The Official Washington Basketball Thread: Wizards, Mystics etc

[ixcuincle]

 

[Hersh]

Shep would be an idiot not to trade him this week. You cannot gamble on losing him for nothing next off-season. Start a bidding war now. 

 

 

 

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

As someone who thought Ted took a real subtle (and unnecessary) shot at John on the way out, I find myself smiling at these turn of events. 😏

 

 

 

 

 

[Hersh]

1 hour ago, BRAVEONAWARPATH said:

As someone who thought Ted took a real subtle (and unnecessary) shot at John on the way out, I find myself smiling at these turn of events. 😏

 

 

Players hear the dumb **** Ted says and the shots he takes. Ted is a real thin skinned asshole

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

 

[bearrock]

2 hours ago, Hersh said:

 

Players hear the dumb **** Ted says and the shots he takes. Ted is a real thin skinned asshole

 

Leonsis' biggest achievements are lucking into Ovi and being blessed to own teams in the same city as Snyder.  

[Hersh]

1 hour ago, BRAVEONAWARPATH said:

 

I will be legitimately stunned if Shep and the Wiz don’t **** this up. There isn’t a decision to make by the Wiz now, you have to trade him. 

[Burgold]

8 hours ago, bearrock said:

 

Leonsis' biggest achievements are lucking into Ovi and being blessed to own teams in the same city as Snyder.  

And getting out of AOL at the right time.

[tshile]

8 hours ago, Hersh said:

There isn’t a decision to make by the Wiz now, you have to trade him. 

Right but this basically means they won’t trade him. 

[Going Commando]

The Raptors are the trade partner that makes sense.  #4 > Wiseman and the future picks they can add would be fine.  They also have a ton of unguaranteed money on one year deals this summer.  It's an instance where we could match salaries without taking back any bad money, keep any of those one year deals we actually want, and basically just swap Beal for picks.

 

Cap space is valuable to rebuilding teams.  Being able to make unbalanced trades to get people to throw in draft picks can stack up pretty quickly.  NBA teams get desperate to get out of deals they make with role players within a year or two of signing them.

 

Suggs + Rui + Avdija is an interesting way to start over.  Mobley would be nice too.  Either are vastly preferable to Wiseman IMO.  And most of the mocks have Suggs there at 4.

[Hersh]

The idea of the Raptors trade is a good one if you clear money and have a plan for that money. However, I doubt the Raptors make a trade without an extension for Beal locked in. Even in that case t’s not like they were a good team and just missing one piece. 

[Warhead36]

The Raptors might also be looking to rebuild and probably won't want Beal right now.

[Ball Security]

Putting the potential Beal trade to the slide, who do you want to get at 15.  There are a lot of shooting guards who could land there.  Moody, Murphy, Zaire Williams, Cam Thomas.  But it’d be nice if Jaylen Johnson is available.

[Hersh]

21 minutes ago, Ball Security said:

Putting the potential Beal trade to the slide, who do you want to get at 15.  There are a lot of shooting guards who could land there.  Moody, Murphy, Zaire Williams, Cam Thomas.  But it’d be nice if Jaylen Johnson is available.

 

NM, you mean the Duke kid Jalen Johnson. Pass on him. Duke got a bit better once he left. 

Edited July 26, 2021 by Hersh

[method man]

2 hours ago, Hersh said:

The idea of the Raptors trade is a good one if you clear money and have a plan for that money. However, I doubt the Raptors make a trade without an extension for Beal locked in. Even in that case t’s not like they were a good team and just missing one piece. 

 

Not true. Remember that Masai was the one who took a big swing for Kawhi as a 1 year rental. Toronto can also pay Brad the freakish max he wants because it doesn't seem they are a team that cares a ton about the luxury tax

 

Rodney Hood, Baynes, Chris Boucher, Flynn, Watanbe and #4 for Beal works in the trade checker.

 

- Hood is unguaranteed so you cut him

- Baynes may be unguaranteed as well (different sources say different things). You can cut him too potentially

- Boucher is actually a good player with trade value. You could potentially get a late 1st for him

- Flynn had a solid rookie year and is worth keeping around as part of the rebuild. Could back Suggs up

- You could keep Watanbe as a friend for Rui but doesn't really matter if you keep him or let him go

 

I like both Mobley and Suggs at #4 and think both guys are major building blocks.

[Ball Security]

6 minutes ago, method man said:

 

Not true. Remember that Masai was the one who took a big swing for Kawhi as a 1 year rental. Toronto can also pay Brad the freakish max he wants because it doesn't seem they are a team that cares a ton about the luxury tax

 

Rodney Hood, Baynes, Chris Boucher, Flynn, Watanbe and #4 for Beal works in the trade checker.

 

- Hood is unguaranteed so you cut him

- Baynes may be unguaranteed as well (different sources say different things). You can cut him too potentially

- Boucher is actually a good player with trade value. You could potentially get a late 1st for him

- Flynn had a solid rookie year and is worth keeping around as part of the rebuild. Could back Suggs up

- You could keep Watanbe as a friend for Rui but doesn't really matter if you keep him or let him go

 

I like both Mobley and Suggs at #4 and think both guys are major building blocks.

I don’t have a great grasp of all the nuances with the NBA salary cap.  It looks like Toronto has enough space to take Beal without moving any players.  Why would Hood and Baynes need to be a part of it?

 

Is Suggs, Boucher, Flynn, Watanbe a better return than Wiseman, Wiggins, 7 and 14?

[Hersh]

4 minutes ago, method man said:

 

Not true. Remember that Masai was the one who took a big swing for Kawhi as a 1 year rental. Toronto can also pay Brad the freakish max he wants because it doesn't seem they are a team that cares a ton about the luxury tax

 

Rodney Hood, Baynes, Chris Boucher, Flynn, Watanbe and #4 for Beal works in the trade checker.

 

- Hood is unguaranteed so you cut him

- Baynes may be unguaranteed as well (different sources say different things). You can cut him too potentially

- Boucher is actually a good player with trade value. You could potentially get a late 1st for him

- Flynn had a solid rookie year and is worth keeping around as part of the rebuild. Could back Suggs up

- You could keep Watanbe as a friend for Rui but doesn't really matter if you keep him or let him go

 

I like both Mobley and Suggs at #4 and think both guys are major building blocks.

 

They took a big swing on Kawhi when they were a team that had already won 50-59 games three straight seasons. They would also have to trade significantly more for Beal than the #4 pick in this years draft since the Wiz wouldn't be getting a DeRozan/Green type package back. 

 

So a real trade with the Raptors would be for th #4 pick plus picks that will ultimately be in the 20s. That's far worse than a trade with the Warriors. 

[Hersh]

52 minutes ago, Ball Security said:

I don’t have a great grasp of all the nuances with the NBA salary cap.  It looks like Toronto has enough space to take Beal without moving any players.  Why would Hood and Baynes need to be a part of it?

 

Is Suggs, Boucher, Flynn, Watanbe a better return than Wiseman, Wiggins, 7 and 14?

 

No. Cause Wiggins is an asset that could be traded for more picks. 

 

What would be interesting would be a 3 team trade where Wiggins ends up in Toronto, Beal in GS and the Wiz get a bunch of picks in this years draft plus salary cap space. 

 

 

Toronto gets Wiggins, , #7 from GS

 

GS gets Beal, Thomas Bryant

 

Wiz get Rodney Hood, Baynes, Chris Boucher, Flynn, Watanbe and #4 from Toronto, Wiseman, #14, and 2023 first round pick from GS and 2023 first round pick from Raptors. 


Wiz can waive Hood, Baynes, Boucher immediately and make a big offer John Collins or use those contracts to flip to another team looking for cap relief and willing to pay with draft picks or young players. 

 

Edited July 26, 2021 by Hersh

[bearrock]

Any of the above trade scenario is better than Beal walking for free in a year.  Unless he puts pen to paper before the draft, you have to operate under the assumption that he's gone

[Ball Security]

Saw this proposal on Twitter that was accepted by the trade machine thingy.

Beal - PHI

Westbrook - NY

Wizards get:

Simmons, Thybulle, Toppin, 2021 picks 21, 28, 32.  2023 first and 2026 first.  (Can’t tell which teams the 23 and 26 picks comes from) Frees up a lot of money, but the picks are not impressive.

 

[method man]

1 hour ago, Hersh said:

 

No. Cause Wiggins is an asset that could be traded for more picks. 

 

What would be interesting would be a 3 team trade where Wiggins ends up in Toronto, Beal in GS and the Wiz get a bunch of picks in this years draft plus salary cap space. 

 

 

Toronto gets Wiggins, , #7 from GS

 

GS gets Beal, Thomas Bryant

 

Wiz get Rodney Hood, Baynes, Chris Boucher, Flynn, Watanbe and #4 from Toronto, Wiseman, #14, and 2023 first round pick from GS and 2023 first round pick from Raptors. 


Wiz can waive Hood, Baynes, Boucher immediately and make a big offer John Collins or use those contracts to flip to another team looking for cap relief and willing to pay with draft picks or young players. 

 

 

Wiggins is not an asset. He is an average player at best who is receiving max money. He is one of the worst contracts in the NBA. His contract arguably has less value than Westbrook's. If part of the play is to get cap space to absorb bad short term contracts for picks, taking on Wiggins defeats that purpose. As someone else noted, Wiseman had a sketchy rookie year. On top of that, #7 and #14 are likely role players. Not sure Wiseman, #7 and #14 get you into the top 4

2 hours ago, Hersh said:

 

They took a big swing on Kawhi when they were a team that had already won 50-59 games three straight seasons. They would also have to trade significantly more for Beal than the #4 pick in this years draft since the Wiz wouldn't be getting a DeRozan/Green type package back. 

 

So a real trade with the Raptors would be for th #4 pick plus picks that will ultimately be in the 20s. That's far worse than a trade with the Warriors. 

 

If they bring Lowry back, they could be running with a team that has Beal, Siakam, Lowry, Van Vleet, Anunoby and Gary Trent Jr. Add a legit center with the MLE (or bring Birch back) and you have a nice top 7 with talent only behind BKN and MIL in the East.

[Hersh]

2 minutes ago, method man said:

 

Wiggins is not an asset. He is an average player at best who is receiving max money. He is one of the worst contracts in the NBA. His contract arguably has less value than Westbrook's. If part of the play is to get cap space to absorb bad short term contracts for picks, taking on Wiggins defeats that purpose. As someone else noted, Wiseman had a sketchy rookie year. On top of that, #7 and #14 are likely role players. Not sure Wiseman, #7 and #14 get you into the top 4

 

Stop. A two year contract for a 26 year old that now plays great D and has become a lot more efficient offensively is not one of the worst contracts in the NBA. No one is saying Wiggins is a superstar but you could do WAY worse as part of the needed salary to come back in a deal. 

 

It's like some of you think that Beal is going to get a bunch of top-5 picks. This is not going to be the case. If you want a championship team, at some point you either need to have Lebron James on your team or you need to hit on picks outside the top 5 and outside the top 10. 

[method man]

17 minutes ago, Hersh said:

 

Stop. A two year contract for a 26 year old that now plays great D and has become a lot more efficient offensively is not one of the worst contracts in the NBA. No one is saying Wiggins is a superstar but you could do WAY worse as part of the needed salary to come back in a deal. 

 

It's like some of you think that Beal is going to get a bunch of top-5 picks. This is not going to be the case. If you want a championship team, at some point you either need to have Lebron James on your team or you need to hit on picks outside the top 5 and outside the top 10. 

 

Getting Wiggins back is a net negative. Period. He did better last season in GSW but his track record doesn't give him the benefit of the doubt. If you get him, unless he continues to improve (which I don't see for him in DC), you are only getting the likes of Steven Adams and Kevin Love back in trades for him. The fact that it is this much money tied to one player makes it harder to move him. 

 

For salary filler, getting Hood's unguaranteed contract + Baynes is way better than taking on Wiggins's deal

5 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

The Raptors might also be looking to rebuild and probably won't want Beal right now.

 

It was reported they are open to both routes. Either trading Siakam or trading #4 for Beal or Lillard to make a run

[Going Commando]

2 hours ago, Ball Security said:

I don’t have a great grasp of all the nuances with the NBA salary cap.  It looks like Toronto has enough space to take Beal without moving any players.  Why would Hood and Baynes need to be a part of it?

 

Is Suggs, Boucher, Flynn, Watanbe a better return than Wiseman, Wiggins, 7 and 14?

 

It's better.  Suggs is a better prospect than Wiseman.  Wiggins is negative value in the trade, and 7 and 14 are not particularly valuable picks.  The third tier of this class is a big drop from the six players in the first two tiers of the class.  And Suggs + Deni + Rui + 15 is enough young talent for this year.  You want to stagger your picks some so you don't go too young all at once.  So ideally you get like one or two picks per year for a couple of years in a row rather than four all at once.  The Wizards went too young when they got John Wall back in 2010-2011 when they added six or seven rookies on the roster in about a calendar year.  It made it so they couldn't run functional offense or defense because they had no experience in their rotation.  Nobody who could shoot or play defense at all, which are skills that take time to develop to an NBA level.  And it also didn't help that the vet voices in the locker room were clown princes Gilbert Arenas, Javale McGee, and Nick Young.  Rasheed Lewis had also checked out completely and was just picking up a paycheck by that point.

 

When you rebuild, you need to keep a few role players who know how to play, and you need a credible vet leader who can teach your new franchise building blocks how to work and be pros.  One of the big mistakes we made with Wall was that, by the trade deadline of his second season, he was already the longest tenured player on the roster.  That level of turnover was bad for him and the team.  So if we make the call to trade Beal and rebuild around Suggs, then we should probably keep Westbrook for at least the year and probably keep Bertans too.

 

Anyway, Toronto is capped out but they have a ton of unguarranteed contracts on their cap.  They need to salary match a trade for Beal, but they can do that with those unguarranteed and other one year deals and then we can just cut the players we don't want to keep.  They could cut them too, but I don't know if that gets them fully under the cap to avoid the holds and Beal's big salary, so it makes more sense for them to just salary match.

[Going Commando]

3 hours ago, Hersh said:

 

So a real trade with the Raptors would be for th #4 pick plus picks that will ultimately be in the 20s. That's far worse than a trade with the Warriors.

 

No it isn't.  If Wiseman sucks and you didn't get lucky and hit a grand slam with 7, then the Warriors deal effectively nets you nothing of long term value in return for Beal.  The Raptors trade gets you a significantly better prospect than Wiseman plus some cap space.

 

Wiseman would not go top five in this class, and that's not factoring in his poor rookie season and his injuries.  When you do factor those in, I'm not sure he goes top ten.  Young high draft picks who struggled as rookies are massively depreciated assets.  They are worth less than draft picks themselves.

That's why there will be such a push to get a Beal trade done before draft night.