The Official Washington Basketball Thread: Wizards, Mystics etc

[MattFancy]

Really liked what the Wiz did last night. Should be a fun team to watch next year (if there is a next year). I think the Singleton pick was a steal!

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

I know we're not supposed to quote pics, but that is one heck of an Ellis Island picture. Doesn't he look like the classic immigrant just beng processed as he enters the country in the 1920's?

[lovetoaster]

I think the Singleton pick was a steal!

Exactly. For those that don't like this draft, I think getting Singleton where we did alone makes this a good draft. I am fine with the Vesely pick, there were other guys that I wanted more, but they got picked before us. It happens. From what I have heard, the demands from some teams to move up were absurd, so I am perfectly fine with us staying put and taking BPA.

As for Mack, he was one of a handful of guys that I would have been considering there, so I am fine with it. As I believe GACOLB said, for the most part, the second round is a crapshoot, so I am not going to get worked up either way. At least we did not botch the second round like the Lakers did. Taking a guy that had 0.7 PPG in the D League last year? I don't think using the pick on him was necessary. Or the one they used on Ater Majok. Goudelock was a nice pick for them though. I know they really wanted him.

Anyways, I give the Wiz a solid B at worst on this draft. BPA with a lot of upside and at a position of need (Vesely), a steal (Singleton) and a solid player that could get early minutes (Mack). I'll take it.

[pjfootballer]

They got 3 solid picks out of a laughable draft with a franchise that is in a laughable state.

Call me when the next Lebron/Kobe/Jordan is manufactured out of this draft. Who would you have chosen instead?

You don't fix AWFULL overnight. Yes, we are awfull.

This right here. I would have loved to have Kanter over Vesely, but I really liked the Singleton and Mack picks. Combine them with the young talent we have, I think we'll improve to close to 30 wins next year. We need a new coach to coach the young talent. Skip has to go. And we still have a couple of solid veterans to help the youngsters out.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

When asked about being the "European Blake Griffin", he replied, "Blake Griffin is the American Jan Vesley"

:notworthy

[Wrong Direction]

For everyone down on the Vesely pick and this draft class in general I challenge you with this: what would you have done instead?

With the obvious caveat that I don't know if the rumors were actually true...

I'd absolutely have packaged #6 and McGee for Kanter. Teams fall in love with Javale McGee types all the time. Tyrus Thomas, just about anyone recently picked from Syracuse, etc. They never become major contributors because long + athletic doesn't make up for poor awareness and skill. Maybe Jan isn't another one of those guys, but I seriously wonder. I'd be a little less concerned if Flip Saunders weren't steering the ship. Give me a coach who accepts nothing less than high effort and good defense - so you can actually squeeze that upside from our young athletes - and I'd feel better.

I do love the Singleton pick. He and Wall give us length and athleticism to guard anyone on the perimeter. Throw in Booker and we have the makings of a very solid defensive team. Unfortunately, bums like Blatche and Young will still get a lot of minutes, and McGee is really only passable (not excellent) on one end of the floor.

[CrypticVillain]

That quote about Blake Griffin was too funny. Edited June 24, 2011 by MLSKINS

[lovetoaster]

With the obvious caveat that I don't know if the rumors were actually true...

I'd absolutely have packaged #6 and McGee for Kanter. Teams fall in love with Javale McGee types all the time. Tyrus Thomas, just about anyone recently picked from Syracuse, etc. They never become major contributors because long + athletic doesn't make up for poor awareness and skill. Maybe Jan isn't another one of those guys, but I seriously wonder.

Very few people, if anyone, knows for sure about what Vesely will be like in the NBA. But I don't understand why anybody seems certain that Kanter is any more of a sure thing either. We have a lot more relevant tape on Vesely than we do on Kanter. To me, taking Kanter, especially with what it would have taken to trade up to get him, would have been probably a bigger risk than staying put and taking Vesely. I know that he was in the U.S. all of the past year and practicing with UK, but playing in practice and in games is completely different. We all saw him in the Hoops Summit game and he was great, but he was also underwhelming at times in high school against much smaller players and significantly inferior talent.

Vesely certainly is not a sure thing, but neither is Kanter. All things considered, I would have kept my players and picks and did exactly what they did.

Edited June 24, 2011 by lovetoaster

[Thinking Skins]

The one thing about Vesley that gives me hope is that he's 6'11 and that means that if he does suck, we'll probably be able to trade him for something good the same way we did Kwame. And this may put us in position for a good pick next year in a draft which is loaded with talent.

And all things considered, getting Singleton at 6 and Vesley at 18 isn't too bad of a draft.

[StillUnknown]

Vesely certainly is not a sure thing, but neither is Kanter. All things considered, I would have kept my players and picks and did exactly what they did.

after thinking more on it, thats about the same conclusion I ended up with as well. If Minny wanted 6,18, & next years first, we did right to stay where we were.

Still not crazy about Vesley skillset, but he seems easy to root for at least. Singleton falling 18 is a steal, very glad to have his defense on this team. 2nd rounders are shot in the dark so i'm not really judging Mack

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

Opposition to the Vesely pick seems to come in two forms. The first is that the Wizards should have instead traded up to land Derrick Williams or Enes Kanter. I sympathize with this, but it seemed like it was much more difficult in practice to do. Ted Leonsis, in an interview on"Overtime" with Bill Rohland and Danny Rouhier on 106.7 The Fan, said the asking price of teams ahead of the Wizards was staggering.

We tried to trade up, but the price was really high," he said. "Some people wanted No. 6, No. 18 and our No. 1 pick next year. So we thought: let's use all three of those picks."

If true, that's way too high a price to pay even for Williams, who you all know I like. Even 6 + 18 seems a bit high for Kanter, who is much more of an unknown than Vesely (though he may fit into a supposed area of weakness better). It seems like that was just not a good option.

The second potential issue with Vesely is whether he can learn the skills he needs to be successful in the league. We all know about his shooting issues, his putrid free-throw shooting and his struggles with hanging onto the ball. Those are serious issues, and they have me concerned. Vesely himself acknowledged those problems as ones he needed to fix, and said his first goal is to work on his free throws. So at least he knows the problem is there.

"My shot, you know. I have to work on that, and of course to be more strong," he said, later joking that "I'm comfortable [shooting], but it goes out."

But there are some positives Vesely brings too. The Wizards love his athleticism, and it is legitimate at his size. They also, I believe, like his court sense and the way he cuts into open space and finishes on offensive rebounds. They are projecting him, I believe, to be someone who doesn't need the ball to score his points, and I think he can do that. I don't think they are as concerned about whether he can take a guy one-on-one and score on him. That's not going to be his role on this future team, so it really doesn't matter much.

The bottom line with Vesely, though, is this: he's not like most Europeans. Whereas Kanter hasn't played in a year and Valanciunas and Biyombo play limited minutes for their club teams, Vesely was a main player on one of the best teams in Europe in Partizan. He's tough, he wins and he plays big in big spots, which the Wizards witnessed when he scored 18 points in the Serbian League title game. He's not a star in Europe, but he's a key role player and a big part of their team. He's also kind of ****y, and he won't back down from anything or anyone. The Wizards, I believe, feel that they need that attitude more than they need his skills. Or, they think the skills will come around to match the attitude.

http://www.bulletsforever.com/2011/6/24/2241328/nba-draft-grades-washington-wizards#storyjump

[Going Commando]

This right here. I would have loved to have Kanter over Vesely, but I really liked the Singleton and Mack picks. Combine them with the young talent we have, I think we'll improve to close to 30 wins next year. We need a new coach to coach the young talent. Skip has to go. And we still have a couple of solid veterans to help the youngsters out.

I think we'll go over 30 if there is a full season. I'm thinking somewhere from 33-36 wins--almost good enough for the 8 seed in the East LOL!

I'm actually hoping there isn't a season next year because I think it means we'll get a higher lottery pick than we would otherwise. I want a top 6 pick again in 2012.

[StillUnknown]

I think we'll go over 30 if there is a full season. I'm thinking somewhere from 33-36 wins--almost good enough for the 8 seed in the East LOL!

I'm actually hoping there isn't a season next year because I think it means we'll get a higher lottery pick than we would otherwise. I want a top 6 pick again in 2012.

I too am fully rooting for a full season lockout

Edited June 24, 2011 by StillUnknown

[No Excuses]

I don't want a lockout. This team will get another top 10 pick in a loaded draft next year. The only way we pick outside of the top 10 or the lottery is if Wall and Crawford take enormous leaps in their growth as players and McGee stops playing like an idiot. Could happen but I doubt it.

[pjfootballer]

I think we'll be a top 15 lottery team next year. With the depth in the draft I think we could move up if we have to have someone.

[Going Commando]

I agree with a lot of what you just quoted Brave. When push comes to shove, neither DW or EK were worth giving up a ton for and that 6, 18, and future 1st asking price is absolutely ridiculous. I hope we responded with a prompt "go **** yourself" to that.

The funny thing is that Minnesota and Utah took players at positions that are three and four men deep on their roster at 2 and 3. What's Minnesota going to do with Kevin Love? What are they going to do with Johnson and Beasley if they decide to play Williams at the 3? They're stupid to think anyone wants to give up the farm for a player who's not a can't miss type, when everyone knows they're in an untenable situation. Everyone would probably rather just wait a little while and steal Johnson or Beasley off of them for 30 cents on the dollar.

Utah's position is even worse IMO. At least people actually want Kevin Love if Minnesota has to trade him. Does anyone really want to give up something of significance for Al Jefferson, Mehmet Okur, or Paul Millsap? Derrick Favors and Enes Kanter as your front court might have some promise on paper, but as of right now, that has got to be one of the worst defensive teams in the NBA. I'm not sure they wouldn't have been better off taking Brandon Knight and Singleton with their picks and rolling with the front court they already had, fixing it later as a better opportunity to do so arises. I really don't see how drafting Kanter brings something different to the table than what you had with Okur and Jefferson already and none of them can play defense.

As for Cleveland taking Tristan Thompson, I don't understand that pick in the slightest. Is he going to be better than J.J. Hickson? Aren't they basically the same player?

Finally, I understand Toronto's selection of Valanciunas came because they wanted a big guy who would actually play defense. Even still it was a dumbass pick. It means you have to do something with Bargnani, who is still their best player and it won't be easy to trade him because he's got four years left on his deal. I wouldn't trade for Bargnani's deal if I were a GM. You can't easily move Bargnani to PF because you gave Amir Johnson that stupid contract (4 years left on it) and just drafted Ed Davis. So what, we're just not going to see Valanciunas for another 4 years? Did they really just draft a player at 5 knowing full well he'd be a backup? That's depressing. I think they'd have been better off drafting Brandon Knight to pair with DeMar Derozan if you want to improve your team defense. Knight is a very good defender, smart player, mature, creates for himself, and played very well as a freshman on a big time program with a recent history of pumping out fantastic freshman PGs.

I think us picking Vesely was easily the most justifiable of picks 2-6.

[SuperBash]

So we essentially traded Hinrich for Crawford, Seraphin, and Singleton? Never knew he was worth so much!

Edited June 24, 2011 by SuperBash

[Going Commando]

I think we'll be a top 15 lottery team next year. With the depth in the draft I think we could move up if we have to have someone.

That's a possibility. But if the asking price is anything like what teams were asking this year (for guys who weren't that good), I wouldn't be too sure of that.

Who is everyone's early favorite for our inevitable 2012 lottery pick?

Mine are Michael Gilchrist and Anthony Davis from Kentucky right now. Davis can play PF and gives you a phenomenally athletic front court with a superstar forward to be the primary scorer who makes his own shots instead of being a pick and roll outlet like Vesely.

Gilchrist can play 2 guard and gives you a huge lineup from 1-5 when Vesely is on the court too. Gilchrist does everything well--defends, rebounds, shoots, creates, facilitates, finishes, fantastic intangibles. He's your second star and doesn't require the offense to channel through him.

I could also get behind Austin Rivers although I'm afraid he won't be more than a wealthy man's Stephen Curry in the NBA.

Perry Jones and James McAdoo are also options since they're 4s (although I still think Jones is an NBA wing) but I don't like them as much as I like Gilchrist.

I think Vesely gets in the way of Harrison Barnes and Quincy Miller. I can't see them playing the 2 or 4 on a regular basis and picking them probably wipes out Vesely's future here.

Edited June 24, 2011 by stevemcqueen1

[DCchillin89]

Rome wasn't built in a day fellas:

2012 Mock

1

Minnesota

Anthony Davis

2

Cleveland

Harrison Barnes

3

Toronto

James McAdoo

4

Washington

Perry Jones

5

Sacramento

Quincy Miller

6

New Jersey

Jared Sullinger

7

Detroit

Jeremy Lamb

8

LA Clippers

Marquis Teague

9

Charlotte

Myck Kabongo

10

Milwaukee

Brad Beal

11

Golden St.

Austin Rivers

6-4

12

Utah

Michael Gilchrist

13

Phoenix

Adonis Thomas

14

Houston

Terrence Jones.

Next year, we grab our SG/Scorer, as the draft is so much deeper than this years. Combine that will the development of our young guys and the future is bright

---------- Post added June-24th-2011 at 12:06 PM ----------

My early favorite is Michael Gilchrist. I think that's a realistic pick and would fit with this up tempo Phoenix suns style of play.

[No Excuses]

So we essentially traded Hinrich for Crawford, Seraphin, and Singleton? Never knew he was worth so much!

Pretty much. Atlanta got robbed in that trade. Two first round picks for Kirk Hinrich lol.

Coming out with Crawford and Singleton for a half season rental is awesome. Seraphin is a nice prospect. I would have preferred if he stayed overseas to develop a little more.

[StillUnknown]

Next year, we grab our SG/Scorer, as the draft is so much deeper than this years. Combine that will the development of our young guys and the future is bright

---------- Post added June-24th-2011 at 12:06 PM ----------

My early favorite is Michael Gilchrist. I think that's a realistic pick and would fit with this up tempo Phoenix suns style of play.

if there is a season next year, it has to be a make or break deal for #7. If he lives down to who most of us think he is, Grunfeld might want to draft his replacement

[No Excuses]

They should draft his replacement regardless of how he plays. I have zero trust in Baltche to put together good games for longer than 2-3 weeks.

[Going Commando]

I've been thinking about our roster construction and I think having a PG like Wall means we're never going to have one go to 25 PPG scoring SG or forward. When you've got a distributor like Wall, you're best bet is to give him a variety of good weapons rather than one single super weapon. He's going to find them and coax the most out of them, plus he gets his own points each night.

When you've got an elite PG, several 15 PPG guys who can all score in different ways is a lot harder to defend than just one or two elite offensive weaponswhen you spread that out over an 82 game season, or even a 7 game series.

We're assembling several good but not great scorers who bring a variety of offensive tools, and I think this approach makes sense. You're end goal should be a high ball movement offense where you thrive by exploiting a few key mismatches each night. For instance, if you've got a team susceptible to pick and roll, then it's going to be Vesely and McGee's night. Short 3? feed it to Vesely and have him shoot. Slow 2 or 3? Have NY work him off the ball or Crawford take him off the dribble. I'm not really sure what Blatche brings to the table in terms of play calling. There's probably something there to be used though.

I think we're probably a few things away from really executing this type of attack. First off, NY and Vesely need to become better passers IMO, if ball movement is going to be such a critical part of the offense. Vesely's turnover rate needs to come down once he gets here. Second, we need someone to be a reliable scorer on the block. Blatche has got to get better with his post up offense so that he can actually be worth keeping around. No more of this settling for long jumpshots, he needs to hustle to his spots and learn to operate within 15 feet. Third, JaVale and Blatche have got to become better rebounders because we let bad teams work us on the offensive glass. Either that or we need to go out and find a new big who can rebound without taking a ton away from what Blatche and McGee already give us.

All in all, I think we're a lot closer to being good than the older, more pessimistic fans give us credit for. We've got a lot of the pieces of a really good team already in place.

---------- Post added June-24th-2011 at 12:27 PM ----------

They should draft his replacement regardless of how he plays. I have zero trust in Baltche to put together good games for longer than 2-3 weeks.

Blatche can be a good player if Zach Randolph can make such a shocking 180. But I get the feeling he's the type who'll only play hard and smart on winning teams. He probably needs a change of scenery.

[Warhead36]

Zach Randolph was always a good player, he was just nutty and a headcase. If you look at his #s though he's always been a much better player than Blatche.

[Going Commando]

Also, Ted's not as down on Blatche as we are. At least not according to his own words. He thinks Blatche is going to come out next season and have a special year.

I wonder how long that sentiment is going to last though if Blatche keeps finding himself in the middle of face palm moments like Lap Dance Tuesdays. Honestly Blatche, how could you not realize lending your name to a marketing ploy for a strip joint would end up looking bad?

What if Blatche comes into next season in really good shape and has a fast start? I bet most of us would change our tune about him pretty quickly and accept him back into the fold.

---------- Post added June-24th-2011 at 12:36 PM ----------

Zach Randolph was always a good player, he was just nutty and a headcase. If you look at his #s though he's always been a much better player than Blatche.

Zach Randolph is on his fourth team despite being a very good player largely because of what a nutjob and toxic locker room presence he was.