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The Official Washington Wizards Thread: The JOHN WALL ERA


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5 hours ago, bearrock said:

Hmmm....  I wonder if it is related to this news....

 

https://twitter.com/Sam_Vecenie/status/1146068851227938816?s=20

 

Apparently, I have no idea how to embed a tweet.  Wiz applying for injured player designation for Wall, which would mean he won't be able to play at all this year and team gets one year cap room of 9 mil.

 

Lol don't feel bad, apparently something changed and we didn't get the memo because I was trying to figure out why I couldn't embed tweets anymore. All you have to do is hit the little share icon and hit "copy link to tweet" then paste it here and it should work. 

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7 hours ago, bearrock said:

Hmmm....  I wonder if it is related to this news....

 

https://twitter.com/Sam_Vecenie/status/1146068851227938816?s=20

 

Apparently, I have no idea how to embed a tweet.  Wiz applying for injured player designation for Wall, which would mean he won't be able to play at all this year and team gets one year cap room of 9 mil.

 

For those wanting an unmistakable sign that the FO is tanking this season, this is it.

 

We don't care to preserve Wall's eligibility for a potential 8 seed, even though it'd be over a calendar year from his injury (and I think his surgery, but I'm not sure).

 

Ergo we have no intentions or expectations of making the playoffs.

 

This year is going to be mainly about load managing Beal and pitching him on our future.  That and playing and developing our young guys, to sort out what we have with them.

 

I think an interesting side plot will also be the rehabilitation of IT.  I would love to see him recapture some of his old form.  He's a good guy and had really terrible luck.  If the world was fair, he'd get right and make himself some money this year.  For our purposes it'd be nice if he got healthy again and played well enough to stick around as a third guard.  He was one of the best six mans in the NBA in Sacramento and Phoenix, before he got the starting job in Boston and blew up.  He was a better version of Lou Williams.

 

Re: Cousins, I'd be interested in signing him for some or all of that MLE money if he'd do it.  He's probably going to get the same offer from a team who will actually be good though.  If not, he's a waaaaaay better player than a team like us could normally get for the MLE.

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I see no upside to signing Cousins unless it’s a multi year deal, which I think is a bad idea. I think there are too many risk factors with him and signing him to a one year contract is the ideal move. But a one year deal, the chances of him weakening our tank are too high and the upside too low since he will look to bolt for greener pastures. 

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2 hours ago, No Excuses said:

I see no upside to signing Cousins unless it’s a multi year deal, which I think is a bad idea. I think there are too many risk factors with him and signing him to a one year contract is the ideal move. But a one year deal, the chances of him weakening our tank are too high and the upside too low since he will look to bolt for greener pastures. 

 

I don't know, that might be over-thinking it.  I think we should be using a "by hook or by crook" approach to getting good players on the roster.  That would include Cousins on a one year MLE deal for me.

 

Worst case scenario: you waste the MLE on him and he moves on next season instead of getting a different veteran who might have been a keeper.

Best case scenario: he proves to be a great fit and we got a guy in the door who is way better than a typical MLE signing.  And who might even be motivated to stick around.

 

I don't think the downside is very high.  First, Cousins hasn't been the kind of player to lift teams out of the lottery in the past.  Second, I'm not sold on the wisdom/value of completely bottoming out in lieu of the Pelicans, Lakers, and Grizzlies having franchise altering offseasons despite winning more games than we did.

 

Nor do I think picking at the very top of the lottery is the only (or even best) path to contention given the fact the Raptors just won a championship without a lottery pick on their roster.

 

I don't like wasting a free agency class either.  Get as many good players as you can every offseason and you might get good faster than expected.

 

The only real downside to the move IMO is if it were to stunt a young player's development.  Wagner I guess.  But that wouldn't stop me from making the move.

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2 hours ago, No Excuses said:

I see no upside to signing Cousins unless it’s a multi year deal, which I think is a bad idea. I think there are too many risk factors with him and signing him to a one year contract is the ideal move. But a one year deal, the chances of him weakening our tank are too high and the upside too low since he will look to bolt for greener pastures. 

 

Multi year deal is risky but if he plays like a beast maybe we could trade him for a pick.  Doubtful that happens though, but thats the only upside I'd see to bringing him in.

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Did you guys realize Jan Vesely ended up being the best center in Euroleague and will probably end up winning multiple MVPs?  He shoots almost 80% from the FT line now.

 

We have a particularly bad track record of developing and properly utilizing European players.

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Summer league starts tomorrow. First game is on espn at 10 since we're playing Zion

 

On Cousins, signing him kinda goes against what they've been trying to do this upcoming season. We already have 3 centers that cant play together. One of which will play only in emergencies, one they prefer not to play at all and one they really want to develop. Bryant should be playing 30+ minutes a game if he can do so without fouling. 

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7 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

Did you guys realize Jan Vesely ended up being the best center in Euroleague and will probably end up winning multiple MVPs?  He shoots almost 80% from the FT line now.

 

We have a particularly bad track record of developing and properly utilizing European players.

 

I dont think i had ever been so sure a player would bust as much as I was with Vesely when we drafted him

 

When i used to go to games, i would always noticed how relaxed Vesely looked in warmups. He would routinely make 3pt shots, looked good working through post moves, actually showed some ability to move while dribbling. Then it went to **** when it mattered.

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I would much rather play Cousins 20-22 mpg and have Bryant play the balance of center minutes plus experiment with a twin towers line up from time to time than play any of our forwards at the 5 again.

 

Wagner is the potential odd man out.  He's not promising enough to pass on a Cousins flyer though IMO.  Also not sure he's ready to play significant minutes either.  Plus I think he might be a face up 4.

2 minutes ago, StillUnknown said:

 

I dont think i had ever been so sure a player would bust as much as I was with Vesely when we drafted him

 

When i used to go to games, i would always noticed how relaxed Vesely looked in warmups. He would routinely make 3pt shots, looked good working through post moves, actually showed some ability to move while dribbling. Then it went to **** when it mattered.

 

I don't think he would have busted if he'd been drafted by a better team.  Players tend to do better after they leave us.

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25 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

I don't like wasting a free agency class either.  Get as many good players as you can every offseason and you might get good faster than expected.

 

We either have to commit resources to developing young players with potential or to continue seeing if we can rehab veterans with potential to regain form/get better. 

 

This team is not not remotely functional enough to accomplish both at the same time. 

 

I think Cousins is a fine project for a team stuck in the 35-45 wins category who thinks he might elevate them into potentially top 3-4 seed status. He’s an awful player to bring into a roster full of young players who are going to suck most nights and get blown out routinely. 

24 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

Multi year deal is risky but if he plays like a beast maybe we could trade him for a pick.  Doubtful that happens though, but thats the only upside I'd see to bringing him in.

 

If this team was angling to contend when Wall returned, I would be on board with signing cousins on a 3 year MLE deal, provided Cousins isn’t looking for a 1yr prove it-and then cash in contract again. He’s affordable once Mahinmi and Howard exit the team next year. 

 

But it’s not really clear where this FO is taking the roster. Most of their moves this offseason seem to indicate that this is a multi year rebuilding project.

Edited by No Excuses
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21 minutes ago, StillUnknown said:

 

I dont think i had ever been so sure a player would bust as much as I was with Vesely when we drafted him

 

When i used to go to games, i would always noticed how relaxed Vesely looked in warmups. He would routinely make 3pt shots, looked good working through post moves, actually showed some ability to move while dribbling. Then it went to **** when it mattered.

 

I used to do the same - he had talent....I don't think we worked hard enough to bring it out of him. He was a young kid and we let him rot on the bench without any development. A rim rocking 7 footer that can play good defense is a valuable commodity on a team like the Spurs

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3 hours ago, No Excuses said:

I see no upside to signing Cousins unless it’s a multi year deal, which I think is a bad idea. I think there are too many risk factors with him and signing him to a one year contract is the ideal move. But a one year deal, the chances of him weakening our tank are too high and the upside too low since he will look to bolt for greener pastures. 

 

Agreed. They preached culture the past few weeks. Wouldn't feel like a culture singing. Not saying Cousins is going to bring guns into the locker room or **** in shoes. But this is a 20-25 win team probably even with Beal playing a zillion min and scoring 40 a night. 

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1 hour ago, No Excuses said:

We either have to commit resources to developing young players with potential or to continue seeing if we can rehab veterans with potential to regain form/get better. 

 

This team is not not remotely functional enough to accomplish both at the same time. 

 

I think Cousins is a fine project for a team stuck in the 35-45 wins category who thinks he might elevate them into potentially top 3-4 seed status. He’s an awful player to bring into a roster full of young players who are going to suck most nights and get blown out routinely. 

 

I don't agree it's a flat one or the other situation.  You only start with two draft picks a year, and you can only harbor so many rookie deals on your roster and field a competitive team anyway.  To get good you have to get good players from multiple sources and a good team builder isn't going to be constructing the roster according to absolutes.  See good player, get good player is likely a safe approach.

 

Cousins is a good player, who might be unexpectedly available for a low dollar amount because of his injury history and the vagaries of the free agent market.  Right now we don't have much that's fixed and we need to be vacuuming up as much talent as we can, by drafting, by trading, and by using the free agent market.  You could make a good argument that there is value in avoiding redundancy by not spending all your resources on one position or one type of player.  Or make a good argument against Cousins that we have better options available to us with the MLE.  But not that we can't simultaneously get value from a vet reclamation project on the MLE at the same time as developing our rookie contracts.

 

Let's define what finite resources it would take to get and rehabilitate Cousins:

1 - all or part of the MLE.

2 - nightly minutes

 

I'm skeptical that we could get a better player than Cousins for the MLE.  I can't think of one, but I can accept an argument that we should be spending the MLE on a different position like SF or PF to create better roster balance.  But that SF or PF would still have to be good enough to outweigh the opportunity cost of passing on a superior player at C.

 

As for #2, you have to look at the specific roster make up to determine if this is an issue.  In our case, we only have one rotation-worthy center on the roster right now.  We're spending so much money on the position, but have very little to show for it.  Cousins on a bargain deal could really help with that.  Also Thomas Bryant only averaged 20 MPG last season.  Making a big jump into 36 MPG + territory because we don't have another center that's playable feels like a bad idea.  Playing forwards at center like we did with Keef and Jeff Green is an abdication.  So is playing Mahinmi.  Dwight is finished, he's holding us up for five million before retiring, presumably.  That leaves Moritz Wagner as the only other seven footer on the roster, but he's got almost no NBA experience.  I'm not sure he's capable of spelling Bryant for an entire season.  I'm also not sure he's a center, as the word on him coming out of Michigan was that he's a face up/stretch four, which brings us back to the problem of abandoning rebounding and rim protection by playing a forward at the five.

 

I also think Thomas Bryant and Cousins could play with each other for stretches because they can both shoot.

 

If we were talking about spending big money on Cousins, then I would probably object on the grounds he'd take up too many resources.  But on a cheap deal, and with our lack of fixed talent and long term commitment at most positions on the roster, particularly at center, I don't agree that signing Cousins has much downside.

 

I suspect it's going to be a moot point though, because we don't really make sense for Cousins.  His priorities are naturally to either make as much money as he can, or find a team with whom to ring chase.

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I don't think getting Cousins for a one-year prove it contract makes sense. After all, if there is no Wall, they won't be able to be able to determine if he is a fit. How he plays with the point guard would be the biggest factor, wouldn't it?

 

If you think he is a player you want and you can get him at the right price for a few years then getting him now makes sense.

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1 hour ago, Burgold said:

I don't think getting Cousins for a one-year prove it contract makes sense. After all, if there is no Wall, they won't be able to be able to determine if he is a fit. How he plays with the point guard would be the biggest factor, wouldn't it?

 

If you think he is a player you want and you can get him at the right price for a few years then getting him now makes sense.

 

I wasn't envisioning Cousins as an offensive foundation piece.  That feels too optimistic given his injury history.  I was thinking of him as a flyer who'd primarily be expected to score around the basket, rebound, and rim protect.  Probably as a six man.  His fit with the point guards wouldn't really be an issue, you wouldn't be counting on his scoring.  He does have a perimeter game too.  He can create his own looks if need be.

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Just now, CRobi21 said:

Wish it was Mahinmi, but okay Shep!

 

Is it even financially possible for Mahinmi to be traded?

 

I doubt it. I'm to the point of just wanting to ride out his last year and get his deal off the books completely. I dont want to take on salary that extends beyond this season

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