The Official Washington Basketball Thread: Wizards, Mystics etc

[Mr. Grundle]

Ted and Ernie have made it no secret about their rebuilding plan, which was to build around Wall a team that is tougher, plays better defense, and can get out and run with John Wall. The draft picks we have made fit that plan - Seraphin, Booker, Singleton, Vesely. Yes we needed to get younger, more athletic, and playing better D. The problem with this strategy is offensively we picked guys who can pretty much only score by dunking the basketball. Even the best running teams in the NBA only score about 16-18 points a game via the fast-break. The other 85% of your scoring needs to come from guys who can actually shoot the basketball into the hoop. For the front office to assume that that Nick Young, Andray Blatche, and Jordan Crawford would be able to handle the offensive load in that regard shows their true dementia.

Regardless of whether Ernie was just following Ted's plan or not, he needs to be fired for assembling this monstrosity.

[StillUnknown]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/wizards/wizards-woes-stem-from-from-lack-of-talent-and-losing-culture-executives-say/2012/01/09/gIQAFlsjmP_story.html

“I think most of the time, if you were to look at their matchups, as they go into a game, position by position, they are probably going to lose out almost every matchup,” said one Eastern Conference scout, who like other scouts and executives spoke on condition of anonymity because he wasn’t at liberty to speak on behalf of his organization.

“If you were to go throughout the league and say Washington would win a position matchup, I don’t know what team that would be. I don’t know a team that would give up their starting five for Washington’s.”

The Eastern Conference scout said even if the Wizards were stockpiled with young lottery talent, the team would experience some growing pains. “It takes a while. Look at Minnesota. All they have are lottery picks all over their roster and they are just now starting to reap some of the benefits. So it is a process. But should [Washington] be 0-8 and losing by [21] to Minnesota? No. There’s still some issues there.”

The Eastern Conference assistant general manager said the Wizards’ rough start to the season shouldn’t come as a surprise. “It was dead before it started,” he said.

[SkinInsite]

19 63 .232

26 56 .317

23 59 .280

The past three year for the Bullets, expect more of the same for at least two more years.

[Heisenberg]

Think the Idea is more of the fast paced Suns team. John Wall being the pass first PG like Steve Nash and build everything else out around him.

A big difference between Wall and Nash - Nash can shoot.

[pjfootballer]

A big difference between Wall and Nash - Nash can shoot.

And the rest of the Suns team for that matter. We don't have one player, not one player that scares anyone outside of 10 feet. Pathetic shooting team.

[Darrell Green Fan]

The sad part is Wilbon, who is pretty plugged into the NBA, says players ask him all the time "wtf is up in Washington?". This isn't Minnesota or Sacramento. Players actually like Washington and would be interested in playing here. But Ernie has somehow screwed up so badly there isn't any way out of it for the forseable future.

His draft and trade record is worse than Ceratto. Yet he is sitll employed. That is pathetic.

[shuler74]

D Rose has a way better cast than the clowns we have in DC......

[SkinInsite]

You just gotta get lucky and land a transcendent player. As a Bulls fan who suffered through the post Jordan debacle, it took over a decade to get Rose.

Still up for debate if Wall is that player.

[RonArtest15]

You just gotta get lucky and land a transcendent player. As a Bulls fan who suffered through the post Jordan debacle, it took over a decade to get Rose.

Still up for debate if Wall is that player.

To be fair, guys like Williams, Rose, CP3, Rondo, etc. ALL had better teams around them when they first came into the NBA. Wall was thrust into a leadership role too soon. He was amazing last year, but it's glaringly obvious that he would have benefitted from having a veteran PG as a mentor.

All of this needs to fall on EG. Seriously. In thinking about it over the past couple of days, it's a shame in how he's formed this roster.

As far as Flip. The guys have tuned him out. That's his M.O. in EVERY stop he's made in the NBA. Towards the end of his time, players stop responding to his "teaching." This is no different.

I love the Wizards, but honestly...I'm all for them losing every game from here on out until there is a major shake-up. I'm not going to be happy if Flip trots Shard out there for ANY PT tonight (he should be cut). It's a slap in the face, and I know he'll do it. He's got no backbone. Blatche should have been gone after he raised the same stink last year (refusing to play). It's a losing culture here in DC and the roster is filled with, well, LOSERS. I hope the FO realizes what they have with Wall. All it will be is memories when he choses to go elsewhere in a few years via Free agency. Honestly, I wouldn't blame him one bit.

[@DCGoldPants]

Not that agents should hire and fire coaches...but...

Flip Saunders Should Be Fired As Wizards Coach, According To Several Agents

Though the Washington Wizards reportedly do not intend to fire coach Flip Saunders, some NBA player agents believe they should, reports Craig Stouffer of the Washington Examiner. During the Wizards' 92-73 loss to the Minnesota Timberwolves on Sunday, one agent texted Stouffer to say, "these guys need a new voice." Another said "looks bad. Time for Flip to go.

At 0-8, the Wizards are the league's only winless team remaining; every other squad has at least two victories. But losing is only part of Washington's problem: its players haven't improved either, a possible sign of poor leadership.

"John Wall doesn't seem to be showing improvement and signs of reaching his potential," a third agent told Stouffer, "and that's in part on the coach."

Saunders' record with Washington stands at 49-123 (.285), the worst in franchise history among coaches who lasted more than one season. Stouffer writes the Wizards' logic in keeping Saunders might be financial: Washington would owe Saunders the balance of this season's salary, plus his salary from 2012/13, in addition to what it would pay Saunders' replacement.

[SkinInsite]

To be fair, guys like Williams, Rose, CP3, Rondo, etc. ALL had better teams around them when they first came into the NBA. Wall was thrust into a leadership role too soon. He was amazing last year, but it's glaringly obvious that he would have benefitted from having a veteran PG as a mentor.

All of this needs to fall on EG. Seriously. In thinking about it over the past couple of days, it's a shame in how he's formed this roster.

As far as Flip. The guys have tuned him out. That's his M.O. in EVERY stop he's made in the NBA. Towards the end of his time, players stop responding to his "teaching." This is no different.

I love the Wizards, but honestly...I'm all for them losing every game from here on out until there is a major shake-up. I'm not going to be happy if Flip trots Shard out there for ANY PT tonight (he should be cut). It's a slap in the face, and I know he'll do it. He's got no backbone. Blatche should have been gone after he raised the same stink last year (refusing to play). It's a losing culture here in DC and the roster is filled with, well, LOSERS. I hope the FO realizes what they have with Wall. All it will be is memories when he choses to go elsewhere in a few years via Free agency. Honestly, I wouldn't blame him one bit.

Chicago blew up the team after drafting Rose. Only Noah and Deng remained from the 2008 team.

Sure you want good support cast for your superstars but Wall has to do more heavy lifting. Wall should have gotten stronger and learn how to finish at the rim. It wouldn't matter if he can't shoot given how fast he is.

[Darrell Green Fan]

You just gotta get lucky and land a transcendent player. As a Bulls fan who suffered through the post Jordan debacle, it took over a decade to get Rose.

Still up for debate if Wall is that player.

Cry me a river. You had a dynasty in the 90's. Then after a few down years you had another playoff team with Heinrick etc. Then you got Rose and now you're back to contending.

We haven't contended since gas was .70 a gallon.

[DjTj]

Cry me a river. You had a dynasty in the 90's. Then after a few down years you had another playoff team with Heinrick etc. Then you got Rose and now you're back to contending.

We haven't contended since gas was .70 a gallon.

Actually, the Wizards beat the Bulls playoff team with Hinrich etc. That was our only playoff series win in like 30 years or something.

All this woe-is-me Wizards are the worst ever whining is this thread is ridiculous. We are very bad now. But it's not because something is fundamentally wrong with this franchise or even with EG. Sure, it's probably time to hire a new GM and a new coach, but none of that is really going to fix the team right now. Our situation right now ties directly into Gilbert's knees and Gilbert's guns. Nobody could have planned for all of that. Agent Zero giveth and Agent Zero taketh away. We're rebuilding now, and we're going to suck for a while. And there's just not that much we can do about it.

I think our energy would be better spent in trying to get Ted to change the name back to Bullets.

[Sticksboi05]

You just gotta get lucky and land a transcendent player. As a Bulls fan who suffered through the post Jordan debacle, it took over a decade to get Rose.

Still up for debate if Wall is that player.

Are you kidding me? You won 6 championships in 8 years. You have ZERO room to complain about anything.

[Destino]

The supporting cast argument works to explain Walls assist numbers and win/loss record. It does not explain everything else.

.712 FT% - 24th (out of 27 point guards)

.351 FG% - 24th (of 27)

I can't give you a 3 point shot comparison because he's only attempt 3 and he's missed all of them.

Stars on bad teams still look like stars.

[Darrell Green Fan]

Actually, the Wizards beat the Bulls playoff team with Hinrich etc. That was our only playoff series win in like 30 years or something.

All this woe-is-me Wizards are the worst ever whining is this thread is ridiculous. We are very bad now. But it's not because something is fundamentally wrong with this franchise or even with EG. Sure, it's probably time to hire a new GM and a new coach, but none of that is really going to fix the team right now. Our situation right now ties directly into Gilbert's knees and Gilbert's guns. Nobody could have planned for all of that. Agent Zero giveth and Agent Zero taketh away. We're rebuilding now, and we're going to suck for a while. And there's just not that much we can do about it.

I think our energy would be better spent in trying to get Ted to change the name back to Bullets.

I remember the Bulls series very well. It was the one highlight we've had inbetween 3 decades of 22-60 seasons. I'd say we've already "sucked for a while" wouldn't you? So why would you be surprised at all the whinning? If ever a fanbase had a reason to whine it's this one.

[RonArtest15]

Chicago blew up the team after drafting Rose. Only Noah and Deng remained from the 2008 team.

Sure you want good support cast for your superstars but Wall has to do more heavy lifting. Wall should have gotten stronger and learn how to finish at the rim. It wouldn't matter if he can't shoot given how fast he is.

Rose has NEVER played for a below .500 team in the NBA. Think about it. Bulls had an actual plan, and it worked.

The Wizards problems go well beyond Wall getting stronger and just finishing at the rim. The young man can only do so much. It's coaching and the culture around the team. It's not conducive to breeding any sort of winning with the current roster. The FO needs to step back and re-evaluate how they're doing things. Keeping Flip, at the detriment of your team, JUST to save 7 million is stupid. This team is going no where with the leadership in place and something needs to change ASAP.

Edited January 10, 2012 by RonArtest15

[Rocky21]

All this woe-is-me Wizards are the worst ever whining is this thread is ridiculous. We are very bad now. But it's not because something is fundamentally wrong with this franchise or even with EG. Sure, it's probably time to hire a new GM and a new coach, but none of that is really going to fix the team right now. Our situation right now ties directly into Gilbert's knees and Gilbert's guns. Nobody could have planned for all of that. Agent Zero giveth and Agent Zero taketh away. We're rebuilding now, and we're going to suck for a while. And there's just not that much we can do about it.

I think our energy would be better spent in trying to get Ted to change the name back to Bullets.

Damn man we are the only winless team in the NBA right now and you dont think we have the right to boo hoo a little about it? I don't think we are the worst team ever but the very fact that we can't do anything about it is why folks are ****ing.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

The Wizards problems go well beyond Wall getting stronger and just finishing at the rim. The young man can only do so much. It's coaching and the culture around the team.

I like Wall but people seem to make excuses for the franchise player.

We all know Wall's surrounding cast is subpar but do you think the Wiz would be 0-8 with a second year Gilbert Arenas/Chris Paul/Derrick Rose at pg?

Edited January 10, 2012 by BRAVEONAWARPATH

[DjTj]

I remember the Bulls series very well. It was the one highlight we've had inbetween 3 decades of 22-60 seasons. I'd say we've already "sucked for a while" wouldn't you? So why would you be surprised at all the whinning? If ever a fanbase had a reason to whine it's this one.

Damn man we are the only winless team in the NBA right now and you dont think we have the right to boo hoo a little about it? I don't think we are the worst team ever but the very fact that we can't do anything about it is why folks are ****ing.

I'm not surprised by the whining, but I do think all the calls for EG's head and the criticism of Leonsis misses the point. There's basically nothing that could be done (outside of an even stupider reach for a free agent that would have put us in an even worse position for the future) to make us much better this year.

We suck. It's fine to whine about it. But I guess all I'm saying is that I don't really expect firing EG or firing Flip to make us any better this year.

[TeddyKGB]

I'm not surprised by the whining, but I do think all the calls for EG's head and the criticism of Leonsis misses the point. There's basically nothing that could be done (outside of an even stupider reach for a free agent that would have put us in an even worse position for the future) to make us much better this year.

We suck. It's fine to whine about it. But I guess all I'm saying is that I don't really expect firing EG or firing Flip to make us any better this year.

I know many other posters see it another way - I however completely agree with you. People completely underestimate the damage that the Gilbert fiasco and unraveling of the "little 3" did to this team. This is going to be a long process, not this year, not even next year or the year after. Overall I trust in Teddy L. and realize that this Rome isn't going to be built in a day.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

I know many other posters see it another way - I however completely agree with you. People completely underestimate the damage that the Gilbert fiasco and unraveling of the "little 3" did to this team.

What does the Gilbert fiasco have to with this situation?

Grunfeld selected these players.......

Players who seem to lack a critical skill....the ability to shoot.

Edited January 10, 2012 by BRAVEONAWARPATH

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

Rose has NEVER played for a below .500 team in the NBA. Think about it. Bulls had an actual plan, and it worked.

Bulls were a borderline playoff team with a 1% chance of winning the draft lottery when they got Rose. So yeah, that's why.

[DjTj]

What does the Gilbert fiasco have to with this situation?

Grunfeld selected these players.......

He selected these players to play on a team with Gilbert Arenas, Antawn Jamison, and Caron Butler.

When Gilbert figuratively shot the team in the foot, we had to start all over. We had a team built to support the "big three," and now our team is completely different. Half of our moves have been done to acquire expiring contracts and clear cap room, rather than to pick up the best players. This is not a team designed to win now. It is a team designed to have the cap space available to acquire a big free agent in the next two years. That is our reality, created by the Gilbert fiasco.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

He selected these players to play on a team with Gilbert Arenas, Antawn Jamison, and Caron Butler.

When Gilbert figuratively shot the team in the foot, we had to start all over. We had a team built to support the "big three," and now our team is completely different. Half of our moves have been done to acquire expiring contracts and clear cap room, rather than to pick up the best players. This is not a team designed to win now. It is a team designed to have the cap space available to acquire a big free agent in the next two years. That is our reality, created by the Gilbert fiasco.

Fair enough.