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The Official Washington Wizards Thread: The JOHN WALL ERA

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Cleveland's traditionally been a dead zone. It's kinda funny that Lebron got their hopes so high, blew their heads up so big, and then left them for dead. Remember how much **** Cavs fans used to talk? **** Cleveland

Take this for what it's worth...

Report: Irving leaning towards entering draft

Posted by Matt Moore

Posted on: April 1, 2011 9:33 am

Kyrie Irving had a great season for Duke. That you can say that considering he missed almost the entirety of the season with a foot injury shows you just how good he was. When Irving returned for the NCAA tournament, there was concerned he would be rusty. Instead, he was his usual brilliant self. Duke's early exit from the tournament thanks to Derrick Williams and company for Arizona was the only thing stopping a fairytale story. But having missed so much of the season, would Irving want to wait to assure himself the top pick? Would the likely lockout prevent him from making the jump to the pros this soon?

Apparently not.

ESPN reports that Irving is "leaning strongly toward declaring for the NBA Draft." With Jared Sullinger stating publicly and emphatically that he's returning to Ohio State, it would pretty much be down to a two-man race for the No. 1 overall pick in the draft. From there it would really just end up as a question of need for the team in the top spot.

The lockout complicates matters here. If Irving does declare, he'll be drafted before the current CBA expires, but will not have his contract negotiated until after the lockout. So the question of whether he'll be under current or new salary structures for rookies is unclear. An interesting note, however. NBA players are paid on various calendars, but in most cases, rookies don't receive their first check until November. So should a lockout extend for six months, say until the beginning of 2012, Irving would only really lose two paychecks in that scenario, as opposed to six.

Irving has the complete package. Prior to the summer of 2010, Brandon Knight was considered the top freshman point guard and expected top overall pick. But Irving absolutely exploded in summer play, and then showed even more on the national stage at Duke. He's at an elite level in terms of touch, speed, agility, handle, and play-making ability. He doesn't have John Wall's vision, but he has a better jump shot to start. He's a total package, provided that his foot checks out after a physical.

Should the Cavaliers land the top spot based off what will be the worst record in the league, it's easy to see them passing on Irving. Not only do they have salary tied into Baron Davis and Ramon Sessions, but going for a big is the more traditional route. The Kings, however, would likely love to find Irving available. That scenario could lead to Tyreke Evans moving to small forward, creating a devastating lineup of Irving, Marcus Thornton, and Evans, with DeMarcus Cousins down low. That's Thunder 2008 stuff.

Irving could still decide to return next season, should his foot have issues, draft evaluations come back lower than expected, or Coach K pulls some Magic, again. But with Austin Rivers as widely acclaimed entering the season, the logical choice is to make the jump, take the money now, and ensure a high pick. Irving looks every bit the next NBA star.

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No Barnes and Sullinger. I think Irving could return as well.

Sucks for us, but man how blown are the Cavaliers. Lose a generational talent and then get rewarded in a draft that lacks a player who projects to be a true #1 franchise player.

Derrek Williams is the answer.

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I'm now starting to think with our 1st 2 picks if we came away with

1. Enes Kanter

2. Tyler Honeycutt

those 2 picks would be huge for us as Honeycutt can develop into a very good SF IMO and with our 2nd 1st rounder would be a great move

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Just finished the game.

This is the NBA, every team makes a run, and the Wizards survived it and won the game. Stop whining!

Are you watching all the games? It's an ongoing thing. Fall behind, beast 2nd quarter, come out of halftime and get destroyed.

I love how people take the good game Blatche has three times a month and acts like it wipes out the other 5 1/2 years of his career. Yup, you got me there :rolleyes:

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Jimmer and Kemba should cash in on all these guys coming back. Kanter's draft status is rising as well.

I sure as hell hope Jimmer isn't the next Adam Morrison. Talk about an epic BUST.

---------- Post added April-4th-2011 at 12:18 AM ----------

GAC, Just curious, which guy do you loathe more, Blatche or Lebron?:)

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Are you watching all the games? It's an ongoing thing. Fall behind, beast 2nd quarter, come out of halftime and get destroyed.

I've watched a lot this season and more than just the wizards. I can tell you they aren't the only team with big leads that don't hold onto them. In fact most of the times I see a big lead in the NBA it mostly evaporates. Few teams, on few occasions, jump out to big leads and the game is never again close.

But yes, the wizards seem to be making it the standard scenario. Inconsistency is their only constant.

I love how people take the good game Blatche has three times a month and acts like it wipes out the other 5 1/2 years of his career. Yup, you got me there :rolleyes:

I certainly won't argue that one game wipes out a career but people over react on Blatche both ways. My position is simple, the Wizards aren't a good enough team to ship out scoring and not have a replacement that can match or improve production. We've already tried that when we shipped out Jamison and Butler. Getting rid of him without an upgrade in place will make the team worse and I COMPLETELY disagree that he's the type of cancer that results in addition by subtraction. I haven't seen anything that even approaches that sort of consideration. Inconsistent effort doesn't put you in that category IMO.

The 3 need more attention than the 4 in my opinion.

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OK so now the Wiz don't have to worry about having the worst record in franchise history (19-63) and they won't have the worst road record in NBA history (1990-91 Kings were 1-40 and the 1997-98 Denver Nuggets went 2-39) so for God's sake quick winning already!!!

All we're doing at this point is screwing up our lottery chances.

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I gotta agree with Destino. By a purely positional grading, we might have the worst quality of SF's in the entire league. I'd rather go into the season next year with an OK but reliable player than sign Josh Howard again to watch him miss 60+ games while a bunch of D-league scrubs try to fill the void.

Although, on a BPA basis, I think this team will end up picking a PF.

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My position is simple, the Wizards aren't a good enough team to ship out scoring and not have a replacement that can match or improve production. We've already tried that when we shipped out Jamison and Butler. Getting rid of him without an upgrade in place will make the team worse and I COMPLETELY disagree that he's the type of cancer that results in addition by subtraction. I haven't seen anything that even approaches that sort of consideration. Inconsistent effort doesn't put you in that category IMO.

The 3 need more attention than the 4 in my opinion.

perfect example of why you don't understand the game of basketball or the NBA. This team is 46-112 with Blatche as a starter on the team (I'm not accounting for any games missed via injury) that is absolutely horrible....losing him isn't going to hurt us a bit. You comment on how losing his scoring will hurt us, but you don't mention how losing his lazy play on defense would help us. I agree that Trevor Booker isn't going to average 16 points per game in a season right now, but I bet he'd also give up a lot less points than Blatche.

Blatche is also definitely a cancer in the locker room. He is immature (tweets about meeting fans after the game to beat them up) he is lazy as hell and out of shape. He is basically a worthless human being waste of space.

As far as Jamison and Butler were concerned...they had to go in order to rebuild, which was about two years over due. Jamison makes Blatche look like a super star on the defensive end. It was unfortunate to lose Caron, but a 3rd option swing man making 10 million a year isn't in the cards for a rebuilding team.

Also...you make the claim that 3 is more of a need than 4....I definitely disagree....long term we need help at all positions, but at least we have Rashard Lewis for the next couple years to play the 3....Nick young could also play the 3 if Jordan Crawford becomes a long term answer at the 2, which I'd be willing to bet he does.

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Good to see Blatche get that trade value up.

Precisely.

Let's hope Blatche has a few more games like this to close out the year.

You can't forget about a whole year's worth of lackadaisical effort, offensive inefficiency, poor rebounding, etc. because he closes out the meaningless last ten games of the season strong.

Or six years of boneheadedness for that matter.

Color me skeptical until he gives us an entire season of excellent, team first play. Until that happens, I'm hoping we trade him and get something good out of it.

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Even without the pick that trade would be REALLY lopsided in our favor if it was just Evans and Crawford for Kirk. Evans has been a really great veteran presence and stepped up to the plate with all our injuries. The first is just serious icing on the cake.

Don't forget we got Mike Bibby in it too who we were able to buy out. The deal also saved us a good chunk of room against the cap because Crawford and Evans' contract are miniscule. IIRC, Hirnrich was our second biggest contract after Rashad/Gil at around 8-10 million I think. We bought out Bibby and basically all of that is off the books now. :)

I think it was the most stunningly lopsided trade of the trade deadline and it didn't get a whole lot of press.

BTW, the Rashard/Gil swap was absolutely billiant too. It basically gave us a year earlier to start our window of contention. His contract is going to be the most valuable trade chip we've got once we're set to find that final piece and begin our run during the 2012-2013 season. If the NBA institutes a more restrictive cap in the new CBA, he'll be even more valuable that summer/year.

Plus there are all the intangible and chemistry considerations that were primary benefits of making that deal.

I think Ted's short time since he became the owner has been a series of sweeping successes.

1.) Get lucky in the lottery and get a franchise PG

2.) Get rid of a millstone player/contract for a guy whose max deal comes off the books when you need it to. Plus saddle a contending division rival with an awful contract for which they now have no hope of trading.

3.) Swindle another desperate division rival out of a budding star rookie guard, another first round pick, and 8 million in cap space (and a quality veteran)--all for a redundant and rapidly declining backup PG and a 26 year old lottery pick who was a complete stiff.

4.) Crush your second high lottery pick in the draft?

At this point it wouldn't surprise me if he turns Blatche and Yi into Al Horford or something.

I don't know about you guys, but to me that looks an awful lot like a roadmap/chronology for building a contender.

---------- Post added April-4th-2011 at 11:06 AM ----------

^^ If Barnes is coming back, you have to think that Henson is as well. And I know Marshall probably will. Probably a pretty good move, imo. Barnes came on over the course of the season. But he could use one more year in college to refine his game. And with the guys coming back, they will probably be a favorite to win it all next year.

---------- Post added April-3rd-2011 at 10:59 PM ----------

I think Irving could probably use another year, too. But if he has a chance to possibly go #1, I can't see him turning that away. And he's probably more NBA-ready than Barnes. And the kid from Arizona is definitely ready. What a beast.

I think the iron is hot for Henson. He's a mid lottery pick now because the forward crop is pretty weak and he has the pedigree. He's pretty much salvaged his draft status from last year's disaster of a season.

He'll lose minutes next season to James McAdoo.

Barnes is a fool for going back if draft status was a primary consideration. Sullinger too. They are top 4 locks in this draft class. I doubt they crack the top 5 in next year's group.

Irving's time is now too. He's a top two lock and that means it's time to leave. He could still be the top PG next year, but why risk it? Plus the bad teams might rather take some of those awesome forwards at the top of next year's class. And the international and big man crop should also be a lot stronger next year than this year's group.

Edited by stevemcqueen1

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I'd probably grab Terrence Jones if we can't get Derrick Williams.

Edited by Warhead36

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I'd probably grab Terrence Jones if we can't get Derrick Williams.

After Williams and Irving, the best players in the class will probable be internationals. I like Kanter over Jones. Valanciunas should also be in play. Some of the '91 players will be interesting too.

And I hesitate to say it but I would strongly consider Perry Jones ahead of Terrence Jones. He's the swing for the fences pick. If he works out, you've got a combo forward with elite finishing ability who would CUSH a pick and roll game run by Crawford and Wall. Plus the kid can shoot and has the footspeed of a guard and looks like he's got flubber on his shoes. He's the one with the Blake Griffin potential. He's definitely a beta dog and not of a franchise player mentality. But do we need him to be an alpha/franchise guy? We've got Wall and now Crawford. Jones could find a valuable roll on our team even as a beta dog.

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He reminds me of a Ty Thomas, Marvin Williams type of prospectt. Seems we get one of those every few years. Oh he's young, he's an athletic freak, his body is built for basketball, he just needs to learn the game and put it all together. And it never happens. The fans see flashes of amazing but it never quite comes together (and they eventually go insane from the wait and expectations). And it's just a feeling.

One of the Euros I'm not feeling at all either. Not Kanter or Monfejueas or whatever. I think his name is Vessely.

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Yeah I'm with GACOLB. Jones has all the physical tools but something about him stinks to me. I think we have enough super talented athletes and not enough quality basketball players.

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He reminds me of a Ty Thomas, Marvin Williams type of prospectt. Seems we get one of those every few years. Oh he's young, he's an athletic freak, his body is built for basketball, he just needs to learn the game and put it all together. And it never happens. The fans see flashes of amazing but it never quite comes together (and they eventually go insane from the wait and expectations). And it's just a feeling.

One of the Euros I'm not feeling at all either. Not Kanter or Monfejueas or whatever. I think his name is Vessely.

I'm not crazy about Vesely either. Him or Montiejunas (god that name is obnoxious). Both seem to have a finesse label attached to them and don't have the kind of post game you'd like early on. Valanciunas is an exception for me. He's got genuinely intriguing physical gifts and he's only 18 whereas those other guys are 20.

But I think you're being harsh on Jones with a Ty Thomas comparison. The difference with Jones is that he's got genuine offensive polish whereas Thomas had no offensive skills whatsoever. Jones is an excellent shooter and handler with the slashing skills of a guard. He's got the defensive potential of Thomas too and he and Javale would make it very tough to get your shot off in the paint.

The main thing though is Jones' speed and explosion. Derrick Williams is explosive but he doesn't really look that fast. Jones is fast. If people think Derrick Williams would crush a pick and pop, Jones would be even better. That's such an important part of your half court offense that you almost need a forward who can be that outlet in order to generate a reliable source of scoring.

Plus our transition points would be easy to come by. If you get Jones I'd almost say just put him on the court with Crawford and Wall and NY at the 3 let the four of them run. Seven seconds or less only we could probably play decent defense too. Few teams could handle that speed.

My problems with Jones are that he doesn't seem to have that alpha personality of a go to guy and I don't know how his perimeter defense looks. He's not putting the team on his back and digging out a tough win. But I don't think that's entirely necessary out of our combo forward. Wall is perfectly willing to take on the entire burden of playmaking and facilitating; Crawford has the clutch gene and assumes the burden of taking the big shot; Young is your confident catch and shoot outlet who doesn't mind hoisting a million shots a game and getting matched up on the opponent's best perimeter player on defense. Wall also assumes the burden of leadership so you don't need that from Jones either.

What Jones then becomes is an absurdly gifted finisher with the kind of length and power to average a double double. He's a second above the rim presence alongside McGee who gives us one other elite scoring option on our pick and roll, plus he's got the ability to create his own shot against just about anyone so that's a nice bonus. Jones would be your second or third scoring option depending on who else is on the court at the time (Crawford + Young = top perimeter scorers). Once he hits his prime, I think Jones could definitely be a 20-10 guy.

Jones wouldn't be my first choice. I would have rather had Barnes because the kid has the mind for the game, is a great shooter, and elite perimeter defender. I'd also rather have a true big at the PF position like Kanter. But if we get the short end of the stick and are left choosing between Perry Jones and another second tier forward, I'd probably prefer Perry Jones. He's got more versatility than Terrence Jones.

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He reminds me of a Ty Thomas, Marvin Williams type of prospectt. Seems we get one of those every few years. Oh he's young, he's an athletic freak, his body is built for basketball, he just needs to learn the game and put it all together. And it never happens. The fans see flashes of amazing but it never quite comes together (and they eventually go insane from the wait and expectations). And it's just a feeling.

One of the Euros I'm not feeling at all either. Not Kanter or Monfejueas or whatever. I think his name is Vessely.

no way...Perry Jones is already a good midrange shooter and he can handle the ball....he will be very good and unlike most of the "experts" I think he will contribute right away. If Williams is gone, I'm taking Perry Jones.

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First off...I gotta give props to my dude, SM. He was preaching patience w. Barnes all year and the kid started to live up to expectations. I wasn't too keen on Barnes from the jump, but the more I watched him play...the more impressed I became with his overall game. Honestly, he reminds me of Luol Deng. He'd be a GREAT fit at the 3 for the Wizards. I've always been high on Perry Jones and the one thing that kinda worries me is his lack of a 3pt shot. If we're in a position to draft him (assuming Derrick Williams is off the board), he has way too much upside to ignore. I wouldn't be mad at that selection one bit.

The pick that I am most curious about what we're going to do, is the ATL pick. IMO, having Trevor Booker makes Kenneth Faried redundant. I'd look at someone like Markieff Morris with that pick. A big body who can rebound and play some good post defense. With our selection in the 2nd round, I'd look at adding depth at the PG spot. It's nice that Jordan Crawford can spell Wall at the 1, but having another body at that position wouldn't hurt. McCamey, Norris Cole, and Darius Morris would be nice additions. A lot can happen between now and the draft...so I'll be interested in which way the Wizards decide to go.

*I REALLY think we need to do some sort of NBA draft database for the Wizards like we have for the Skins. That's one of the best threads on this MB.

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No more developmental question marks in the draft. The boom and bust picks are nice when you are picking in the high tens but we can't risk busting out with a top 5 pick. We badly need some kind of an impact player.

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