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The Official Washington Wizards Thread: The JOHN WALL ERA

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The pick that I am most curious about what we're going to do, is the ATL pick. IMO, having Trevor Booker makes Kenneth Faried redundant.

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wooooooooahhhh...not even close man. Booker (to me) is a pretty decent all around PF prospect, most likely his ceiling being a solid starter at the 4 and realistically the first big man off the bench and a solid role player. Faried, on the other hand, has the potential to be one of the elite rebounders/energy guys in the league.

With all the players committing to come back to school, this is a moot point.....Faired will likely be a late lotter pick, I'd be shocked to see him drop past 20...so I don't even think we will have a shot at him. Initially I saw him as a late first round/early second round pick, but I think his stock will continue to rise until we get to the draft.

I'd really like to go Chris Singleton with the ATL pick. Singleton would give us a legit young 3 and he is an excellent defender.

---------- Post added April-4th-2011 at 06:10 PM ----------

If Perry Jones is a beast of an athlete and had a refined offensive game, why didn't he dominate?

I don't think anyone said he had a refined offensive game....believe you are referring to when I said he had a good midrange shot. Good question though...i don't have an answer. How the hell did Rajon Rondo make it out of the lottery?

---------- Post added April-4th-2011 at 06:14 PM ----------

No more developmental question marks in the draft. The boom and bust picks are nice when you are picking in the high tens but we can't risk busting out with a top 5 pick. We badly need some kind of an impact player.

problem is, there aren't too many impact players in this draft. You've got Williams, who I think would be perfect; Irving, who makes even less sense with the emergence of Crawford.....and that is about it in my opinion.

I think you need to swing for the fences (being that there likely will be no sure impact player when we pick) This is a really important lottery to win. Williams makes us better right off the bat, whether he plays the 3 or the 4 at the next level.

Wall, Crawford, Young, Williams, McGee OR Wall, Young, Williams, Booker, McGee are both intriguing starting lineups of the future to me.

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Anyone read this? pretty hard on our Wizards, its been a rollercoaster ride for sure.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/110401&sportCat=nba

The Blatche comments are funny, Nick Young comments on point, the only thing I think hes missing his Javale's failed dunks from the free throw line. The future will be much better we just have to decide to get rid of either Young or Blatche, I would get rid of Young. Can you imagine YOUNG, BLATCHE and CRAWFORD all putting up 20 shots per game next year? LOL I don't think it can work 1 has too go theres not enough basketballs, Crawford is untouchable hes been playing awesome can play the 1 and 2 equally.

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Anyone read this? pretty hard on our Wizards, its been a rollercoaster ride for sure.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/110401&sportCat=nba

The Blatche comments are funny, Nick Young comments on point, the only thing I think hes missing his Javale's failed dunks from the free throw line. The future will be much better we just have to decide to get rid of either Young or Blatche, I would get rid of Young. Can you imagine YOUNG, BLATCHE and CRAWFORD all putting up 20 shots per game next year? LOL I don't think it can work 1 has too go theres not enough basketballs, Crawford is untouchable hes been playing awesome can play the 1 and 2 equally.

if i'm choosing between Blatche & Young, its an easy decision to get rid of a Blatche. Blatche is a cancer the sooner he's gone, the better

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If Perry Jones is a beast of an athlete and had a refined offensive game, why didn't he dominate?

I think it's because he was too quick to defer. He's got a passive mentality on the court and would rather grab the rebound and pass to a more experienced teammate. He played like a freshman and was a little afraid to take the shot. Comparing him to Barnes and Terrence Jones, you see he took about half as many shots from the floor as they did. He lacks their aggression.

But his field goal % was terrific. He shot .549% from the floor and still managed to average 14 points a game which isn't that much less than they did. He played within himself offensively, did the dirty work on the boards, blocked a lot of shots, and let Acey and Dunn handle the load.

Also, keep in mind that Terrence Jones and Harrison Barnes came onto squads that were very young where there weren't experienced perimeter scorers already in place. They had to come out shooting whereas Perry Jones had a smaller role offensively.

I wish Perry Jones had taken his team over and become a leader and star, but the mitigating circumstance is that he was probably a wide-eyed freshman that was uncomfortable telling the juniors and seniors what to do or taking their shots from them.

Sometimes it takes some freshmen a lot longer to adjust to the game (and college in general) even when they're top recruits. If Perry Jones stays in school, it wouldn't surprise me if he exploded next year as a sophomore. Blake Griffin was a highly touted guy with an athletic prfile like Jones who put up decent numbers as a freshman, but then took off like a rocket as a sophomore.

Perry Jones is a risky pick but he's also the swing for the fences choice. If we're picking about fifth, he'll probably be the best option we've got. Irving and Williams go top two, then Kanter is my favorite at 3. If he's gone, then I like Jones as much as any of the other Euros and I'm going to draft for upside by taking Perry over Terrence. Might as well when you're picking that high but all of the best bets are off the table.

And hot damn, if Perry Jones ever did make the leap you wouldn't regret it. He seriously is a Blake Griffin style athlete. He's freakishly long, fast, explodes off the floor with great hands and a good handle. He plays like a guard and has that type of quickness, passing skills, and ability off the dribble and Baylor was sitting there having him play center! Versatility.

I mean what would we have to lose? The class is weak and all of the pretty good bets would probably be gone at 4 or 5. I'd just say **** it, let me just take the SF with the 7'4 reach and be done with it. If he lives up to his abilities he'll be a lot better player than Derrick Williams because he's so much bigger and faster and has a real NBA position.

When considering Perry Jones against Terrence Jones, I think about it like this, would you rather have:

A - the power forward in a small forward's body (TJ)

B - the small forward in a power forward's body (PJ)

I'd definitely rather have B because it means you're creating mismatches that are good for your team whereas A creates mismatches in favor of their team. Big and fast is better than slower and smaller.

---------- Post added April-5th-2011 at 11:07 AM ----------

I don't think anyone said he had a refined offensive game....believe you are referring to when I said he had a good midrange shot. Good question though...i don't have an answer. How the hell did Rajon Rondo make it out of the lottery?

I've got hand it to you, I was wrong about PJ versus TJ before. PJ is a better prospect once you consider his total range of skills he brings to the table. He's got a higher basketball IQ IMO and has the passing and ball handling skills of that TJ doesn't have.

I think you're selling PJ short on his offensive skills though. He's got a very nice mid range jumper with fantastic ability to create off the dribble. He can finish with both hands equally well and is a monster on the offensive glass with putbacks and such. He's also got a nifty little skyhook and a nascent post game. There is not a player in college who he can't get a shot off against. I doubt there will be many in the NBA either.

I think his numbers are mediocre looking because he was afraid to shoot more than anything else. He just didn't take that many shots.

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I think it's because he was too quick to defer. He's got a passive mentality on the court and would rather grab the rebound and pass to a more experienced teammate. He played like a freshman and was a little afraid to take the shot. Comparing him to Barnes and Terrence Jones, you see he took about half as many shots from the floor as they did. He lacks their aggression.

But his field goal % was terrific. He shot .549% from the floor and still managed to average 14 points a game which isn't that much less than they did. He played within himself offensively, did the dirty work on the boards, blocked a lot of shots, and let Acey and Dunn handle the load.

Also, keep in mind that Terrence Jones and Harrison Barnes came onto squads that were very young where there weren't experienced perimeter scorers already in place. They had to come out shooting whereas Perry Jones had a smaller role offensively.

I wish Perry Jones had taken his team over and become a leader and star, but the mitigating circumstance is that he was probably a wide-eyed freshman that was uncomfortable telling the juniors and seniors what to do or taking their shots from them.

Sometimes it takes some freshmen a lot longer to adjust to the game (and college in general) even when they're top recruits. If Perry Jones stays in school, it wouldn't surprise me if he exploded next year as a sophomore. Blake Griffin was a highly touted guy with an athletic prfile like Jones who put up decent numbers as a freshman, but then took off like a rocket as a sophomore.

Perry Jones is a risky pick but he's also the swing for the fences choice. If we're picking about fifth, he'll probably be the best option we've got. Irving and Williams go top two, then Kanter is my favorite at 3. If he's gone, then I like Jones as much as any of the other Euros and I'm going to draft for upside by taking Perry over Terrence. Might as well when you're picking that high but all of the best bets are off the table.

And hot damn, if Perry Jones ever did make the leap you wouldn't regret it. He seriously is a Blake Griffin style athlete. He's freakishly long, fast, explodes off the floor with great hands and a good handle. He plays like a guard and has that type of quickness, passing skills, and ability off the dribble and Baylor was sitting there having him play center! Versatility.

I mean what would we have to lose? The class is weak and all of the pretty good bets would probably be gone at 4 or 5. I'd just say **** it, let me just take the SF with the 7'4 reach and be done with it. If he lives up to his abilities he'll be a lot better player than Derrick Williams because he's so much bigger and faster and has a real NBA position.

When considering Perry Jones against Terrence Jones, I think about it like this, would you rather have:

A - the power forward in a small forward's body (TJ)

B - the small forward in a power forward's body (PJ)

I'd definitely rather have B because it means you're creating mismatches that are good for your team whereas A creates mismatches in favor of their team. Big and fast is better than slower and smaller.

---------- Post added April-5th-2011 at 11:07 AM ----------

I've got hand it to you, I was wrong about PJ versus TJ before. PJ is a better prospect once you consider his total range of skills he brings to the table. He's got a higher basketball IQ IMO and has the passing and ball handling skills of that TJ doesn't have.

I think you're selling PJ short on his offensive skills though. He's got a very nice mid range jumper with fantastic ability to create off the dribble. He can finish with both hands equally well and is a monster on the offensive glass with putbacks and such. He's also got a nifty little skyhook and a nascent post game. There is not a player in college who he can't get a shot off against. I doubt there will be many in the NBA either.

I think his numbers are mediocre looking because he was afraid to shoot more than anything else. He just didn't take that many shots.

Great post....although i still see Perry as a PF (Bosh) although hopefully more physical

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if i'm choosing between Blatche & Young, its an easy decision to get rid of a Blatche. Blatche is a cancer the sooner he's gone, the better

Blatche at least can help the team in different area's if he can stop being a knucklehead he would be 5x the player than Young as of right now hes only 2x the player. Young's incredible phantom defense, his negative assist to turnover ratio, he doesn't get any blocks, steals, rebound, assist NOTHING all he does is chuck the ball that isn't helping the team and maybe really a CANCER to the team. I saw Nick Young dunk the ball once all year which is sad because that was suppose to be his strength playing above the rim coming out of USC.

I am not really a big fan of Blatche he shoots the ball too much, I think its mostly because of Flips system trying to turn him into KG, when KG didn't hog the ball this much. Blatche at least gets rebounds (Jamison type rebounds where you wonder where the hell they came from) he can be a solid passer, hes good mid-range and has a good post game. If he grows up get a little more physical he can be a star.

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Great post....although i still see Perry as a PF (Bosh) although hopefully more physical

from SM's breakdown, he sounds more like a Lamar Odom type, which can be a very powerful asset to have as long as you're not counting on him to be "the guy"

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Blatche at least can help the team in different area's if he can stop being a knucklehead he would be 5x the player than Young as of right now hes only 2x the player. Young's incredible phantom defense, his negative assist to turnover ratio, he doesn't get any blocks, steals, rebound, assist NOTHING all he does is chuck the ball that isn't helping the team and maybe really a CANCER to the team. I saw Nick Young dunk the ball once all year which is sad because that was suppose to be his strength playing above the rim coming out of USC.

I am not really a big fan of Blatche he shoots the ball too much, I think its mostly because of Flips system trying to turn him into KG, when KG didn't hog the ball this much. Blatche at least gets rebounds (Jamison type rebounds where you wonder where the hell they came from) he can be a solid passer, hes good mid-range and has a good post game. If he grows up get a little more physical he can be a star.

Young, Wall, and Crawford solves this teams guard situation. I wouldn't change that lineup unless there was no choice.

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Blatche has a good post game, good mid range game, good passer, good blah blah blah.

Except for his entire career he's been below league average in almost every offensive category and this year he has posted an absolutely putrid shooting percentage.

I find it absolutely comical that an efficient player like Young is being criticized while a loser like Blatche is getting every excuse imaginable.

The guy has two good games out of a 70 game season and we are supposed to invest our future in him again. We should probably bring back Juan Dixon. Remember when he shat 30 on the Bulls in the playoffs?

Edited by No Excuses

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Blatche has a good post game, good mid range game, good passer, good blah blah blah.

Except for his entire career he's been below league average in almost every offensive category and this year he has posted an absolutely putrid shooting percentage.

I find it absolutely comical that an efficient player like Young is being criticized while a loser like Blatche is getting every excuse imaginable.

The guy has two good games out of a 70 game season and we are supposed to invest our future in him again. We should probably bring back Juan Dixon. Remember when he shat 30 on the Bulls in the playoffs?

LOL Nick Young has been below average in every category every year too, so he has 1 half of a season where he chucks the ball and we suppose to invest the future in him CHILD PLEASE.

Blatche is signed for low money his contract is not a problem, O and please don't act like Nick Young is a saint because he is known to be playful in the locker room and takes nothing serious. If you will like lets compare there careers. O and I am still waiting on those retarded stats you have locked down in area 51 that says Nick Young is this great defensive player

Edited by SiCkSoULjA

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Actually Nick has been a good 3 point shooter for pretty much his whole career. His efficiency in other areas has also steadily improved. Who the **** is investing the future in him with a big contract? He's going to get paid around the price range of a role playing SG. You know, you need more than just two quality guards on the team.

You know who hasn't steadily improved? Andray Blatche. He is the true definition of a player who played WAY above his usual level for 30 games and got paid. Having a TS% of 47 in your sixth season in the NBA is a total embarrassment. This is the loser you are defending while trashing a guy who has made the most of his opportunity.

When Nick Young gets shot outside a club, goes broke and lives in Verizon Center, gets arrested for soliciting prostitutes and punches a teammate in the face in a nightclub, challenges fans to fist fights after games, then we can start calling him a cancer. The guy likes to joke around in the locker room so he is now a "team cancer". "CHILD PLEASE"

Edited by No Excuses

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Blatche stats improved every year he has been in the league check it. LOL lets get down to stats bro check your boy Nick Young, read the comments. LOL DEFENSE MY ASS

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/hollinger/_/id/3243/nick-young

LOL thats awful was written earilier this year but nothing have changed. Blatche a cancer off the court Young a cancer on the court

"""Young doesn't seem to have any clue how to play defense either. He was eighth among shooting guards in fouls per minute and in the bottom dozen in both blocks and steals. He can jump and he can shoot, which should be a pretty good foundation, but right now he's not an NBA rotation player. """

LOL

Edited by SiCkSoULjA

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TS% is the correct way to gauge Blatche. He's terrible. This is the same guy who begged Yi to let him get a board for a triple-double last year...but yeah, Nick Young is a cancer on the court. LOL

I want Blatche to play well. I'm all for whatever helps his trade value and gets him out of DC. He's awful and needs to go.

Edited by RonArtest15

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I am not even a Blatche fan but him compared to Nick Young production wise isn't even close. I know everyone hates Blatche because hes a douche and I agree on teh douche part but hes much better than Young in every sense. Young has 1 good defensive game vs Wade and everyone is ready to call him the best defensive player on the team are you serious?

---------- Post added April-5th-2011 at 12:33 PM ----------

When Nick Young is in position to beg some one for 1 rebound or 1 assist short of a Triple Double let me know I'll be waiting because the end of the world is coming

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Put me in the NBA and increase my minutes on a steady basis over my career and of course my numbers would go up. What a concept! Have you ever bothered to look at his efficiency percentages?

You know who was always good at getting steals and not committing fouls? Gilbert Arenas. He is also one of the most garbage defensive guards I have ever seen. Only idiots use raw data available on NBA.com to base their opinion on players. Basketball metrics are much more complicated than some obvious ****ing numbers available on a site that's supposed to cater to the casual NBA fan.

Quoting a poster (Nate33) from another Wizards forum who compiled Nick's metric stats. Though I have a feeling this might be too complicated for you to understand and you'll simply reply with "LOL YOUNG SUX DUDDEEE"

Okay, I did a little more work to get us some better numbers. Hoopdata will give you the average PER by position. So I looked at each position, taking only guys with 30 or more games played averaging 25+ minutes to make sure I had primarily starters. (I had to lower the criteria to 20+ minutes played for centers because only 18 centers average 25 or more minutes.)

Here are the PER averages for the starters at each position:

Position - PER - # of players that meet the criteria.

PG - 17.28 - 33

SG - 15.49 - 27

SF - 15.17 - 26

PF - 18.44 - 31

C - 16.01 - 27

So Young's PER of 15.3 is almost exactly average among the 27 players who qualify as "starters" at SG. Incidentally, if you arrange the SG's in order by PER, he ranks 12th.

Just out of curiousity, I decided to see how Young's increase role in the offense affected his team. Is Young taking additional shots from low-percentage shooters like Blatche and therefore improving the offense?

CODE: SELECT ALL

Here are the per-game numbers pre-trade:

Player PTS FGA FTA 3PA FG% FT% ToR eFG% TS% PER

young,nick 13.6 10.7 2.8 3.6 .465 .831 .217 .527 .570 17.0

blatche,andray 17.1 15.2 4.3 0.6 .441 .802 .138 .447 .499 14.7

wall,john 16.7 14.3 5.1 2.8 .407 .818 .215 .439 .506 17.5

hinrich,kirk 10.5 8.4 2.3 2.5 .463 .852 .911 .515 .563 12.8

mcgee,javale 9.8 7.1 2.9 0.1 .565 .609 .095 .565 .584 19.2

thornton,al 9.4 8.6 2.8 0.9 .428 .707 .822 .436 .482 10.6

booker,trevor 4.5 3.5 1.2 0.0 .514 .720 .286 .514 .553 12.8

arenas,gilbert 17.3 15.7 3.2 6.9 .394 .836 .969 .465 .505 14.1

And post-trade:

Player PTS FGA FTA 3PA FG% FT% ToR eFG% TS% PER

young,nick 20.7 17.4 4.3 4.6 .442 .808 .587 .496 .538 14.6

blatche,andray 15.0 14.1 3.8 0.1 .423 .804 .392 .423 .474 15.1

wall,john 13.6 12.3 4.5 1.5 .402 .712 .561 .419 .473 14.2

hinrich,kirk 11.7 9.9 2.2 2.2 .443 .900 .797 .489 .536 15.1

mcgee,javale 8.8 6.7 2.3 0.0 .543 .623 .400 .543 .565 15.6

thornton,al 7.2 5.3 1.8 0.2 .534 .822 .146 .538 .589 13.9

booker,trevor 3.3 2.6 0.9 0.0 .544 .565 .484 .544 .557 13.0

lewis,rashard 13.2 11.0 1.8 4.3 .465 .844 .089 .531 .560 13.9

Essentially, Young is taking 7 extra shots per game. Considering he is a starter and plays most of the time alongside other starters, I'd estimate that 1 of Young's additional FGA's is coming from Blatche, 2 are from Wall, and 4 are from Arenas. Basically, Young is taking shots that would have otherwise come from a .499 shooter, a .506 shooter, and a .505 shooter and instead shooting them at a .538 clip with fewer turnovers.

Given the context, I don't think the dip in his TS% is all that alarming at all. He's doing much better than the other guys who were taking those shots.

Young's defense?

Young's counterpart PER at the SG position is 10.6. That's an insanely low number. It wouldn't surprise me if he led the league. It's even more impressive considering the team defense is so bad that the average player posts a PER of 16.3 against us (rather than the league average of 15).
I note that he improves the team's defense by 3.6 points per 100 possessions this year. He improved the team's D by 1.3 points last year and 6.9 points the year before that. That statistics we have available suggest that he's a pretty good team defender.

And we're talking about a shooting guard here. It's not like he's being asked to routinely collapse in the paint to get weak-side blocked shots like a big man would. For the most part, good team defense from a SG means that you stop your own man from penetrating and you rotate out on the perimeter to challenge three points shots when your teammates have left their man to cover someone else. Nick Young does both of those things very well.

I'm not saying he's an elite defender or anything. He could certainly get better on the defensive glass. (He ranks 29th in DRB% out of 37 guards between 6-4 and 6-6 who have played 800 or more minutes.) I just wonder why it's so hard for him to shed this label that he's a poor defender when 3 years of data indicates otherwise.

The silver lining is that hopefully people will continue to perceive of him as a bad defender and refrain from offering him a large contract.

Here are the defensive rebounding rates of a few shooting guards;

Terry 5.7

Jamal Crawford 6.0

Eric Gordon 7.0

Monta Ellis 7.7

Raja Bell 7.9

OJ Mayo 8.6

Brandon Roy 8.8

Richard Hamilton 9.1

Nick Young 9.2

KMart and Ray Allen 9.6

I like that you focused on defensive rebounding. Young's job is not to crash the offensive glass. If he did so, he might boost his rebounding numbers a bit, but he'd sacrifice a few fast breaks to make it happen (a la Javale McGee). I don't mind his anemic offensive rebounding numbers one bit. The key is that his defensive rebounding numbers aren't really THAT bad.

Yeah Nick is such a cancer on the court. :ols::ols::ols:

Nobody is calling Nick an elite player. He is a pretty good role player who does what a SG is supposed to. Not really sure what is so hard to understand about this.

Edited by No Excuses

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Those where Hollinger stats brother man Blatche's PER destroys Youngs get out of here with that garbage

Of greater mystery is his total inability to rebound. Young is 6-6 and can jump, but he ranked second to last among shooting guards in rebound rate. Among those who outrebounded him were Ben Gordon, J.J. Redick, Luke Ridnour, Jason Williams, Aaron Brooks, Mike Bibby and Carlos Arroyo.

Hollinger

LMAO Bibby, Arroyo and Ridnour and Jason Williams

Edited by SiCkSoULjA

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Big men will generally have a higher PER than guards because of rebounds/blocks/steals and other things they are able to contribute that guards cannot. Not a genius concept smartass.

Of course you didn't read anything I posted. Knew it. Oh well, it will at least be informational to the other smart posters who have been contributing in Wizards threads for years now. Every forum always has to have the resident retard. You are doing a good job of satisfying the role.

By the way, Young rebounds better than Bibby, Brooks, Arroyo, Gordon, Reddick and Jason Williams. Hollinger hasn't updated his site in a while. Jokes on you.

Edited by No Excuses

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This guy is averaging 1 assist per game while throwing up almost 20 thats all this resident retard needs too know. That says it all right there

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Yet no one is claiming that Young is a good passer. But after every baseless claim of yours got shot down, you need something to whine about so feel free.

The hilarity of your argument is that you are finding loop holes in a role players game. The guy does some things on the court exceptionally well, is average at best at some and is putrid at others. Basically a role player. What a ****ing concept. Only if every player in the NBA did everything exceptionally well, we would have All Star games every night!

Edited by No Excuses

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I said it was updated earilier in the year Nick Young is getting 10+ more minuntes than those guys and hes averaging 1 more rebound if that LOL. You are fighting loop holes I said from point blank what is he doing to help your team other than throw up shots? NOTHING

You know someone is in there feelings when they start to result in personal attacks. Stick to your "facts" pro stick to the facts.

Edited by SiCkSoULjA

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from SM's breakdown, he sounds more like a Lamar Odom type, which can be a very powerful asset to have as long as you're not counting on him to be "the guy"

In my opinion Lamar Odom is a worst case scenario with Perry Jones....I see him more as a better shooting, more athletic Bosh

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Only in DC can we have an argument about two bums.... :ols:

Honestly, if we had to keep one of the two, I am in the Nick Young camp.

Edited by MLSKINS

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I guess this is my problem with this whole argument. Young is not a bum. He is practically the definition of a role player.

A "bum" is someone like Blatche who just by being on the court hurts the team. If he played within his limits, meaning not chucking at piss poor efficiency to his hearts delight, then he wouldn't get classified as one. If we wasn't such a moron off the court, then this might not even be a debate.

Whatever though. I really shouldn't expect casual fans to be fully aware.

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I can understand Blache have rubbed everyone the wrong way with this stupid off court acts, but talent wise he's a much better NBA player. I am a huge Wizards fan man HUGE thats my only team theres nothing casual about me, I have been watching the Wizards since they were Bullets son, step back and no your role youngsta.

I would respect allot of your comments but everything you say is two faced. You say Blatche needs to play within the offense but Young does? no No NO

If Perry Jones can add 10+ pounds too that tiny frame then he can be a beast, he gets pushed around too much.

Edited by SiCkSoULjA

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