Going Commando Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Because Seraphin atleast can hold his ground, block shots without leaving his feet getting out of position for rebounds. He understands how to switch, stop the ball and play screen and rolls. Defense is so much more then block shots and goaltends.I like McGee but lets be honest there is no substance to his game he is all flash. I think you're wrong. I think you're giving McGee too little credit and Serpahin far too much credit. It's obvious we're not going to see eye to eye here. I think you're killing McGee for a few types of plays like pump fake fouls and goal tends when in the grand scheme of a game/season that's a minor negative. I've been a defender of Seraphin in the past but there are only two things he does better than McGee in the entirety of both of their games--set picks and hold ground against an opponent posting up. McGee is better in every other way. I know you watch the games. I can't believe you would seriously think otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosher Ham Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Jeff Van Gundy says the Wizards should not be on National TV. Wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StillUnknown Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Jeff Van Gundy says the Wizards should not be on National TV. Wow. I think Jeff is just trying to make sure he's not on Ted's call list when he's searching for the next coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 how much have you watched this year, because Seraphin has actually had a few really good games. I don't think he is a starting center, but he is def. a back up quality guy for the future and could develop into more. I think I've missed around 7 games. He has the physical tools but he's got a long way to go and needs minutes which he'd get in the d league. I may have missed his better games though. I have seen him not get backed down but perimeter players driving the lane rant terribly bothered by him. ---------- Post added February-12th-2012 at 09:32 PM ---------- Jeff Van Gundy says the Wizards should not be on National TV. Wow. I heard him say that. Guy gets his hair back and suddenly he doesn't have time for the wizards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 You sound like Cowherd. Everything can be boiled down to a single play/point of course. Everything can be sussed out in a complete vacuum. This is sports talk radio debate, not subject to a connection to reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gator Bait Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 well he only had a few really good games; so it is very possible you missed them in those 7 games. He showed enough to make me think he belongs in the NBA as our backup center getting 15 minutes per game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samuels Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 I think you're wrong. I think you're giving McGee too little credit and Serpahin far too much credit. It's obvious we're not going to see eye to eye here. I think you're killing McGee for a few types of plays like pump fake fouls and goal tends when in the grand scheme of a game/season that's a minor negative.I've been a defender of Seraphin in the past but there are only two things he does better than McGee in the entirety of both of their games--set picks and hold ground against an opponent posting up. McGee is better in every other way. I know you watch the games. I can't believe you would seriously think otherwise. I like McGee FOR HIS POTENTIAL i'd like to keep him or atleast sign and trade him. I'm just a oldschool purist I grew up playing the right way. McGee has all the athletism in the world, its off the charts his lenght,jumping ability, speed etc for a guy his size its very tantalizing and rare. But he just don't understand the game at all. His post defense could be better if he would develop a stronger base. But his pick&roll defense, switches, awarness etc is awful. He don't even completely show half the time to stop the ball its laughable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Jeff Van Gundy says the Wizards should not be on National TV. Wow. Why wow? He's absolutely right. They're awful and have no national interest. Why should they be on national TV? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosher Ham Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Even though I am not a fan, I think all teams should have a national game. They are a bad team right now, but they should have the same chances as other teams to build their teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 (edited) I don't care that the market overpays centers in free agency. It's a bad move even if everyone else is doing it.The market constitutes reality. Who are you to say what constitutes overpaying?Yes, just like I'm going to ignore the 24/9 Andray Blatche put up over 30 games a couple years ago. And even then, McGee's defense was not "excellent", it was "average" after being far below average.I disagree. His individual defense was excellent--not average. I watch a lot of the rest of the league. I'm going to tell you that what you define as "average" is unrealistic.Actually, blocks are qualitatively different. Guys like Big Ben in his prime, Bill Russell, Tim Duncan, they get blocked shots in the context of their team defense through anticipation, timing and positioning. Guys like Javale McGee get their blocks by gambling on every shot attempt they feasibly can, which leads to constant biting on pumpfakes, getting out of position, and giving up a lot of points. This makes McGee a detriment to team defense. McGee has improved in that regard - but he's gone from unspeakably awful to just bad.You're exaggerating for one and for another thing, don't seriously bring up Bill Russell in debate like this. You and I obviously have never seen him play and were not alive to appreciate the contemporaneous context of his play.With Duncan and Ben Wallace, those guys played on fabulous defenses top to bottom, and were transcendent defenders, obviously better than McGee. But it's a lot easier to look like a great team defender when you're also getting transcendent perimeter defense in front of you. He sells out to make big plays because opponents get free run to the rim. Do you have any idea how much that sucks for a big? You can't play good defense like that. When the defense is excellent on the perimeter and his PF is doing a good job, McGee ranges from good to dominant. That's what we saw tonight. Are you saying Drummond or Davis can't be better than a below-average C? Or Robinson? Hell, Ves with 20 pounds of muscle is a better center than McGee right now. I am ABSOLUTELY saying that. Drummond is a loser with about as much heart and competitiveness as Kwame. Have you been watching him this year? He Forde said he's quit competing. No thanks. I wouldn't trade McGee for Drummond straight up. Drummond is nowhere near ready for the NBA. You realize Davis is like 210 pounds at most right? Vesely gets posted up successfully by guards and he's supposedly 240 pounds. Both of those are horrible and untenable plans to replace McGee, completely disregarding the obvious fact that both are college freshmen and the top two projected draft picks in this year's class. There is every chance in the world that we will have 0 chance of acquiring either of them. Davis is a future NBA stretch PF and Drummond is a future NBA bust. Starting Vesely at C next year means you're going to need a backup center who can play 30 minutes a game after Vesely fouls himself onto the bench. Doing that would ruin Vesely's development IMO. He's an NBA forward. No realistic 2012/2013 rookie or sophomore C is a viable option at C for us if we want to contend with John Wall as our PG. Kanter is the only one I could see from that category and there's no realistic way we're getting him. McGee might get 10m per year on the market. Scrubs like Charlie V get 10m per year. But he's not even an average center because he's not even average on defense, barely average offensively, and somewhat above-average on the boards in a contract year. He's also an immature mama's boy who's soft and doesn't do the fundamental things on the court that help a team win.This sounds more like you've got a non basketball agenda against McGee than anything else. I'm not convinced by anything you raise here.Normally when we're trying to defend a player by talking about the players he plays with - we're really saying that player needs to be hidden on defense so his negative impact can be minimized. Nope. That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that McGee can't be effective when the defense around him is terrible. No center can. I'm saying he can be effective when the defense around him is at least good, like it was tonight. EDIT: Regarding Thomas Robinson, he's another NBA PF. He doesn't have the length and bulk to be a good, full time NBA center. If you draft him, you're way better off paying McGee and starting Robinson at PF. Edited February 13, 2012 by stevemcqueen1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G.A.C.O.L.B. Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Pro-McGee folks: whats your limit on resigning him? What's the number, $$/years, that you won't go past to bring him back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiCkSoULjA Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Pro-McGee folks: whats your limit on resigning him? What's the number, $$/years, that you won't go past to bring him back? 6 years 8-10 million per I wouldn't say that's my limit but I think sounds realistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G.A.C.O.L.B. Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Even though I am not a fan, I think all teams should have a national game. They are a bad team right now, but they should have the same chances as other teams to build their teams. You can't really talk **** when the entire fanbase admits the team is dreadful man. All you're gonna get in response is a "duh". Boring, I know. Sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skin'emAlive Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 But no, the Magical Development Fairy is going to come and sprinkle her fairy dust and make all our players glaring problems go away, just like she has for every other talented knucklehead we've had come through the pike. In 2002 it was Kwame. In 2005 it was Jarvis Hayes. In 2009 it was Andray Blatche. Now its Javale McGee. Hey now... Kwame wasnt a knuckle head. He just sucked, and had no mental toughness at all. Jarvis was ok until the horrific knee injury ( I blame wizards medical staff for his, Rip, Gilbert, and Butler's injuries), and his name was changed to 'Arvis. Blatche is more than a knuckle head, but that has been beaten to death at this point. McGee is no knuckle head. He is just a good athletic center that really needs a good supporting cast so he can shine. We have no one outside of NY who can shoot, but he is a black hole. As i read on another board, " Nick Young only shoots when he has the ball. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 (edited) "JaVale was the MVP of this game," Pistons coach Lawrence Frank said. "He had eight dunks, and he had a huge defensive impact on the game in the paint. He might have only gotten two, but he's the best shotblocker in the game, and you always know he's there. He changes a lot of shots."McGee's presence was a big reason why the Pistons hit just 42 percent of their shots in the paint and saw their four-game winning streak snapped. http://m.espn.go.com/nba/gamecast?gameId=320212008What a dumb ass! Doesn't he know McGee is a terrible defender?! Edit: ESPN "high lights" show only the pistons mistakes.... **** them. Edited February 13, 2012 by Destino Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skin'emAlive Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Pro-McGee folks: whats your limit on resigning him? What's the number, $$/years, that you won't go past to bring him back? Id go 6 years, 18-20 mil with incentives. and an ability to renegotiate after 2-3 years. I truly believe he has the tools to be the a future star on this team. We just need some smart shooters on this team at SF, SG, and another PF who can make his own shot. I like Booker, but he is all hustle. He cant shoot all that well beyond 6 feet. If we get a good coach who can teach McGee the pick and roll, and a starting cast with Wall... i think McGee will be a terror out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StillUnknown Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Id go 6 years' date=' 18-20 mil with incentives. and an ability to renegotiate after 2-3 years. I truly believe he has the tools to be the a future star on this team. We just need some smart shooters on this team at SF, SG, and another PF who can make his own shot. I like Booker, but he is all hustle. He cant shoot all that well beyond 6 feet. If we get a good coach who can teach McGee the pick and roll, and a starting cast with Wall... i think McGee will be a terror out there.[/quote']Booker's jumpshot has gotten alot better since he started getting regular minutes with the starting lineup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skin'emAlive Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Booker's jumpshot has gotten alot better since he started getting regular minutes with the starting lineup. True... but that doesnt stop me from cringing when he shoots. He is a solid 14-15 ppg pf. I would rather have a 18-20ppg pf starting, then let booker kill it as a sub. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gator Bait Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 True... but that doesnt stop me from cringing when he shoots. He is a solid 14-15 ppg pf. I would rather have a 18-20ppg pf starting' date=' then let booker kill it as a sub.[/quote']He's only in his second year, he could possibly be a 20ppg guy. I'm hoping we sign Paul Milsap in the offseason though, he would add a lot to this team....and like you said, we could have booker killing it off the bench, still getting 20-30 minutes each game. ---------- Post added February-13th-2012 at 12:55 AM ---------- 6 years 8-10 million per I wouldn't say that's my limit but I think sounds realistic. sounds about right to me. He'll get paid, I definitely wouldn't pay anymore than that though. ---------- Post added February-13th-2012 at 12:56 AM ---------- 6 years 8-10 million per I wouldn't say that's my limit but I think sounds realistic. sounds about right to me. He'll get paid, I definitely wouldn't pay anymore than that though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StillUnknown Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 True... but that doesnt stop me from cringing when he shoots. He is a solid 14-15 ppg pf. I would rather have a 18-20ppg pf starting' date=' then let booker kill it as a sub.[/quote']Seeing Booker develop is probably my favorite thing from the team so far this season. He knew he had to get his jumper going if he wanted to get more minutes, and its starting to pay off, and its nice to have a PF who's not afraid to actually post up. My ideal draft would be to get Thomas Robinson with our initial selection, then find a way to get another lottery pick and pick up a wing player (although my top choice to solve the SG problem is Eric Gordon) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G.A.C.O.L.B. Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 (edited) GACOLB has been high on Booker for a while and I have to give him his due on that call. Booker looks like he can be a starting PF in this league and is close to getting a mid range shot down. I've been high AND low on many players over the years. Now I normally don't like to toot my own horn, but here I have to. I'm almost always ahead of the curve and ultimately correct. Brendon over Etan. D Steezy (who I was a fan of) being finished/washed up. I was way, waaaay on top of Blatche being a bum. Hell, my one and only ban on this site (two weeks) was for mocking another member's (hands11, anyone remember him?) infatuation with Blatche. That was Blatche's 2nd year in the league. The same will be true with McGee shortly here. If I wasn't so tired and could think straight, there'd be more. There was one I was wrong about though. So wrong... Jarvis was ok until the horrific knee injury and his name was changed to 'Arvis. I think I had a sig bet with someone on wizardsextreme that Jarvis would average 16PPG or more at least once in his career. He had a couple of semi-decent seasons (10+ ppg) but never close to 16. Is he even in the league still? I haven't seen him n years. Also, IIRC Jarvis had gotten surgeries on both of his knees while in college--people ripped the FO even harder because of that. Took me 20 mins to write this post--so tired and nodding off. I'm gonna think of some more names and come back tomorrow. To sum it up though: G.A.C.O.L.B. says McGee is a bum/over- hyped/destined for failure. G.A.C.O.L.B. is almost never wrong. Therefore... Edited February 13, 2012 by G.A.C.O.L.B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skin'emAlive Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Ah... i remember hands11. He left after the downfall of the Wizards forum on extremeskins. He was fun to debate though. You know i was only ever wrong twice. I truly thought Gilbert could have come back as good as he was before. And i still think that. His problem was half physical half mental. Both of them resulting from mismanagement of wizards staff. I hope he signs with LA and plays well. Im rooting for him. The other was Yi Jianlian. I thought that he would come on to this team with his ripped vein arms and be a force on the inside with Mcgee. After last season, he was the second most disliked guy on this team for me after blatche and before NY. Man he played like a little girl. But i always disagreed with the Dsteezy/Haywood/Butler trade. Stevenson was still a great defender for a couple seasons after the trade. This helped the mavs win the title. I always like Stevenson. He had charisma. Might have had a few problems, namely because at the time Lebron was ESPN's poster boy and he got a bad rap for telling it like it is. Haywood was serviceable... but im ok with him leaving after posting career numbers in a contract year. His shot regressed afterwards. Butler however would still play well with this team right now. Although i was always frustrated when he would pull his patented head-fake shot every time, even though he was wide open. Albeit he did make most of them anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonArtest15 Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 LOL, I knew I recognized that Hands SN. He posts on RealGM, and he still backs Blatche to the 100th degree. Always on some "give him some time to develop" steez LOL. Anyways, I LOVED what I saw out of the Wizards last night. Seeing McGee dominate like he did just further infuriates me as to WHY he can't play with that type of consistency on a regular basis. I'm hot/cold with him. I'm honestly cool with whatever way the Wizards decide to go as far as retaining him or letting him walk. Interesting article on Bullets Forever. League source was saying that the highest Nick Young would return is a 2nd round pick and cash. I think the team should hold out until desperation(sp?) sets in with other squads in need of a scoring spark off the bench. Someone MAY offer a late 1st for him. Wizards have to make some moves....show the fans (and other players) that they are serious about turning things around. I'll be VERY disappointed if they stand pat at the deadline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Why trade Nick Young at all if all you get back is a 2nd? This team is too young as it is and a 2nd rounder is frankly not needed. The team needs a scorer this season to avoid being entirely inept which could lead to a locker room implosion. Crawford is not ready to start. If we get a serious offer I could see trading him if we got value but not for nothing. Developing players has value as well and having no scorers at all makes that difficult. He's not good but he is, sadly, the teams leading scorer. Get value or just part ways at the end of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperBash Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 (edited) Damn the Blazers have a huge starting five. LA about to take our PF's to school. Literally as I type that...he goes down. Edited February 15, 2012 by SuperBash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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