chipwhich Posted March 6, 2011 Share Posted March 6, 2011 You guys can get happy by Ernie's mediocre moves and call him "great" for building teams that were barely .500. When he builds another sub .500 team, I'll sit here and continue to laugh as people once again call him "great". Vishal you always ignore my posts. The Wizards/Bullets made the playoffs one time in the 16 years before Ernie Grunfeld got here. You haven't even lived long enough to be a suffering Bullets/Wizards fan. You haven't even been a fan of the suck that this franchise is to open up reality in your brain. This is the NBA. The Wizards are consistently one of the worst teams in the NBA. Abe Pollin will ruin/modify how any NBA GM drafts/trades. This team is what it has always been. The only shining light in the last 20 years has been Ernie Grunfeld. But lets play your "if you like mediocrity card" game....here is a clue. NO GOOD GM WITH A HALF A BRAIN would ever want to come to Washington. It is a job nobody wants. And guess what NO FREE AGENT WITH HALF A BRAIN wants to play here. Grunfeld isn't dealing with an even playing field, he is dealing with a hot mess. Which somehow he was able to get the team to 4 consecutive playoffs which hadn't happend in 15 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinfan2k Posted March 6, 2011 Share Posted March 6, 2011 i guess sam presti went to seattle because there were such a good franchise right? now he has okla city on the verge of winning a title. The wizards dont do their HW, thats why they suck. Have they ever identified a young coach or young GM that can take control? No! they had tom T and then let him go and now look what is doing in chicago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipwhich Posted March 6, 2011 Share Posted March 6, 2011 i guess sam presti went to seattle because there were such a good franchise right? now he has okla city on the verge of winning a title. The wizards dont do their HW, thats why they suck. Have they ever identified a young coach or young GM that can take control? No! they had tom T and then let him go and now look what is doing in chicago Kevin Durant...HELLO. I guess the GM was brilliant for turning the Cavaliers around when they had Lebron. WHen has our GM been so lucky? Oh and BTW, Seattles franchise was FAR SUPERIOR to the Washington franchise when he took over. They actually had been to the playoffs and weren't under Abe's thumb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Excuses Posted March 6, 2011 Share Posted March 6, 2011 (edited) I ignore your posts because your constant bashing of Abe as some kind of a monster is 100% wrong. He's not Donald Sterling. He was a man who loved this team almost to a fault and was overly loyal to some people he shouldn't have been loyal towards. Otherwise, he wasn't creating a toxic environment around this team. He ran this team like a mom and pop store, I'll give you that but he wasn't cheap, just misguided. Ernie when he came here had a clean slate to work with. There were some decent prospects already in place (Haywood, Hughes) and the signing of Gilbert was a turning point. After that, the over payment for guys like Songaila, Antonio Daniels etc. was all on Ernie. I'll give you one thing, this place isn't as desirable as some other franchises. Guess what, neither were the Celtics a while ago. Garnett had blatantly refused to play for them multiple times before finally agreeing after Ray Allen joined. Franchises don't become magically good, the management has to play a big role in creating an environment that is desirable. Teams like San Antonio were able to keep a super star like Duncan from leaving because they surrounded him with talent. LeBron left because Cleveland failed to do so. John Wall will leave as well if he continues to play with the crap Ernie Grunfeld is surrounding him with. And once again, you can bash Abe all you want. But just remember, without him, we wouldn't even be having this discussion right now. This is why I take everything you say about Abe with a grain of salt. Edited March 6, 2011 by No Excuses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCchillin89 Posted March 6, 2011 Share Posted March 6, 2011 Which somehow he was able to get the team to 4 consecutive playoffs which hadn't happend in 15 years. Those appearances are overrated. We were barely .500 and playing in the super weak (at the time) Eastern Conference. He traded the 5th for Randy Foye and Mike Miller and threw Gilbert under the bus to cover his own ass because his masterpiece (Saunders Gil/Foye/Caron/Antawan/Brandon) blew up. A monkey could've picked John Wall /debate about Ernie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinfan2k Posted March 6, 2011 Share Posted March 6, 2011 Kevin Durant...HELLO.I guess the GM was brilliant for turning the Cavaliers around when they had Lebron. WHen has our GM been so lucky? Oh and BTW, Seattles franchise was FAR SUPERIOR to the Washington franchise when he took over. They actually had been to the playoffs and weren't under Abe's thumb. +hello russell wesbtrook, serge ibaka, james harden. thats not luck. thats good drafting. Right, MJ had that first round pick in Kwame. What did they do after that? you keep making excuses for the wizards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipwhich Posted March 6, 2011 Share Posted March 6, 2011 (edited) He ran this team like a mom and pop store, I'll give you that but he wasn't cheap, just misguided. You can ignore history if you choose. Abe Pollin was cheap. The Caps and Bullets never had a chance to win because as soon as we got good young players, he forced his GM to trade them away for old washed up, or on the verge of being washed up vets. You don't have to believe me, just track his history. In addition he refused to set up a real front office infrastructure for both teams. The ONLY reason Pollin changed near the end was the absolute embarrassment he suffered over the Michael Jordan fiasco. He changed for two reason. 1. Jordan showed him that the arena could be sold out EVERY night. Jordan showed him what type of revenue a good team could actually produce. 2. He had egg all over his face from what he did to Jordan, running him out of town. He had to do something or lose everything Jordan had built in the season ticket base. Until that point in time, Pollin was a cheap, bad owner. Washington would have eventually gotten franchises. I do give him credit for coming here. He just should have sold the team long before. Edited March 6, 2011 by chipwhich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Excuses Posted March 6, 2011 Share Posted March 6, 2011 (edited) Also, big free agent signings are not the way to look at championship caliber teams. Who was signing with the Celtics? They had to trade for Kevin Garnett and Ray Allen. Who was signing with the Lakers? They had to trade for Pau Gasol. Who was signing with San Antonio? They get quality free agents because the core of their team was drafted and they constantly find role players in the later rounds. You think they would be this good if they hadn't nailed the picks for Tony Parker and Manu Ginobili? The Pistons were built on trades for Rasheed Wallace, Rip Hamilton and Ben Wallace. To think we have sucked because no one wants to sign as a FA in DC is a complete fabrication of what actually happens in the NBA. We have sucked because we never had GM's who made good trades or selected quality talent in the draft. Granted these GM's were he because of Ab'es loyalty but so was Ernie. The best idea for a trade that our brilliant GM had that was supposed to make us a contender was Mike Miller and Randy Foye for a #5 pick. Brilliant! Edited March 6, 2011 by No Excuses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipwhich Posted March 6, 2011 Share Posted March 6, 2011 +hello russell wesbtrook, serge ibaka, james harden. thats not luck. thats good drafting. Right, MJ had that first round pick in Kwame. What did they do after that? you keep making excuses for the wizards. Durantula wasnt there when they picked Kwame. Drafting looks awfully good when you have a cornerstone player doesn't it? Drop Durantulla from their team and see how they perform. I am not making excuses for the Wizards. They are in a league (NBA) where only a couple teams consistently win a championship. A league thats built so that you MUST have a superstar to have a chance at contending. To get that superstar you have to either have luck (Lebron draft), a place where free agents want to play (Miami, New York), or a franchise with history of winning titles (Lakers/Celtics). The Bullets/Wizards don't meet any of that criteria. They will never be anything without luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StillUnknown Posted March 6, 2011 Share Posted March 6, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 +hello russell wesbtrook, serge ibaka, james harden. thats not luck. thats good drafting. Westbrook was a homerun like Durant, and Ibaka has been good, but I actually think Harden was a massive missed opportunity. I think the Thunder would be so much better if they'd drafted Stephen Curry, Tyreke Evans, or DeMar DeRozan instead. I don't think Harden was an example of good drafting. Presti was also fortunate to end up with four top 5 picks in three years. That makes team building a lot easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dukes and Skins Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 Well just thought I'd say its nice watching Barnes showing up like he was expected to do. Last night against Duke he looked like a guy who could be dominant. The thought of him and Wall is one I'd love seeing for a long time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 Well just thought I'd say its nice watching Barnes showing up like he was expected to do. Last night against Duke he looked like a guy who could be dominant. The thought of him and Wall is one I'd love seeing for a long time I like his game. I think he's your second or third best player on a championship caliber team. He's not a franchise guy that can carry a bad team by himself. But he's a key cog. I really hope we get a top three/four pick. I want Sullinger, Barnes, or Perry Jones (probably in that order). I think Kanter could also be a hugely successful pick but I'd be scared to take him. I'd want those knees completely scrutinized. If they checked out alright, then put him at #2 on my wishlist. Sullinger and Kanter could do more to help McGee than anyone else. They're tenacious rebounders and tough, scrappy players who'd allow McGee to just go and play the ball without having to worry about rebounding. They've also got the kind of offensive skills where they can create for themselves in the paint. They'd each be substantial upgrades over Andre Blatche. Barnes will be good no matter where he ends up and he'd be nice as a secondary perimeter scoring option to Young and our top perimeter stopper. He and Booker could be a nice rotation at the SF spot as he's got the athleticism and finesse and Booker as the toughness and strength. Perry Jones has the potential to be an absolute beast of a perimeter defender with his athleticism but something isn't quite there with him. He's the athletic cream of the crop but I want to know why his teams haven't won as much as they should. Then again, I could see him being the type of player that would benefit tremendously from playing with a top playmaking PG who could crush a pick and roll. I really hope we can trade Andre Blatche for a decent draft pick in the first. We already have two picks, and one will hopefully be a top four selection. I hope we'd be able to take Kanter or Sullinger with that one and then move up to around 8-10 for someone like Harrison Barnes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StillUnknown Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 Well just thought I'd say its nice watching Barnes showing up like he was expected to do. Last night against Duke he looked like a guy who could be dominant. The thought of him and Wall is one I'd love seeing for a long time i'd rather see Wall & Sullinger for the next few years although i won't be mad if we come away with Barnes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dukes and Skins Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 i'd rather see Wall & Sullinger for the next few years although i won't be mad if we come away with Barnes I still think Sullinger goes #1 that's why I haven't said him. If we got him though I'd be ecstatic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 Forgot about Terrence Jones. He could be a great pick too and would definitely bring another excellent rebounder into the fold. This is probably the top 8 if the draft were held today: - Perry Jones - Terrence Jones - Jared Sullinger - Harrison Barnes - Enes Kanter - Kyrie Irving - Derrick Williams - Foreign big (Valanciunas/Montiejunas) The only ones from that group that I don't really like for us are Irving and Valanciunas/Montiejunas. Therefore, I think we should try very hard to get two picks in this year's top 8 and try and come away with the best combo of those six players we can. It'd be awesome to get Sullinger/Kanter with our first choice and then take the best SF left of that four man group (Jones/Jones/Barnes/Williams) that drops with the second choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dukes and Skins Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 Steve how do you propose we get that 2nd pick? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 I still think Sullinger goes #1 that's why I haven't said him. If we got him though I'd be ecstatic I don't think he will. I can't remember a player like him ever being taken that high before. The guys he gets compared to the most often were taken lower: Kevin Love: 5th overall Carlos Boozer: 35th overall Luis Scola: 56th overall Paul Millsap: 47th overall Love was seen as a reach at the time he was taken 5th and Sullinger doesn't quite have his array of tools (superb passing skills, deadly 3 point shot). The only reason Sullinger could be taken in the top 3 where Love went 5th is because this is a much weaker class than 2008's. Sullinger just doesn't have the footspeed or general athleticism to be taken first overall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dukes and Skins Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 I don't think he will. I can't remember a player like him ever being taken that high before. The guys he gets compared to the most often were taken lower:Kevin Love: 5th overall Carlos Boozer: 35th overall Luis Scola: 56th overall Paul Millsap: 47th overall Love was seen as a reach at the time he was taken 5th and Sullinger doesn't quite have his array of tools (superb passing skills, deadly 3 point shot). The only reason Sullinger could be taken in the top 3 where Love went 5th is because this is a much weaker class than 2008's. Sullinger just doesn't have the footspeed or general athleticism to be taken first overall. I guess then who do you see going #1? Irving? Jones? Maybe even Kanter? I just think that Sullinger is the more ready to play of any guy thats why I've been saying he'll end up #1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StillUnknown Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 I guess then who do you see going #1? Irving? Jones? Maybe even Kanter? I just think that Sullinger is the more ready to play of any guy thats why I've been saying he'll end up #1 i also think he's by far the safest pick in the draft Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dukes and Skins Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 i also think he's by far the safest pick in the draft That's why I've said #1 for him. Jones has huge upside and can be a monster but he's a guy you draft on potential. Barnes can be a very good scoring #3. Irving as long as healthy could be a great PG but with Sullinger you know your going to get a guy who rebounds hustles and does the little things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 Steve how do you propose we get that 2nd pick? I'd come up with a package of players and our later first round pick. The only guys on the roster I'd attempt to hang on to are Wall, Young, Booker, and McGee. But if I was confident in Kanter and knew I could get him (top 3 choice), I'd put McGee on the block too. Between the enormous amount of cap room we have, plus the desirable contract of Blatche and a few promising younger players like Crawford/Seraphin/McGee, we should have some pretty decent trade chips. The pick in question is likely to be cheap too. GMs don't seem to value this top 8 very highly because of a lack of franchise caliber players. But we've already got our franchise caliber player and the class has a couple of really nice forwards which is what we need. I bet you could move up by taking that Atlanta pick and packaging it with Blatche. Or we could agree to take on a bad contract since we've got a ridiculous amount of room to play with. As far as I can tell, Howard, Jianlian, Evans, Martin, Young, Shakur, Ndiaye are all set to come off the books this offseason and Young is the only one we've really got to spend to extend. Lewis is the only bad contract we've got. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dukes and Skins Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 Well also steve we have the 1st rounder from Atlanta and looking at a few mocks we could still stay there and get someone. I almost would rather go the route of Sullinger then a guy late 1st we could get who could come in right away and be a scorer ala Aaron Brooks was for Houston or even Booker has been for us as a gritty guy who does the little things. We have Seraphin who once he fully develops can be a low post guy. Booker can the #6 or #7 guy and gives a lot of energy and hustle. This draft will be interesting though to see what route we go as I don't see us taking Irving or Knight but outside of those 2 guys we could be going a multitude of ways Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Excuses Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 I wonder if we can get the Piston's lottery pick if we take on a bad contract (similar to what Cleveland did with Baron Davis). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dukes and Skins Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 I wonder if we can get the Piston's lottery pick if we take on a bad contract (similar to what Cleveland did with Baron Davis). Who would be the bad contract then Vish? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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