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The Official Washington Wizards Thread: The BEAL & BRODIE ERA


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Man Ves wont even be in the league in a year.

 

He's looked like everything but a legit NBA player so far. However I still can't shake the feeling that he'll leave us and go someplace else and do pretty well. Remember Rasheed Wallace, Rip Hamilton, etc.? I don't think Ves is as good as any of those guys but I don't think he's nearly as bad as our inept player "development" has made him look either.

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Man Ves wont even be in the league in a year.

 

He's looked like everything but a legit NBA player so far. However I still can't shake the feeling that he'll leave us and go someplace else and do pretty well. Remember Rasheed Wallace, Rip Hamilton, etc.? I don't think Ves is as good as any of those guys but I don't think he's nearly as bad as our inept player "development" has made him look either.

 

Meh....with Sheed and Rip, you at least knew they had talent or had shown flashes of their potential.  Ves - just not sure what to make of him.  I highly doubt he'll go elsewhere and make the Wizards wish he was still on the roster.  I'll give him another 2 years max in the league and then he'll bounce back to Europe. 

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He was 21 when he was drafted. Considering how much they stress skills like ball handling and shooting in Europe, the fact that he sucks at both speaks to his work ethic.

 

That he still can't do it two years into his NBA career is pretty indicative that he's lazy and not interested in making a career in this league.

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Man Ves wont even be in the league in a year.

 

He's looked like everything but a legit NBA player so far. However I still can't shake the feeling that he'll leave us and go someplace else and do pretty well. Remember Rasheed Wallace, Rip Hamilton, etc.? I don't think Ves is as good as any of those guys but I don't think he's nearly as bad as our inept player "development" has made him look either.

Yea... i remember them. They we never bad in the first place. Nobody is making Ves look bad other than himself. Ill be honest and admit that i thought most of the players we have shipped off would blossom elsewhere.

This includes Crawford, Arenas, Jamison, Stevenson, and Mcgee. I really thought they would turn it around after leaving. I was wrong. Ive never even for one second had this feeling about Ves. Hes a world class volleyball player who got lucky when EG completed his offseason youtube scouting report.

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One thing in Vesely's defense is, he gets some crappy called fouls against him based on reputation and not based on if he actually fouled the guy. Typical NBA bullcrap. Half the fouls they've called him for in the two games shouldn't have even been called.

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It was funny watching the NBAtv feed, hearing Buck and Phil and the two not lining up...at all.  

 

Glen Rice Jr. flashed to me.  He looks like a nice back up # 2 that will be able to come off the bench and get points at the pro level.  And it is frustrating to watch the Wiz brass take a natural # 3 like Otto Porter and force him into the wrong situation in his first time playing pro ball.  What will this do for his confidence?  So ****ing stupid. 

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One thing in Vesely's defense is, he gets some crappy called fouls against him based on reputation and not based on if he actually fouled the guy. Typical NBA bullcrap. Half the fouls they've called him for in the two games shouldn't have even been called.

 

I'm not sure I agree. Even though he has decent instincts on defense, he's out of position a lot which leads to him fouling. I'm not sure he's visible enough to gain any kind of reputation among league officials.

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One thing in Vesely's defense is, he gets some crappy called fouls against him based on reputation and not based on if he actually fouled the guy. Typical NBA bullcrap. Half the fouls they've called him for in the two games shouldn't have even been called.

 

I'm not sure I agree. Even though he has decent instincts on defense, he's out of position a lot which leads to him fouling. I'm not sure he's visible enough to gain any kind of reputation among league officials.

Wasn't it one game that they called him for 6 fouls in under 10 minutes of play in a game last year?  I don't get many games, so I didn't actually see it, but I think someone in here mentioned it during the season.  That's absurd even for the NBA.  Yesterday's game, the last foul they called on him as the Knick drove the lane was all ball. 

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One thing in Vesely's defense is, he gets some crappy called fouls against him based on reputation and not based on if he actually fouled the guy. Typical NBA bullcrap. Half the fouls they've called him for in the two games shouldn't have even been called.

 

I'm not sure I agree. Even though he has decent instincts on defense, he's out of position a lot which leads to him fouling. I'm not sure he's visible enough to gain any kind of reputation among league officials.

Wasn't it one game that they called him for 6 fouls in under 10 minutes of play in a game last year?  I don't get many games, so I didn't actually see it, but I think someone in here mentioned it during the season.  That's absurd even for the NBA.  Yesterday's game, the last foul they called on him as the Knick drove the lane was all ball. 

 

With Vesely, they could have been legitimate fouls. Vesely's issue is that when beat on defense, his first instinct seems to be to foul. He has to learn how to recover when beat. Of course the only way to do that is to be allowed to play through his mistakes.

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I'm sure the national media writing article about Porter struggling is great for the kids confidence.

 

http://espn.go.com/nba/dailydime/_/page/dime-130714/daily-dime

Otto Porter Searching For His Game In Vegas

 

LAS VEGAS -- What's the deal with Otto Porter? Or rather, what is Otto Porter? That's what the Washington Wizards are trying to find out. What they've discovered so far: The third overall pick has a long way to go, and he needs to become more forceful, quickly.

 

 

To say that the highest draft pick playing in Las Vegas has underwhelmed in his first two summer league contests might be an understatement. He has gone a combined 7-for-26 from the floor (27 percent), 0-for-5 from the 3-point line, and has attempted only three free throws in his 59 minutes of action, missing two.

 

 

The main culprits have been a lack of assertiveness (Porter tends to get lost in the corners); weakness with the ball (you see Kent Bazemore rip the ball from his mitts in the first game?); and a misaligned jumper. If the Wizards partially drafted Porter to add to the shooters in John Wall's cadre, they now need to find him some range.

 

 

According to Porter, his main issue is where to be on the floor. "Just the spacing of the court," he said. "You're always spaced out, pick-and-roll action. I'm just learning where to move to, where to go and not to go."

 

Maybe I'm soft on players but I think coaches and GMs should look to put guys in positions where they succeed immediately and build off of it. Not intentionally put them in difficult situation hoping that by falling on their faces they'll improve. That thinking rarely seems to work and often has the exact opposite effect.  

Does Porter have the handle to be a point forward? I haven't seen enough of him to know.

 

No.  He's not entirely unable to dribble the ball like Chris Singleton but he's not a ball handler that can create for himself or others off the dribble.  He's also not terrible quick or strong which makes trying to break down a defender off the dribble that much more difficult.

Edited by Destino
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Let me just say...RealGM is filled with a bunch of morons.  Folks declaring Otto a bust after TWO summer league games is straight up laughable.  He's playing with a bunch of bums right now and is out of position.  We'll really see him thrive when playing up-tempo with both Wall and Beal.  He's going to also benefit from the floor spacing and b-ball IQ of guys like Nene/Okafor.  Judging him off of what he's doing playing along side Sundiata Gaines and Marquez Haynes is a joke.  I'd like to think that we had better posters (on RealGM) than folks getting caught up in the moment, but I guess I'm wrong.

 

*I hope Ves can continue his strong play.  The early returns have been encouraging.

Yes it is. I don't even read the game threads. They're comically knee jerk. I stay here to post about the games themselves. Smaller community, no stupid posters bogging down the collective IQ of the discussion.

They were calling Beal a bust and Jeremy Lamb the truth based on summer league last year. I'm just like, how have you not figured this out yet? Summer league isn't about winning. It's not about putting up numbers. It's all about experimenting with your young guys and getting them to work through the things your practicing in a game-like format. Teaching concepts. Focusing on the process and nevermind about the results.

That's why they've been playing Porter at SG IMO. They want to see if he takes to the position at all and if so, then you can play him like we played Ariza and Martell last year. I don't think the coaches could care less what his shooting percentages are. I bet all they want to see is him run the offense correctly.

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They haven't had a lot of practice time together. So they aren't able to run a lot of set plays. Reminds you of street all at the Y. I watched both games and Porter definitely needs to get stronger. But I thought he looked nervous in the first game. Looked a little better in the second game.

Yeah it's really just a glorified game at the Y. It's like the round robin tourney games we used to do at my summer basketball camps when I was a kid. Minimal structure, teams slapped together haphazardly, just running up and down and having fun. You don't get to do a lot of teaching beforehand I'm guessing. So the coaches probably just give them a few things to work on and tell them to focus on doing those things right. Otto is going to make the team, so he really doesn't have to do anything other than what the coaches are giving him to work on--sounds like a bunch of off ball movement for the wings is what they gave him. My guess is they're trying to get him up to speed with the role Martell played last year, which involved playing from both wing positions.

It's the bubble guys looking for a job on the end of some NBA roster who really have to be sharp and try and get results.

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I'm sure the national media writing article about Porter struggling is great for the kids confidence.

Maybe I'm soft on players but I think coaches and GMs should look to put guys in positions where they succeed immediately and build off of it. Not intentionally put them in difficult situation hoping that by falling on their faces they'll improve. That thinking rarely seems to work and often has the exact opposite effect.

Otto is a pretty grounded kid. I don't think he'll get rattled like Ves did. Ves's main loss of confidence came from not getting PT. I think Otto will play. I think he'll command minutes because he's good.

I'd also guess a lot of Ves's problems with confidence are compounded by being foreign. It's gotta be so tough to adjust to a whole new culture while simultaneously adjusting to the big jump in competition. Must be tough to get on the same page as your team when you can't even confidently speak the language. Who are Vesely's friends on the team? Seems like he's pretty isolated.

I understand what you mean about helping a player take the training wheels off by giving him a few limited things that he's already good at so he can have some early success and build confidence from that.

But I don't know that summer league makes a difference for that. I just don't think it's impactful. JaVale used to dominate summer league and then he'd come into the year just as oblivious as ever.

Since we're experimenting with him, what I wouldn't mind seeing though is Porter play some PF. He should have a comfort level there too since that's where he thrived last season at GTown. I want to see if he can play some PF early because if he can, that means he can basically totally assume Ariza's role. Then you could deal Ariza for anything this season and not worry about taking a significant step back in the short term.

No.  He's not entirely unable to dribble the ball like Chris Singleton but he's not a ball handler that can create for himself or others off the dribble.  He's also not terrible quick or strong which makes trying to break down a defender off the dribble that much more difficult.

Yeah I don't see him being a point forward because he's not a threat to drive all the way to the rim as the point man. His drives are going to be like Beal's and Martell's and Ariza's--perimeter drives where he catches the ball and gets a step on the defender from that. Most of the time, posting up is a better option for Otto than the drive and I'd say his back to basket game is actually pretty great for a 19 year old.

But, I do think he's a useful passer that can run some offense from the top of the key because of that. I could definitely see him developing a nice two man game in particular with his ability to pass and cut off the ball. He's very crafty about finding the space within a defense to operate.

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I think Porter and Beal are not the type of players that look good during summer league whereas guys like JaVale are. Porter and Beal are guys who learned to play within a system and all of their production comes within the framework of structured, NBA style basketball.  These are guys who get theirs withing the flow and never really seem to take over and dominate the ball.

Who is going to sit there and run a set play where they feed Otto the ball in the high post and let him work through three or four different moves and counters before he takes his shot?

 

ku-xlarge.gif

 

 

Who is going to be running Beal off multiple screens to get him a good look? It's so unstructured, you're really just improvising mostly.  That's not their wheelhouse.

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Destino - Kyle Weidie is a Wizards blogger.  He's the one who wrote the piece on ESPN.  His blog is great (TruthAboutIt), by the way. 

 

I also agree w/ SM....I don't have a problem with putting Otto at the 2 during SL.  We know he's going to be our eventual starter at the 3, so why not see if there is anything there with him at SG?  I remember a few years back, Memphis trying OJ Mayo at the 1.  It didn't work, but that's what SL is for.  Experimentation. 

 

Otto's confidence is going to be fine. 

 

*edit*

 

Coincidentally, I JUST came across this article:

 


NBA Summer League: Otto Porter's struggles are more expected than startling

 

Take a deep breath, everyone....LOL

Edited by RonArtest15
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I read somewhere they're going to try Otto at PF now.  I think they're seeing how ready he is to take over Ariza's role.  If he shows he can grasp the offensive role of each spot plus defend that position, then you've got to think the FO will be more comfortable dealing Ariza this year.  If he doesn't look like he can handle minutes at those positions this year, then I'd think the FO will probably hang on to Ariza this season unless something good comes along.

 

Of course I doubt you can get all of that just from SL games.  But it's at least a start.

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And it is frustrating to watch the Wiz brass take a natural # 3 like Otto Porter and force him into the wrong situation in his first time playing pro ball.  What will this do for his confidence?  So ****ing stupid. 

 

Porter has spent 2 summer league games experimenting.  When Kevin Durant was drafted, the Sonics played him at Shooting Guard for an ENTIRE SEASON.  2 summer league games will do nothing adverse to Porter's confidence.

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And it is frustrating to watch the Wiz brass take a natural # 3 like Otto Porter and force him into the wrong situation in his first time playing pro ball.  What will this do for his confidence?  So ****ing stupid. 

 

Porter has spent 2 summer league games experimenting.  When Kevin Durant was drafted, the Sonics played him at Shooting Guard for an ENTIRE SEASON.  2 summer league games will do nothing adverse to Porter's confidence.

Hope you're right.  Unforunately the Wizards have NO track record of developing young players.  Hopefully he's good enough to overcome the Wizards "management" and coaching. 

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Porter has spent 2 summer league games experimenting.  When Kevin Durant was drafted, the Sonics played him at Shooting Guard for an ENTIRE SEASON.  2 summer league games will do nothing adverse to Porter's confidence.

Kevin Durant didn't have a problem with athleticism and speed. Also he's Kevin friggin Durant. Otto Porter isn't expected to be an allstar, let alone a superstar.
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Porter has spent 2 summer league games experimenting.  When Kevin Durant was drafted, the Sonics played him at Shooting Guard for an ENTIRE SEASON.  2 summer league games will do nothing adverse to Porter's confidence.

Kevin Durant didn't have a problem with athleticism and speed. Also he's Kevin friggin Durant. Otto Porter isn't expected to be an allstar, let alone a superstar.

Otto doesn't have a problem with athleticism.  He actually tested well at the combine.

 

And Durant isn't a dominant athlete either.  He's incredibly long and incredibly aggressive.  And he's fluid.  But he doesn't have a great body and he's not a speed merchant or super explosive talent.  He's more in the smooth rather than explosive category with guys like Beal and Porter.

 

Most of what sets Durant apart is his incredible skill level and his instincts.  That coupled with his height and length.  He truly has once in a generation scoring instincts and aggressiveness and shooting ability.

 

Otto definitely does not have those things.  But I actually do expect Otto to be an All Star.  The league has Durant, Melo, and LeBron.  But there is a big drop off after those three.  The state of SF league wide has quietly gotten shaky.  The good SFs from before 2003 like Shawn Marion and Ron Artest are aging out of the league.  Durant is the only surefire all star that's come in since 2003.  You've had a lot of busts and weak classes at the position that really hurt the level of young quality at SF and you're going to really feel the effects of it when Melo and LBJ decline:

 

- Luol Deng is pretty weak as the best SF from 2004

- Marvin Williams is a huge bust from 2005 and Martell Webster busted too

- Adam Morrison was a giant bust in 2006 and Rudy Gay was a disappointment

- Jeff Green was a disappointment from 2007

- Michael Beasley and Joe Alexander were giant busts from 2008

- 2009 was a very weak SF year where the first SF taken was Earl Clark at pick 14

- Wesley Johnson was a huge bust in 2010 and Al Farouq Aminu hasn't come close to living up to his potential

- 2011 was another weak SF year, DWill is kind of a tweener, though more of a PF.  And he's been a bust so far regardless.  The first actual SF taken was Kawhi Leonard at 15, and though he's been good, he's not an All Star.  Not yet anyway.

 

I think Otto Porter is actually the best true SF prospect since Durant.  He and MKG were actually the two highest drafted SFs since Durant so that's not necessarily a strong claim.  I think he ends up being an All Star, in part because he should be good, but mostly because the competition from the players in his generation isn't great.

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  • BRAVEONAWARPATH changed the title to The Official Washington Wizards Thread: The JOHN WALL ERA
  • Destino changed the title to The Official Washington Wizards Thread: The BEAL & BRODIE ERA

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