or an athletic combo forward, I'd take Sullinger and strongly consider taking T. Jones and Williams ahead of him. I'd take P. Jones specifically if I'm looking for a 3 and Barnes is unavailable.

Edited January 22, 2011 by stevemcqueen1

[StillUnknown]

Terrence Jones.

I win.

Hey what's the deal with two top international guys? Motiejunas and Kanter? Upside? Risk? Etc

i've read some really good things about Kanter, but haven't seen him play at all to give a personal comment on his game. mosts of the scouting reports have him as a very skilled big man, but with some injury concerns

i have no clue about Motiejunas

if Flip & Grunfeld are still here, it wouldn't shock me if they went with Kanter since they don't seem to like McGee that much

Edited January 22, 2011 by StillUnknown

[ACW]

So, I've still got that extra ticket for tonight available. The person who responded first just had something come up. First to PM me gets it.

[pjfootballer]

Why do the wizards suck so bad in the 3rd quarter? Every damn game they play they give up in the 3rd quarter!

---------- Post added January-21st-2011 at 09:20 PM ----------

Nevermind' date=' i know why. Flip is terrible. Where the hell did McGee go in the second half? Why does Blatche still get so much time when he is pulling triple spin moves in the paint and missing? Why does the entire team run away from the basket after a shot? Its not like getting back will help them defend any better. They cant defend in the first place![/quote']

Halftime adjustments. The other coach makes them, ours doesn't.

---------- Post added January-22nd-2011 at 07:27 PM ----------

Boston is kicking our ass right now.

[Skin'emAlive]

Ugh. this wont even be close.

[pjfootballer]

Anyone besides me hate these Boston road unis? I hate the Black trim. Boston should keep their classic road green/white.

---------- Post added January-22nd-2011 at 07:58 PM ----------

KG is in Blatche's head.

[Skin'emAlive]

Meh, i dont mind their jerseys. I do however hate teal. Cant wait until these god awful colors are gone next year.

[skinfan2k]

i love these celtic unis!