The Official Washington Basketball Thread: Wizards, Mystics etc

[Skin'emAlive]

Plus it seems that he can dribble AND shoot the ball. Incredible.

Im not sure why. But that comment just made me lose it. hahaha.

[Going Commando]

Zeller is bigger than Love.

Love knows how the ball bounces off the rim and knows how to get it. Its pretty uncanny, i have never seen that from Zeller.

I have to watch Zeller more to get a better NBA comparison, but off gut he reminds me of ZBo with more bounce.

If the Wizards get teh #1 pick, I would take Shabazz. Im convinced he will be better in the NBA than at UCLA like every other player that has played there under Ben Howland.

I could see some Zbo in Zeller but he doesn't have that kind of strength and physicality. I see some LaMarcus Aldridge in playing style but he doesn't have Aldridge's awesome arm length. I see some Pau Gasol too with the highly skilled finesse style but not the same handles as Gasol. I agree about him not being like Love. He is longer and leaner and much more of an inside scorer and he doesn't rebound like Love.

I also agree that you take Shabbaz #1. He's the best player in the class. That's the reason you do it IMO.

---------- Post added December-20th-2012 at 07:37 AM ----------

Shabazz will be good in the NBA regardless of Wall. Noel and Len have chances of impacting the game without wall too...Not sure about Porter or Poythress. Everyone else...eh...we might want to swap out after that.

I'm not on the Porter bandwagon. I don't see what he's got at an elite level except length.

Poythress is pretty good but he doesn't have a true NBA position IMO. The impression I got of him was a poor man's, more scoring oriented MKG. I wouldn't take him top 3.

I've cooled on Len because he cooled off after that hot start. He's good, a definite top five pick to me, but I don't think I'd take him #1. I do like that his body is NBA ready though. But he's also got a year of physical development on guys like Noel. And he did absolutely nothing as a Freshman whereas guys like Shabbaz and Noel are coming out and playing well for high profile teams right off the bat.

Noel is the most interesting player in the class to me. Best body probably. Best athlete among the bigs by far. Probably the best rebounder and almost certainly the best shot blocker. Probably the best defender overall. He's also probably the best passer. He just has no scoring whatsoever. He's averaging 10 PPG on pure hustle.

---------- Post added December-20th-2012 at 07:40 AM ----------

Cody screams bust to me. A finess bigman with meh athleticism and short arms...that doesn't translate well into the pros no matter how skilled he may be. I could see Proythess coming in play by years end or even Porter...but I would trade back if I could to get them. If you don't have a shot at Shabazz or Noel, trade back and hopefully off load some dead weight in Ariza or Okafor as they can be interpreted as expirings next season. Shabazz is big enough in todays NBA to play SF and his lack of playmaking right now would be masked next to a (hopefully) healthy Wall.

Zeller is one of the few I can't see being a bust. He's a safe pick. True big men who can score like him get run in the NBA. He'll never be a superstar, but he'll always have a spot in some team's rotation and probably get big minutes early in his career.

Brook Lopez got a 60 million dollar deal because he's a big man that can score. I see Zeller being a better player than him.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

I've cooled on Len because he cooled off after that hot start.

Seen every MD game this year and Len hasn't cooled off at all. His numbers are suppressed because Mark Turgeon is using different lineup combinations.

Trying to integrate freshman etc,

I think you'll see his numbers rise when the Terps get to conference play.

---------- Post added December-20th-2012 at 08:21 AM ----------

Beal and Nene give me some hope. Nene is a good player and I think Beal is going to be a good one too. I hope Wall comes back OK, but even if he doesn't, we've at least got two pretty good players locked up long term to build around.,

That's the problem.

Nene and Beal are/will be good players....but you don't build your franchise around GOOD players.

You need at least one GREAT player.

Edited December 20, 2012 by BRAVEONAWARPATH

[Going Commando]

Seen every MD game this year and Len hasn't cooled off at all. His numbers are suppressed because Mark Turgeon is using different lineup combinations.

Trying to integrate freshman etc,

I think you'll see his numbers rise when the Terps get to conference play.

I would like to see that because I like Len's physical profile better than all of the other bigs except for Noel probably. He's a true 7 footer and is already 255. I do want to know why he didn't really do anything as a freshman though. Where did this year come from?

For me it's important to get a big man if you get a shot at a good one because the NBA's best bigs are not generally going to be on the move. I had hopes for LaMarcus Aldridge leaving but it looks like Portland was able to right the ship in time. Kevin Love might make the playoffs this year and pipe down and regardless, his team owns him for a few more years. Pau Gasol is available but only for one more year and his contract is enormous.

This is an open question to everyone here: how many bigs are there in the NBA you would consider a good and desirable player?

Not many IMO. The dropoff after the few that are is enormous. You very quickly get into the territory of guys you don't even want to trot out on the court.

Here is my list in no particular order plus their availability:

1.) Dwight - available to a small handful of teams.

2.) Bynum - maybe available but a huge injury and financial risk that makes him undesirable.

3.) Duncan - not available

4.) Noah - not available

5.) Dirk - not available

6.) KG - not available nor particularly desirable this late in his career

7.) Pau - available but not that desirable all things considered

8.) Marc - not available

9.) Aldridge - not available

10.) Love - not available... yet

11.) Bosh - not available

12.) Hibbert - not available

13.) Blake - not available

14.) Nene - already have him

15.) Monroe - not available

16.) Cousins - not available... for now

17.) Jefferson - not available

18.) Millsap - not really a true big

19.) Horford - not available

20.) Josh Smith - not available right now and not a true big

21.) Chandler - not available

22.) Varejao - don't think he's available but not sure

23.) David Lee - not available

24.) ZBo - not available

25.) Davis - not available

26.) Ibaka - not available

27.) Faried - not available

28.) West - don't really know if he's available

29.) Kaman - not available and now you're starting to stretch desirability

There are some I'm not quite willing to put in the good and desirable category yet although they are around that level:

30.) Larry Sanders

31.) Derrick Favors

32.) Ryan Anderson

33.) Bismack

34.) JaVale

35.) Asik

36.) Ilyasova

37.) Hickson

38.) Glen Davis

Then there are some guys who are pretty good but it's kind of hard to call them desirable because of age, contract, regression, etc.

- Gortat

- Boozer

- Brand

- Scola

- Lopez

- Amare

So in all I feel like there are about 40 big men in the NBA that you feel good about even trotting out onto the court. That's not even enough for each team to start two. And most of them are not available. If you try and look for an available big to replace one of your guys, the pickings are so slim you very quickly start talking yourself into scrubs like Desanga Diop.

Hence the value of true bigs who can score and rebound in the draft.

That's the problem.

Nene and Beal are/will be good players....but you don't build your franchise around GOOD players.

You need at least one GREAT player.

Maybe have good players would be enough to lure a great one. Houston got James Harden and now there was talk on the Dan Patrick show today about Dwight trying to sign with them this summer. They're legitimately in that conversation now.

[Skin'emAlive]

That was some pretty good analysis right there steve. I never really though about the lack of big man availability. Its much more scarce than i originally thought. That being said, we need a scoring SF in the worst way. That has to be the top priority. If Shabazz is that guy and we have the pick, we have to take him. I dont think i could stomach another "defensive specialist with upside" on this team.

Harden is a star player. Good players do not lure allstars. Not in the current NBA. Stars lure allstars.

[Hersh]

I don't know why I subject myself to Ted's take, but I do:

Another game, another player lost to injury. Another game where we lose by seven points or less.

We are now 3 and 13 in these close games.

The only positive from last night was seeing Nene gaining his stamina and showing how he can contribute and be a dominant player in the middle. He is one of the most efficient players in the league and uses his 20 minutes or so per game in the best way possible.

Center and point guard are the two key positions on almost every team in the NBA.

Read this article. It is stunning to me to see Wall, Ariza, Beal, Price and Booker all sidelined and Nene still only able to contribute 20 minutes per game.

The mention about Center being one of the two key positions on almost every team is worrisome to me.

Edited December 20, 2012 by Hersh

[Destino]

Nene has never been a "dominant" player. He's never averaged 15ppg or better. Never averaged 8 rebounds per game or better. Greg Monroe in Detroit averaged 15+ and 9+ last season and no one thinks him a dominant center. Ted Take should be renamed "blowing smoke"

[Going Commando]

Nene has never been a "dominant" player. He's never averaged 15ppg or better. Never averaged 8 rebounds per game or better. Greg Monroe in Detroit averaged 15+ and 9+ last season and no one thinks him a dominant center. Ted Take should be renamed "blowing smoke"

I'm actually really curious about why Nene was never a dominant player in Denver numbers-wise.

The player I've seen here has looked wholly better than I expected and I do think he has the ability to take over and dominate games. He gets in the game and makes a big impact.

The only thing I can think of is he just must not have been featured in Denver. Here in DC, the only bar to him being an 20 & 10 center on 55% shooting playing good defense and something like a 22+ PER is his injuries. His minutes have been somewhat limited since he got here. His per minute numbers are pretty awesome here and he's got a 24 PER with the Wizards.

He gets in the game and takes up a ton of space. He's got a big body, big enough to make Horford look small in comparison. He gets late clock scores and is the best scoring option on a lot of our plays. He's a good ISO scorer and scores against double teams. He'll go like 7/9 and get to the FT line several times a game and he makes his FTs. He plays good D and runs the floor. He manages to keep games close when he's in whereas we get blown out on the nights he takes off. He just doesn't really take bad shots or make bad plays. He's a terrific passer and ball handler. He always seems well prepared.

He's a damn good player and has actually managed to get better since he got here. I'm wondering what Denver was doing wrong with him? He wasn't bad there but he wasn't this good.

Even when Wall gets back, Nene is still going to be our best player by far.

---------- Post added December-20th-2012 at 03:56 PM ----------

That was some pretty good analysis right there steve. I never really though about the lack of big man availability. Its much more scarce than i originally thought. That being said' date=' we need a scoring SF in the worst way. That has to be the top priority. If Shabazz is that guy and we have the pick, we have to take him. I dont think i could stomach another "defensive specialist with upside" on this team.

Harden is a star player. Good players do not lure allstars. Not in the current NBA. Stars lure allstars.[/quote']

I doubt Harden is enough to lure a player like Dwight on his own. The appeal of Houston comes from Dwight being able to take the team over as the featured player in Houston's system + the amazing track record Kevin McHale has coaching bigs. Plus Houston is definitely a warm weather city.

Kobe is a superstar and he's going to deter Dwight from signing an extension in LA...

Harden is not on Kobe's level. Not on DWill or CP3s level as other draws. But Harden is a really good player who is unselfish and knows how to play with a Superstar and not get in his way. He's all about team chemistry and fitting himself into the team as a whole. If I were a superstar, that would be the kind of player I would want to go and play with,.

And that's exactly the type of players that Wall, Nene, and Beal are. They don't care about their numbers or their brand. They love setting teammates up and they love fitting themselves into the structure of the team.

I think you can lure great players to your team if you've got a nice foundation of good, unselfish players like that. I think if we show improvement next season, we could have a shot at luring a star type alpha player in 2014 should we have the cap space and should our FO get replaced and build some credibility. With or without Wall, though having a healthy Wall would help.

Edited December 20, 2012 by stevemcqueen1

[StillUnknown]

I don't know why I subject myself to Ted's take, but I do:

The mention about Center being one of the two key positions on almost every team is worrisome to me.

He is really trying to convince fans that any loss within 7 points is acceptable. That is ****ing sad.

[Going Commando]

He is really trying to convince fans that any loss within 7 points is acceptable. That is ****ing sad.

It's his only way to spin 3-20. He's trying to sell his fan base on this team. He'd probably WIN more credibility if he was honest though. And he'd definitely win a lot more by firing Ernie.

---------- Post added December-20th-2012 at 05:23 PM ----------

Jabari Parker chose Duke. Interesting.

[the burgundy and gold]

lol this season is just getting worse and worse. The team is bound to implode if Wall doesn't get back soon. The more time he misses the more sick I feel. We need Wall back very soon, he has to be getting frustrated with this organization and at this rate will not be returning once his rookie contract runs out.

By far the best quote from Ted:

It is stunning to me to see Wall, Ariza, Beal, Price and Booker all sidelined and Nene still only able to contribute 20 minutes per game.

Yes it's stunning to us as well that even with half of our damn team injured, Nene still can only play 20 minutes. Truly stunning that we traded our 2nd biggest asset for damaged goods.

Edit: after rereading I really can't believe the owner of our team blogs this BS. It's embarrassing honestly.

The only positive from last night was seeing Nene gaining his stamina and showing how he can contribute and be a dominant player in the middle. He is one of the most efficient players in the league and uses his 20 minutes or so per game in the best way possible.

Are we really supposed to be satisfied with him providing us with 20 minutes per game? Sure he plays his heart out for his 20 minutes or so per game, but Ted the game is 48 minutes!

For the record this post is not bashing Nene for playing 20 minutes, it's bashing Ted for posting this ****.

Edited December 21, 2012 by the burgundy and gold

[Destino]

Wizards need to offer some combination of Vesely, Booker, Singleton, and a second round pick for D Williams soon. The T Wolves don't even want to play him and we have nothing good behind nene at the 4.

[StillUnknown]

For the record this post is not bashing Nene for playing 20 minutes, it's bashing Ted for posting this ****.

Ted got slayed in the comments section for that posting.

this comment rings especially true:

Alex Crow on December 20, 2012 at 2:22 PM said:

Never before have I seen a team accept losing so casually, as if it were status quo. It seems Wittman has carte blanche to do so because the excuses are continually being generated from the top.

This organization needs stronger leadership. 3-20 is not okay. Wizards fans are tired of the excuses.

Wizards need to offer some combination of Vesely, Booker, Singleton, and a second round pick for D Williams soon. The T Wolves don't even want to play him and we have nothing good behind nene at the 4.

But......Ted believes in Jan Vesely. When Wall comes back, he'll magically turn into a serviceable player instead of his current status as a waste of a roster spot.

Edited December 21, 2012 by StillUnknown

[Going Commando]

lol this season is just getting worse and worse. The team is bound to implode if Wall doesn't get back soon. The more time he misses the more sick I feel. We need Wall back very soon, he has to be getting frustrated with this organization and at this rate will not be returning once his rookie contract runs out.

By far the best quote from Ted:

Yes it's stunning to us as well that even with half of our damn team injured, Nene still can only play 20 minutes. Truly stunning that we traded our 2nd biggest asset for damaged goods.

Edit: after rereading I really can't believe the owner of our team blogs this BS. It's embarrassing honestly.

Are we really supposed to be satisfied with him providing us with 20 minutes per game? Sure he plays his heart out for his 20 minutes or so per game, but Ted the game is 48 minutes!

For the record this post is not bashing Nene for playing 20 minutes, it's bashing Ted for posting this ****.

Nene's minutes are limited because h's playing with an injury, not because he can't beat out others to get on the court.

[nuposse87]

I'm not on the Porter bandwagon. I don't see what he's got at an elite level except length.

Poythress is pretty good but he doesn't have a true NBA position IMO. The impression I got of him was a poor man's, more scoring oriented MKG. I wouldn't take him top 3.

I've cooled on Len because he cooled off after that hot start. He's good, a definite top five pick to me, but I don't think I'd take him #1. I do like that his body is NBA ready though. But he's also got a year of physical development on guys like Noel. And he did absolutely nothing as a Freshman whereas guys like Shabbaz and Noel are coming out and playing well for high profile teams right off the bat.

Noel is the most interesting player in the class to me. Best body probably. Best athlete among the bigs by far. Probably the best rebounder and almost certainly the best shot blocker. Probably the best defender overall. He's also probably the best passer. He just has no scoring whatsoever. He's averaging 10 PPG on pure hustle.

---------- Post added December-20th-2012 at 07:40 AM ----------

Zeller is one of the few I can't see being a bust. He's a safe pick. True big men who can score like him get run in the NBA. He'll never be a superstar, but he'll always have a spot in some team's rotation and probably get big minutes early in his career.

Brook Lopez got a 60 million dollar deal because he's a big man that can score. I see Zeller being a better player than him.

With regards to porter and Poythress..I would only take them if I didn't have a top 3 pick. I'd trade back maybe 2/3 spots depending on their respective draft grade and teams behind us and their draft needs.

Noel is mostly a hustle player, but I've seen him make moves you expect that highly touted a player make. Rebounding is a big problem on this team and at the very least he'd help in that. He doesn't seem to rotate well yet on D but I imagine that'd be amendable over time. His elite shot blocking ought to mask that some as well. Agreed on len, he isn't a number 1 over all pick barring an absurd show of growth in basketball skill.

Now with regards to Zeller...I don't think his game warrants a top 5 pick. His best case scenario seems like a pick and pop forward. He's going to be a bad defender in the next level and isn't going to significantly upgrade anything for us. If Shabazz, Noel and Len are off the board, I'm trading back or out of the draft. Brook Lopez's wingspan is far more imposing then Zeller's 6'8 wingspan. He is absolutely skilled but he isn't going to be strong as z-bo and he won't be effective in low post. His niche is going to be like Sullinger's at the next level.

[AsiaticSkinsFan]

I could see some Zbo in Zeller but he doesn't have that kind of strength and physicality. I see some LaMarcus Aldridge in playing style but he doesn't have Aldridge's awesome arm length. I see some Pau Gasol too with the highly skilled finesse style but not the same handles as Gasol. I agree about him not being like Love. He is longer and leaner and much more of an inside scorer and he doesn't rebound like Love.

I also agree that you take Shabbaz #1. He's the best player in the class. That's the reason you do it IMO.

Zeller is a little wider than Aldridge is. I do agree about the strength thing with comparing him to ZBo, but Zeller has the frame to fill out like ZBo has.

I think he good, but I cant see dude being a great NBA player

Shabazz is the #1 player for me regardless. He has an NBA body and can handle. My only concern for dude is that he can be a black hole

---------- Post added December-21st-2012 at 01:29 AM ----------

Seen every MD game this year and Len hasn't cooled off at all. His numbers are suppressed because Mark Turgeon is using different lineup combinations.

Trying to integrate freshman etc,

I think you'll see his numbers rise when the Terps get to conference play.

I cannot wait to see him take a dump on Plumlee. He was doing it last year to Plumlee, and Len was weaker.

The ACC just dont know, he is the best big man in conference.

---------- Post added December-21st-2012 at 01:31 AM ----------

I would like to see that because I like Len's physical profile better than all of the other bigs except for Noel probably. He's a true 7 footer and is already 255. I do want to know why he didn't really do anything as a freshman though. Where did this year come from?

Len was like 210 lbs last year and it was his first year in America. Everyone knew he had the talent, just not the body.

[Going Commando]

Zeller is a little wider than Aldridge is. I do agree about the strength thing with comparing him to ZBo, but Zeller has the frame to fill out like ZBo has.

I think he good, but I cant see dude being a great NBA player

That's about how I feel too.

Do you see him being as good as a Z Bo or a Pau? If so, that's worth a top five pick IMO.

Shabazz is the #1 player for me regardless. He has an NBA body and can handle. My only concern for dude is that he can be a black hole

He's got some young Kobe in him, both good and bad. He needs to get to a point where he can keep his head up when he drives and look for teammates to dish it to instead of going for the shot every time.

He's a finisher though and I don't think that is going to change too much in the NBA. Not really a selfish player, just not a creative passer. You're going to isolate his side of the court and expect him to take the shot in catch and shoot situations. It's not too big a deal to me but yeah, it is a bit concerning.

Len was like 210 lbs last year and it was his first year in America. Everyone knew he had the talent, just not the body.

Remarkable he was able to gain 45 pounds in a year. I believe there is room in this class for Len to really dominate and make a push for first overall consideration. I'd love to see a big man like him really emerge as a top choice for us.

[Dave25]

There is almost no hope for the foreseeable future for this team especially if Wall is hurt long term. I just hope our idiot GM dosent do any more knee jerk trades to "contend" we should just tank and hope for a top 3 pick for either Noel,Zeller, or Muhammed.

Fire Grunfield and trade NeNe for whatever we can(damaged goods) and wait

for these awful Okafor and Ariza contracts to expire.After next year pray we luck into Parker or Wiggins the next superstars. Basically we have no hope of being a respectable franchise until 2015 at the earliest. Thank god for the Nats and Skins.

Edited December 21, 2012 by Dave25

[DallasBlowsBig]

Please tell me if I am wrong, but this is what concerns me the most.

We have a lot of young talent on this team, or at least young players with potential. And we have Randy Wittman as the person who is developing these players. I just don't believe he is capable of doing this. I am wrong to assume this?

[pjfootballer]

I thought this was the easy part of our schedule?

[StillUnknown]

Nene out tonight because of cold/flu. Beal is a gametime decision.

They may have no choice but to play Vesely tonight.

Edited December 21, 2012 by StillUnknown

[Destino]

Crawford, Martin, Vesely, Arron, and Singleton on the floor at the same time. That's all kinds of horrible.

[StillUnknown]

Vesely has been blocked at the rim twice after going up soft. The guy we drafted because he was tall and athletic is getting blocked at the rim.

[SiCkSoULjA]

Vesely has been blocked at the rim twice after going up soft. The guy we drafted because he was tall and athletic is getting blocked at the rim.

He doesn't belong in this league

[MonkFan8]

Jan padding his stats so far. By that I mean he's raising his foul/point ratio.

This team is an embarrassment to the NBA. Numerous teams are competing with injuries to their stars and it's frankly insulting that Ted thinks we can't see it.

Disgusting.