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The Official Washington Basketball Thread: Wizards, Mystics etc


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Austin Rivers has some really impressive skills. He might be even better off the dribble than Kyrie Irving was last year. I like the way he finishes with either hand and he can really break defenders down and score. I love his runner. It reminds me of Chris Paul.

I like Beal ahead of him because I think Beal is stronger and more versatile--can rebound and really thrive off the ball. But Rivers is someone we've really got to take a look at too IMO.

That said, as good as his other shooting numbers are, why are his FT #s so low?

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Nick Young is never going to get that kind of value back. Every player on this team has depressed value because of our bad team performance and the perception that they're making a young star (Wall) look bad. You'd be lucky if you got a late 1st for NY.

I think McGee has to go too (what does he do well exactly? He's a good rebounder, but he's 7'1 with Blake Griffin esque athleticism and Dwight Howard-esque length - he SHOULD be a good rebounder, a bad defender and an inefficient scorer, and this is after 3.5 years in the NBA!), and I actually see Ves as our PF of the future, and Davis or Drummond as our C of the future. I think Ves will develop a decent shot, he's already a great finisher, defender and passer, as well as a good offensive rebounder. He also has a Haywood-esque impact on the defensive glass in that he boxes out and creates boards for the team, even if his individual numbers aren't dominant.

If we don't land a top 2 pick, then I'd draft Kidd-Gilchrist and sign Harden in 2013 (no way New Orleans lets Gordon go even if he gets a max deal).

Is McGee an inefficient scorer? Is he a bad defender? Think people would say that if he played on Chicago? I don't think he'd look nearly as bad on a team that actually plays TEAM defense.

Vesely's biggest problem on defense is his strength and size and I think he's actually heavier than Davis. Also, Jason Kid went from can't shoot to shooter but that doesn't mean it's likely. It's more likely Vesely will get stronger than him suddenly developing a great J.

Edited by Destino
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Is McGee an inefficient scorer? Is he a bad defender? Think people would say that if he played on Chicago? I don't think he'd look nearly as bad on a team that actually plays TEAM defense.

He'd be easier to hide, but his problems on defense are fundamental. Bad defending the P&R, bad rotations, still bites on most fakes (though not all like he used to). He's an inefficient scorer when given attempts. When he's asked to score on putbacks he looks inefficient.

McGee is trash. If he was "only" as talented as Tyrus Thomas he'd be playing just to stay in the NBA. Terrible fundamentals, a flat out idiot as a basketball player, atrocious intangibles - pretty much everything that could be wrong with a player between the ears is wrong with McGee, except I guess he doesn't do drugs. He literally does not do ANYTHING well skill-wise - but he's physically in the same class as Dwight so people hold out hope he can be a legitimate starting C in the NBA. Amazing.

Edited by The Robert Griffin Experience
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Couple of thoughts on a huge day in NCAAMBB:

1.) Another huge day from Thomas Robinson. I think he's the natural choice for POTY. I see very little chance of him failing in the NBA.

2.) I love the way Jared Sullinger plays the game... most days. Today was not a good day for him or his team. He was clearly frustrated and got exposed a bit IMO. I don't think he's as high floor a player as I originally thought. He can bully around the paint but has some issues finishing on the great looks he creates. He lacks the touch of an elite post player at this point in his career and he boils over/doesn't keep an even keel. His post defense was petty good tonight but he's a grounded player that is going to both struggle to defend and get his shot off against long front court players.

3.) Anthony Davis looks awesome right now. There's not a lot he can't do and if he wins POTY, then there isn't a chance in hell he doesn't go #1 overall and it's a huge gap from him to the #2 choice. He is truly special, it doesn't take watching him for long before you see it. Watching him as a true Freshman gives me some of the same feeling watching Durant did. He's the defensive minded PF version of what Kevin Durant was at Texas and has the chance to make the kind of defensive impact on the NBA early that Durant did on offense.

4.) MKG has been a little quiet so far, I want to see him assert himself on the offensive end some more this half.

5.) Interesting day from Brad Beal. His shot wasn't falling but he finds a way to impact the game in so many different ways that he can still have a great day despite a poor shooting performance. I love his game. He's easily the best rebounding guard in the class and that's a part of his game that's going to translate to the NBA.

6.) I like Austin Rivers more after watching him this week than I did before. He's got a lot of advanced ball handling and shooting talent. I'm intrigued.

7.) Good all around day from Harrison Barnes--like usual, but he just doesn't excite me. He lacks the spark of leadership and greatness and I doubt he's ever an NBA All Star.

8.) Perry Jones is a complete scrub. I've completely chilled on him. I'm not impressed with anything he actually does on the court and he's got absolutely no heart. If he had a quarter of the heart and skill that Sully has he'd be the favorite for POTY. As it is, he's a poor man's Anthony Randolph. Quincy Miller is twice the prospect that Jones is. Even still, pathetic showing from Baylor all around.

9.) Terrence Jones is going to make some team really happy in the late teens to early 20s.

10.) John Henson and Tyler Zeller both feel really underrated. If they're 20s picks, then that's a clear illustration of the amazing depth of this class.

---------- Post added February-11th-2012 at 10:44 PM ----------

Also really not impressed by anyone on Uconn this year.

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He'd be easier to hide, but his problems on defense are fundamental. Bad defending the P&R, bad rotations, still bites on most fakes (though not all like he used to). He's an inefficient scorer when given attempts. When he's asked to score on putbacks he looks inefficient.

McGee is trash. If he was "only" as talented as Tyrus Thomas he'd be playing just to stay in the NBA. Terrible fundamentals, a flat out idiot as a basketball player, atrocious intangibles - pretty much everything that could be wrong with a player between the ears is wrong with McGee, except I guess he doesn't do drugs. He literally does not do ANYTHING well skill-wise - but he's physically in the same class as Dwight so people hold out hope he can be a legitimate starting C in the NBA. Amazing.

He's not inefficient. I frankly can't believe that any wizards fan would consider claiming otherwise on a team loaded with examples of inefficiency. Is he an offensive center? No. I don't think ever claimed otherwise. He does look like a double double center on a decent team though.

As for defense I disagree with most of you. Defense in basketball is much more a team result than offense can be. Give Dwight Howard the wizards and he'd foul out and give up easy dunks all day. When McGee moves to help no one rotates to his man, result easy pass nd dunk. Just watch what the Wizards guards do when they, routinely, allow their man free and unobstructed access to the lane. Tell me if you see them running to another man to allow rotation.

I see them doing the same thing I'm doing... Watching.

I think on a team that actually plays defense McGee would look like a asset on defense. He's got much to learn but he's not the problem that stands out when I'm watching.

Edited by Destino
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Exactly Destino. McGee is our second best player and probably our best defender by a large margin. There are many teams starting worse at the pivot than McGee. And you're right, he typically is an efficient offensive player because he has a tiny usage rate and shoots for high percentage. He doesn't take bad shots. He doesn't take many shots period.

I think people (Imperium in this case) forget how young McGee is and how long it takes for bigs to develop. Does anyone remember how raw McGee was coming in? It takes normal bigs four to six years to develop as a rule.

By his fifth or sixth year, I think McGee will realistically match where Tyson Chandler was in his sixth year. He's not an All Star, but you can contend with a starting center like that.

If anything, McGee is farther along than Chandler was at a similar point in each of their careers.

Here's each from their 23 year old season: http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1∑=0&p1=mcgeeja01&y1=2011&p2=chandty01&y2=2006

I think it's fair to say that, at a similar point in each of their careers--their 24 year old seasons--Chandler was a better rebounder, but McGee was a more efficient and productive scorer and better shot blocker. Tyson Chandler also had two years more NBA experience at this point, and was playing with Chris Paul on a playoff team.

McGee will be fine. He's the least of our troubles.

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Dion Waiters...

If we can somehow acquire a 2nd 1st round pick in the 15-20 range, and Waiters is still on the board (assuming we take a big with our other selection), I wouldn't mind him playing in DC. Dude is a menace on the defensive end of the floor and can play both the 1 and 2. He's an absolute upgrade over Crawford and would be an asset to this team going forward.

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Exactly Destino. McGee is our second best player and probably our best defender by a large margin. There are many teams starting worse at the pivot than McGee. And you're right, he typically is an efficient offensive player because he has a tiny usage rate and shoots for high percentage. He doesn't take bad shots. He doesn't take many shots period.

I think people (Imperium in this case) forget how young McGee is and how long it takes for bigs to develop. Does anyone remember how raw McGee was coming in? It takes normal bigs four to six years to develop as a rule.

By his fifth or sixth year, I think McGee will realistically match where Tyson Chandler was in his sixth year. He's not an All Star, but you can contend with a starting center like that.

If anything, McGee is farther along than Chandler was at a similar point in each of their careers.

Here's each from their 23 year old season: http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1∑=0&p1=mcgeeja01&y1=2011&p2=chandty01&y2=2006

I think it's fair to say that, at a similar point in each of their careers--their 24 year old seasons--Chandler was a better rebounder, but McGee was a more efficient and productive scorer and better shot blocker. Tyson Chandler also had two years more NBA experience at this point, and was playing with Chris Paul on a playoff team.

McGee will be fine. He's the least of our troubles.

McGee doesn't take bad shots? :ols:

McGee's contract situation puts him at the top of our concerns because we have to weigh his immense potential versus the likelihood of him ever reaching that potential. Then we have to decide whats the cutoff of what we're willing to pay to keep him. All it takes is one dumb gm (and in the NBA there are many) to offer him a big deal and then we would have a major decision. As I said before, I would like to keep him, but I wouldn't even give him DeAndre Jordan money at this point.

Edited by StillUnknown
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McGee doesn't take bad shots? :ols:

McGee's contract situation puts him at the top of our concerns because we have to weigh his immense potential versus the likelihood of him ever reaching that potential. Then we have to decide whats the cutoff of what we're willing to pay to keep him. All it takes is one dumb gm (and in the NBA there are many) to offer him a big deal and then we would have a major decision. As I said before, I would like to keep him, but I wouldn't even give him DeAndre Jordan money at this point.

More points, blocks, steals, and rebounds... In less minutes and on a far worse team. McGee will make between Deandre and M Gasol money.

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Mcgee's stats are inflated......he is a momentum killer, I hope the wizards do not sign him and part their ways...hopefully he can blossom with another team. He takes bad shots over and over again and has no basketball iq, as many points he does make he gives them right back by his poor defense and goaltending, plus he rarely blocks out, most of his rebounds come from his athletic ability. I would rather have a consistent center who plays tough physical defense and high iq. I am not a stats guy , I want players that understand the game and will pass the ballMcgee is in his 4 th year and has not learned anything in regards to the game of basketball.

We are the laughing stock of the nba

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8ZtEXuP0Y0

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Exactly Destino. McGee is our second best player and probably our best defender by a large margin. There are many teams starting worse at the pivot than McGee. And you're right, he typically is an efficient offensive player because he has a tiny usage rate and shoots for high percentage. He doesn't take bad shots. He doesn't take many shots period.

So by that logic, Tyson Chandler is an efficient offensive player right now because he has a tiny usage rate and shoots for high percentage. McGee might be a better #5 option than Chandler, but he's still a #5 option on any seriously contending team.

I think people (Imperium in this case) forget how young McGee is and how long it takes for bigs to develop. Does anyone remember how raw McGee was coming in? It takes normal bigs four to six years to develop as a rule.

Okay, take a look at this.

EDIT: The BF CGI script is busted so I can't show you the stats.

Statistically, Javale McGee's production is in line more with players like Kelvin Cato, Bryant Reeves, and Adonal Foyle than Tyson Chandler. Guys who produce like McGee in terms of offense and rebounding through their fourth year rarely get better in either area, and certainly do not become go to scorers, which is what McGee would need to become to be as valuable as Chandler.

By his fifth or sixth year, I think McGee will realistically match where Tyson Chandler was in his sixth year. He's not an All Star, but you can contend with a starting center like that.

Tyson Chandler was a DPOY-caliber center from his last year in Chicago. Are you sure about this?

I think it's fair to say that, at a similar point in each of their careers--their 24 year old seasons--Chandler was a better rebounder, but McGee was a more efficient and productive scorer and better shot blocker. Tyson Chandler also had two years more NBA experience at this point, and was playing with Chris Paul on a playoff team.

Rebounding is hardly close, Chandler at that point was also literally light-years better as a defender (DPOY-caliber player essentially).

McGee may be a better scorer, but the difference between them as scorers in no way compensates for the vast gulf between them in defense and rebounding.

And shotblocking is one of the most overrated aspects of big-man defense, so using that as a defense for McGee doesn't work either.

Expecting that McGee is going to magically blow up in year 5 or 6 (after giving him a DeAndre Jordan-esque contract) is pure wishful thinking.

Edited by The Robert Griffin Experience
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This Javale McGee debate really reminding me of the early Andray Blatche debate. I'm where I was on that one too. I have no problem letting Javale walk. He's an idiot, unfortunately there's no training regiment for idiot, and he'll remain an idiot. You can't win with players like him.

---------- Post added February-12th-2012 at 06:55 PM ----------

And I imagine this McGee debate (starting to form), is going to be uglier and more drawn out than the Blatche debate ever was. McGee makes everyone say WOW! from time to time. Blatche never did that.

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This Javale McGee debate really reminding me of the early Andray Blatche debate. I'm where I was on that one too. I have no problem letting Javale walk. He's an idiot, unfortunately there's no training regiment for idiot, and he'll remain an idiot. You can't win with players like him.

---------- Post added February-12th-2012 at 06:55 PM ----------

And I imagine this McGee debate (starting to form), is going to be uglier and more drawn out than the Blatche debate ever was. McGee makes everyone say WOW! from time to time. Blatche never did that.

This is why I try to divorce myself from his highlight reel plays and pay more attention to the small things that he has to get down if he wants to be successful. Blatche made it easy for everyone to want him out because he just didn't give a damn. I don't get that sense with McGee. I think he cares, but I also think he's absolutely clueless in terms of how he should be improving his game, particularly in defensive situations.

---------- Post added February-12th-2012 at 06:17 PM ----------

Wow, the Palace is empty. Sounds like they're playing in a gym.

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This is why I try to divorce myself from his highlight reel plays and pay more attention to the small things that he has to get down if he wants to be successful. Blatche made it easy for everyone to want him out because he just didn't give a damn. I don't get that sense with McGee. I think he cares, but I also think he's absolutely clueless in terms of how he should be improving his game, particularly in defensive situations.

I think it's a combination of immaturity and stupidity. But I think stupidity is the big one. He's like a QB that can't read defenses. Unfortunately, people can grow up but they don't really get smarter. I mean it should've been a warning sign from the get-go that guy comes from the ULTIMATE basketball family and he still doesn't understand the sport. If he didn't get it before, if he still hasn't gotten it, I'm not sure why anyone thinks he ever will. He's done for me. Like with Blatche, I don't think you can win with players like him. I pray to God that we don't sign him to a huge, long-term contract in the offseason.

---------- Post added February-12th-2012 at 07:28 PM ----------

One year ago:

To me there is one unforgiveable sin in sports: to quit. To give up, to go through the motions, to not give a ****. However you want to phrase it.

My biggest beef with Blatche has been just that. He is a quitter. He has no pride. Too often people look at the player but not the person. You cannot seperate the two. Great athleticism, nice skillset, and even decent numbers don't mean **** if you've got no heart.

Wall is a winner. Why? Because he goes out there night after night for the third worst team in the NBA and gives it his all. Ditto Booker, Seraphin, now Crawford and Hinrich before him. They are hungry, they have pride, they will do anything within their power to not to lose.

What I saw from McGee last night was an absolute disgrace. Worst even than Blatche. TV didn't do it justice. He quit. Flat out quit. It was embarrassing to watch. 20 years I've been watching NBA basketball and that was the most pathetic display of effort I have ever seen. When him and Flip got into I at first thought it Wall because Wall was saying **** to him as well as the walked off for the timeout. Wall is a winner. McGee is not.

You cannot win with people like Blatche and McGee. They don't have the heart to win. They don't have the heart to put in the necessary work to build on their potential. They don't have the heart to play tough against good teams. They don't have the heart to close out important, close games. They. Are. Losers.

So keep drooling over a vertical and a ****ing 8 rebounds a game for a **** team, but be prepared to tell me I was right all along when neither of these bums amounte to **** in the NBA.

Edited by G.A.C.O.L.B.
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People fall in love with players like McGee because they think a magical development fairy bequeaths to dumb players the ability to think, immature players the ability to grow up, and imagine that every long, tall guy with 40'' verts can be "molded" into a superstar. If that were true, we'd have a lot more superstars! When you're looking at a guy and thinking "If only he'll gain weight! If only he'll play tougher! If only he'll learn to box out!" "If only he'll learn how to play pick and roll defense!" If they didn't do it by their rookie year, or at least their 2nd year, they won't do it.

He may appear to be a run of the mill double-doubleish center, but your average playoff starting center can actually play defense - McGee cannot.

Edited by The Robert Griffin Experience
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McGee doesn't take bad shots? :ols:

McGee's contract situation puts him at the top of our concerns because we have to weigh his immense potential versus the likelihood of him ever reaching that potential. Then we have to decide whats the cutoff of what we're willing to pay to keep him. All it takes is one dumb gm (and in the NBA there are many) to offer him a big deal and then we would have a major decision. As I said before, I would like to keep him, but I wouldn't even give him DeAndre Jordan money at this point.

If you want to cherry pick the one or two bad shots he takes a gamen on average... then he does take bad shots. But I thought it was pretty obvious that I meant, by the standards of an NBA player, JaVale doesn't take bad shots. He's a career 52% shooter--he doesn't take bad shots.

I don't think JaVale's contract is that difficult to figure out. We know what we're getting from him more or less. We can expect him to play close to 30 minutes for 80 games a season, give us around 10 & 9 on 51 to 52% shooting and over two blocks a game. That's worth middle of the road veteran starting Center money generally speaking, which is probably what he'll get, just over ten million a year.

---------- Post added February-12th-2012 at 07:57 PM ----------

Here's a wrinkle to the McGee "debate,"

For those who say "let Mcgee walk, he sucks and isn't worth keeping," I feel like you all are missing/ignoring a key point:

Propose a viable solution for our new starting center, beginning next season or STFU!

Who can we get that's better? It's that simple.

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People fall in love with players like McGee because they think a magical development fairy bequeaths to dumb players the ability to think, immature players the ability to grow up, and imagine that every long, tall guy with 40'' verts can be "molded" into a superstar. If that were true, we'd have a lot more superstars! When you're looking at a guy and thinking "If only he'll gain weight! If only he'll play tougher! If only he'll learn to box out!" If they didn't do it by their rookie year, or at least their 2nd year, they won't do it.

I said the same about Blatche for years. The same response for years: "THIS year is gonna be his year. THIS year he's FINALLY gonna grow up and put together." Meanwhile he's been in the league five, six, seven years. **** ain't happening. He is who he is. And it's about that time to say the same of McGee. I'm there. You're there. Others need to join.

I don't know why I haven't noticed you or your posts before (have you been posting in this thread for long?) You're my guy though.

Edited by G.A.C.O.L.B.
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