Destino Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 (edited) Based off of what? I strong 2-3 game stretch hardly justifies his draft position, let alone him keeping a roster spot next year (or beyond).Roster spots aren't at a premium next season, cap space however is. They'll need to sign a cheap big or three. Every player at the 4 and 5 not named Nene expires at the end of the season. They have about 15 million to fill that hole and its likely a starting center will eat most of that. They're also losing Ariza and still lack a capable backup PG and SG. Webster can't spend his time at the 2 with Ariza gone. They had to pass on Ves' option because the number was too big. If they can resign him for cheap it would make sense. His draft position means nothing. Edited January 9, 2014 by Destino Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G.A.C.O.L.B. Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Good to see my boy Vesely finally being respected and appreciated. And my favorite moment of the night was when Wall got the steal and dove on the ball and called a timeout. Awesome to see the entire freaking team hovering around him, like they were tickling him or something, and the huge smile on his face. These guys clearly love playing with each other. A real team finally. And it was closer than it should have been but I don't think it was ever really in doubt. Great win. And good to see Beal starting to get his **** together. He's the key. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skin'emAlive Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Good to see my boy Vesely finally being respected and appreciated. Â Ves was rightfully dogged. Now whether or not he found his niche through the efforts of the coaching staff, or just sheer luck is a different story. They seemed to have done a terrible job with Seraphin. Jan is hustling his ass off these days. Its confusing. Or perhaps Nene being on the court with him has had a huge hand in his development. Its really tough to pinpoint, but i bet if you put Nene back in the starting lineup, there would be alot of regression from Ves, and others. Â Im just happy that he seems to be really trying out there. If he picks a niche ( hustle, defensive, athletic big) and sticks to that formula, i think he can fill a role on teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonArtest15 Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Roster spots aren't at a premium next season, cap space however is. They'll need to sign a cheap big or three. Every player at the 4 and 5 not named Nene expires at the end of the season. They have about 15 million to fill that hole and its likely a starting center will eat most of that. They're also losing Ariza and still lack a capable backup PG and SG. Webster can't spend his time at the 2 with Ariza gone. They had to pass on Ves' option because the number was too big. If they can resign him for cheap it would make sense. His draft position means nothing.  What's "cheap" to you? Only guy who has validated another contract, is Booker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky21 Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Â This might be Vesely's best half of his career. 6 points, 5 boards. Drew a couple of fouls. Disruptive on D. He looks like a different player on offense. Scored without hesitation on a running hook. He's given us an inside target and scored with touch around the rim. You nailed it. I don't what got into the guy...but I like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Ves's situation isn't that confusing. It's clear his issues were a transition to a new position, adjusting to the speed and physicality of the NBA, getting over drafted by a horrible team, lack of playing time, and an unfortunate problem shooting FTs. All of that combined to result in a profound loss of confidence which threatened his career. Risk is inherent to competitive sports. An athlete can't lose his confidence for good or else he'll stop performing and it's over. We mismanaged Vesely pretty significantly from day one. But I also think we weren't really in a position to use him properly during his first two seasons. We sucked too much and he was clearly a project player. We needed quality vets and stable line ups around him and we didn't have that until this season. A player like Ves is going to make mistakes and he's going to have limitations that will make a coach completely desperate to win in order to keep his job unwilling to play him. The reason he's different this year is that he went back to Europe and played in an environment where he had some success and he got his confidence back. His skills have also been expanding, which is another source of confidence. And the NBA game is starting to slow down for him now that he's three years in, another source of confidence. And it seems like he's made friends with our other players, particularly Gortat. Gortat said Ves was the one who immediately took to him and helped him transition here so quickly. So Ves has become a member of the team and bought in. Yet another source for confidence. And the coaches took notice and started playing him and he's responded well to the call. Timing is everything. Ves's talents have been clear since the beginning. He's always had a good BBIQ and instincts and he's always been fast, 7 feet tall, and an explosive leaper. Also Ves has started playing much less soft now that he's more comfortable in his role and has begun adjusting to the NBA. Aside from the expanding offensive skill set, that's the biggest thing I've noticed. Ves was not really a good rebounder when we drafted him. Now he's become a reliable rebounder and a real pest on the offensive glass. And his hands look better. Still can't shoot FTs for crap, but he's got enough skill now that he's not scared to catch the ball and do something with it. Ves will eke out a long career in the NBA just by rebounding and playing defense and being 7 feet tall. I do think the fan base was too quick to give up on him. Project bigs take a while. And the team was so awful when he got here, few could have succeeded under the circumstances. But we're used to having our guys bust. We're not used to seeing struggling young players figure it out here and improve. We're used to only seeing that happen when the guys leave here and go somewhere else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonArtest15 Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 (edited) I'd have no problem offering him another contract IF he can sustain his play going forward.  *SM - I get a lot of what you're saying, but part of the problem was where he was drafted. There is no denying that. If he was a pick in the 15-30 range, or something along those lines, people might exercise more patience with Ves. Let's remember...he was playing pro ball in Europe before he came over here. I do wonder how much EG scouted him, or if he relied on his youtube highlights for his analysis.  What he's doing as of late is encouraging. I'll give him that. It's a testament to him persevering and the coaching staff getting their **** together. As long as he can find a way to contribute on a NIGHTLY basis, I'm all for giving him a reasonable deal at the end of the year. As of now, I say no. That's just because the sample size is entirely too small for me to justify him being on the roster past this season. However, it's not to say that my feelings will change. As I mentioned a few time previously, he's got to do this consistently. Edited January 9, 2014 by RonArtest15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Roster spots aren't at a premium next season, cap space however is. They'll need to sign a cheap big or three. Every player at the 4 and 5 not named Nene expires at the end of the season. They have about 15 million to fill that hole and its likely a starting center will eat most of that. They're also losing Ariza and still lack a capable backup PG and SG. Webster can't spend his time at the 2 with Ariza gone. They had to pass on Ves' option because the number was too big. If they can resign him for cheap it would make sense. His draft position means nothing. Agreed. His draft position is irrelevant moving forward. That draft pick is long gone. Right now, given our cap situation, I'd bring back Vesely and Booker unless we found something better in FA. They're useful rotation players to me. I don't really know what to make of Seraphin and Singleton. Those two are still huge projects. If we Ariza walks and we can't get a decent back up C and we don't have any other options, I'd consider bringing them back for bargain barrel contracts. Booker has probably earned a little money. Not too much given his injury history, but something. I'm thinking 4 million-ish per year. Ves is in the 2.5 to 3 million per year range for me. His upside is still such that he could earn a lot more down the road, but given his career production, this should be a cheap contract IMO. Less that Zaza Pachulia made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 I'd have no problem offering him another contract IF he can sustain his play going forward.  *SM - I get a lot of what you're saying, but part of the problem was where he was drafted. There is no denying that. If he was a pick in the 15-30 range, or something along those lines, people might exercise more patience with Ves. Let's remember...he was playing pro ball in Europe before he came over here. I do wonder how much EG scouted him, or if he relied on his youtube highlights for his analysis.  What he's doing as of late is encouraging. I'll give him that. It's a testament to him persevering and the coaching staff getting their **** together. As long as he can find a way to contribute on a NIGHTLY basis, I'm all for giving him a reasonable deal at the end of the year. As of now, I say no. That's just because the sample size is entirely too small for me to justify him being on the roster past this season. However, it's not to say that my feelings will change. As I mentioned a few time previously, he's got to do this consistently. I don't really care where he was drafted any more. That draft pick is a sunk cost, we're never getting it back. What I care about is how he is performing in the present and what I can expect from him moving forward. As Destino said, roster spots aren't at a premium this summer because we don't have the money to go beserk in FA and bring in a ton of good players. We're going to be looking for bargain price front court depth and one of our best bets for that is to try and bring back our own players. All Jan really has to do to justify a roster spot next season is be a better, more affordable option than a very small field. I think Jan getting about 20 minutes a night is a positive development. I hope he keeps getting that PT going forward. 20 minutes a night is enough for him to thrive right now and if he keeps playing like that, I think he'll sustain his success. Seraphin needs to stay on the bench so long as Nene, Gortat, Booker, and Ves are healthy enough to play. Harrington's career is probably over. We don't really have options worth playing over Vesely right now. We should have a better picture of what what we've got with Vesely by the end of the year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Excuses Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 The minimum is all Jan deserves. Guy is a bonafide scrub who will occassionaly look good. His role as a rebounder and hustler can be filled by someone like Reggie Evans. Really hope Ernie isn't dumb enough to give him any more than that but of course we are the team who outbids itself so there's that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperBash Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 It is JANuary, after all 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 I want some more Jan oops tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeWolf990 Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Jan Vesely sucks and isnt worth anything more than 2 million a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky21 Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Y'all know who has the best record in the NBA, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Based off of what? I strong 2-3 game stretch hardly justifies his draft position, let alone him keeping a roster spot next year (or beyond).  Completely agree. Keeping guys like Booker or Vesley based on small stretches of good play over the course of multiple years is one of the reasons bad teams stay bad. Maybe if they have league minimum contracts you think about keeping one or both to fill out the roster otherwise they are totally expendable. In the off season the team needs to be looking at veteran upgrades to fill out the second unit. Jan Vesely sucks and isnt worth anything more than 2 million a year.  He's not even worth $2 million a year. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G.A.C.O.L.B. Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 You all are going to make me cry. But that's fine. You'll learn to respect my boy Jan soon enough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRobi21 Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Jan dropping 30+ tonight in the upset over IND.  #JANuary 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Isn't Jan in his third year? Players are expected to get better in the third year . He's also only in his second as a big man, which in normal conditions can take longer than three to mature into an nba game. Forget his draft position, the guy is a role player off the bench at best. There is no reason to think he can't be a decent role player though. Name a more athletic guy his size, athletic enough to guard along the perimeter, that can be had for cheaper? His versatility is great to have on the bench. He should stay if the price is right. By right I mean cheap. He should be paid like what he is, a bench player that is mostly a known for his energy and hustle. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 I got Jan for 12-10-5 and 3 tonight. Â Shock the world! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRobi21 Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 I got Jan for 12-10-5 and 3 tonight. Â Yea. Â In the first half!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 They're going to have to make alley-oops and official box score stat because of Jan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 (edited) Jan scores 4 points on three shot attempts and gets 4 rebounds tonight. This is fun we should do this every game. (I know you guys were joking but I just made it real.) Edited January 10, 2014 by Destino Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 (edited) I'm just besides myself with the comment on Jan finally getting some respect. I mean, GD, the man had nearly twice as many personal fouls as FGs made last year, respect and appreciation have to be earned, man. lol But really, I'm with Destino here. Ya he's not playing like a #6 overall pick, but he's serving a purpose off the bench right now, finally, and should be cheap enough to keep. A third year player who in theory should still have upside left, why not??? Edited January 10, 2014 by Renegade7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 Awful start. Wall is playing poorly. We've gotten a few looks, just poor shooting. Too much standing around. Too little ball movement. Pacers look more composed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 Pressing. Wall is off tonight. Refs are slow with the whistles tonight. Smart foul by Temple. If it's going to be a wrestling match where we dare the refs to call fouls, we're going to lose. Those guys took forever and a day to call a kick ball that happened right in front of their faces. Garrett Temple doing work. Nice game so far from him. Nene is playing well too. Isn't hand checking supposed to be illegal? Webster gets called for an offensive foul that couldn't happen without him being hand checked. Why not? Mahimi flopped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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