The Official Washington Basketball Thread: Wizards, Mystics etc

[Destino]

Guard play if impressively bad. Is Mark Turgeon coaching this team?

[Destino]

The Knicks have passed the ball to Vesely more often and more accurately than his own team mates.

[SuperBash]

Summer League ball is so damn sloppy.

[Renegade7]

I'm trying to get into this summer league ball, but I only recognize 4 players and the others look like they're going to be bagging grociers soon. This cluster**** basketball play is teeth grinding, I kinda just have in on in the other room now, waiting for the preseason and checking in from time to time.

Edit: for those who actually watched this game, what did you think of Vesly? Heard he did the damn thing today.

Edited July 14, 2013 by Renegade7

[Burgold]

Didn't see any of it, but I don't really get why it should be so sloppy.  Are these still supposed to be the top 10% basketball players in the world?  Hasn't every player on the court been playing bball since grade school and most of them been in these farm programs their whole life?  Maybe it's because the players aren't used to each other, but they played high school and college ball, right?  They should be very good even if not NBA caliber.

 

I watch the NCAA sometimes even division II and it looks like a game.  Shouldn't these guys be able to at least do that?  I mean at the worst it should function like a second rate all star game, right?

Edited July 14, 2013 by Burgold

[No Excuses]

Most of the fringe players are trying to impress scouts etc. Lots of shot jacking.

[RonArtest15]

Wizards not doing guys like Ves, Singleton, GRJr., or Porter any favors with the PGs they have on this SL roster.  My goodness is the guard play awful. 

 

Ves, FWIW, showed some encouraging signs. 

 

Destino was right...the seasoning GRJr. had in the D-League is really showing.  He's going to get regular minutes.  It's VERY early, but I like the return so far. 

 

Porter - more impressed w/ his defense than what he showed on offense.  He's going to be the perfect 3rd option playing along with Beal/Wall, so I'm not going to be overly critical of what I'm seeing on the offensive end from him thus far.  The awful guard play is hurting him. 

[StillUnknown]

Wizards not doing guys like Ves, Singleton, GRJr., or Porter any favors with the PGs they have on this SL roster.  My goodness is the guard play awful. 

 

Ves, FWIW, showed some encouraging signs. 

 

Destino was right...the seasoning GRJr. had in the D-League is really showing.  He's going to get regular minutes.  It's VERY early, but I like the return so far. 

 

Porter - more impressed w/ his defense than what he showed on offense.  He's going to be the perfect 3rd option playing along with Beal/Wall, so I'm not going to be overly critical of what I'm seeing on the offensive end from him thus far.  The awful guard play is hurting him. 

 

Vesely was making jumpshots last summer league. I need to see it from him when the games count. That said, he hasn't stunk so far so the lowest of possible measuring sticks has been met.

[RonArtest15]

Wizards not doing guys like Ves, Singleton, GRJr., or Porter any favors with the PGs they have on this SL roster.  My goodness is the guard play awful. 

 

Ves, FWIW, showed some encouraging signs. 

 

Destino was right...the seasoning GRJr. had in the D-League is really showing.  He's going to get regular minutes.  It's VERY early, but I like the return so far. 

 

Porter - more impressed w/ his defense than what he showed on offense.  He's going to be the perfect 3rd option playing along with Beal/Wall, so I'm not going to be overly critical of what I'm seeing on the offensive end from him thus far.  The awful guard play is hurting him. 

 

Vesely was making jumpshots last summer league. I need to see it from him when the games count. That said, he hasn't stunk so far so the lowest of possible measuring sticks has been met.

 

LOL...my expectations for Ves are so low that any sign of life he shows is encouraging....

 

No joke, I'll be happy if he can become a 10mpg backup 5.  We just need something from him....

[Destino]

It's sloppy because the guard play is crap, they don't really practice, and the goal isn't winning.

[Thinking Skins]

I was most impressed with Ves. He looks bigger than last year (just looking at his arms). he still has problems hanging onto the ball, especially with grabbing rebounds, and with fighting for space in the paint.

I don't know how to judge Singleton. I mean, he started off the game well and even went to the line (8-8). I Problem is he just disappeared after that. He was getting a lot of turnovers too, but a lot of that was with him trying to do things like dribble which he shouldn't be doing and won't be doing in a real game.

Rice took shots and I don't know whether he's being told to be like Crawford or if that's just a character trait of his. But hopefully he works within the flow of an offense.

Porter was good on defense and I thought he had some nice shots, just needed more lift on some of them.

I felt like everybody suffered by the piss poor guard play. I mean balls were getting literally just taken from them, they were making bad passes, balls going out of bounds, hitting people in the wrong places, etc. It'll be a lot different with Wall and co at the point.

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

Watching the game on the DVR now. For those who watched, did the Larry Johnson interview make anyone else feel old as hell? ****...

Anyway, good to see my boy Vesely stepping up. As SU noted though, Vesely was dropping jumpers in last year's summer league so don't jump on the bandwagon with me (I'm going down with the ship, **** it) quite yet.

[Destino]

Vesely hit jump shots last year... And then Wittman benched him everytime he'd miss one during the regular season.

Here is the thing that really just pisses me off. How long does a draft PF/C get to develop? 4-5 years. Longer than perimeter players usually. They are given coaches, strength trainers, minutes, and plays are run for them. Just about the only thing that thy have to do on their own is rebound and hustle.

Vesely and Singleton are not used to playing PF/C. They were thrown into it because the team needed bodies after just one season at SF. They are now in a make or break year, something Grunfeld has implied strongly to the media and in doing so increasing the pressure.

Is there anyone that thinks this will work? It's almost intentionally designed not to work. If they wanted these guys to work out they'd limit what they ask of them. Perhaps demand that they develop a baseline shot and maybe a free throw range shot from one other spot. Build around that and go from there.

Edited July 15, 2013 by Destino

[CrypticVillain]

Man, all I know is that watching yesterday's and today's game is that Porter, Rice, and Vesely are going to be fine.

 

Singleton needs to be worried if he will get any playing time this year. I just don't see anything from him for me to get excited about.

[Hersh]

Summer league means as much as football preseason games. It's all meaningless.

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

Summer league means as much as football preseason games. It's all meaningless.

Eh, I think it means a bit more than the NFL preseaon. In the NFL, a majority of the players will be on the opening day roster and for them the major goal is really to just simply not get injured.

In the NBA summer league, save for teams top 3 of 4 prospects (at most), most of the guys playing are desperately battling for a spot on someones 15-man roster. Some summer league teams don't even have a lock prospect. You have ENTIRE rosters fighting for recognition and a shot. Potentially their one and only shot.

Even with the top, roster-lock prospects, for most of them this it is the first time they've been coached by their team in a game environment. Teams can start developong and molding their guys for the roles they're going to want them playing when ish gets real. And ontop of that, teams can start getting a real sense of if they botched the draft or not.

That said, if you are just simply refering to the score and winners/losers, then yeah, it's right up the NFL preseason alley. I mean damn, you can't even foul out. I forget who it was* but some recent high draft pick had a game a couple of days ago where he played 12 mins, scored 12 points and had like 8 or 9 fouls.

*(If anyone knows who I'm talking about, please post. Racking my brain and it's starting to bother me that I can't remember. One of the bigs thiough. I know that foul number is hardly unheard of in the summer league, but it was one of the major draftees. That's why it was mentioned at all on Sportscenter (almost want to say Bennet, maybe even Drummond from last year).

Edit: Did I really just write a five-paragraph reply comparing the NFL preseason and NBA summer league? This very moment might be the slowest time in the entire sports year: Moinday, July 15th, 3:08 EST

Edited July 15, 2013 by G.A.C.O.L.B.

[Thinking Skins]

Vesely hit jump shots last year... And then Wittman benched him everytime he'd miss one during the regular season.

Here is the thing that really just pisses me off. How long does a draft PF/C get to develop? 4-5 years. Longer than perimeter players usually. They are given coaches, strength trainers, minutes, and plays are run for them. Just about the only thing that thy have to do on their own is rebound and hustle.

Vesely and Singleton are not used to playing PF/C. They were thrown into it because the team needed bodies after just one season at SF. They are now in a make or break year, something Grunfeld has implied strongly to the media and in doing so increasing the pressure.

Is there anyone that thinks this will work? It's almost intentionally designed not to work. If they wanted these guys to work out they'd limit what they ask of them. Perhaps demand that they develop a baseline shot and maybe a free throw range shot from one other spot. Build around that and go from there.

 

I get what you're saying here, but it should also be noted that (1) Vesely fouls at an abnormal rate that makes it almost impossible for him to get consistent minutes. I mean the guy plays 3 minutes and gets 4 fouls. How can you develop anybody with rates like that?

 

The other thing (and yeah Wittman's quick hook upsets me at times too) is that the players haven't shown much to build on either. I mean players with McGee's athleticism are given that time to develop because teams see that the reward will be the development. But for a player like Singleton who doesn't have an offensive skillset at any position, but might be better suited at PF than SF, you give him a try. If Singleton was showing the promise of a Seraphin we'd be a lot more excited about him. Heck, if he showed the hustle of Booker we'd be more excited about him. As it stands though, he's just another guy and why should we invest 4-5 years in just another guy?

[velocet]

Edit: Did I really just write a five-paragraph reply comparing the NFL preseason and NBA summer league? This very moment might be the slowest time in the entire sports year: Moinday, July 15th, 3:08 EST

 

Yes you did just write that.  And you should always be encouraged to do so.  Put it this way:  I recall an old sig of yours that featured a photoshopped  pic of LeBron's head on a crab's body, making light of his crab-walk; and also an exhortation to others to join in a discussion elsewhere to "hate on LeTravel".  I've been reading the NBA postings on the board for a while now because frankly they are high quality and they are my best path to keeping up with these matters. 

Sux for me but NBA has been squeezed out of my priorities as far as watching anymore.    Oh there are other options: the Post (columnists etc have to make noises along the lines of justifying continued employment and they talk at not with their audience, no thanks) ESPN (superficial platitudinous yammering fast-break quick-hit commercial plagued "we'll be right back" dreck, no thanks) etc.   But heck,  I'd always found that the best perspective and analysis about basketball came from fellas down the street and around the way even well before access to talking via internet (cases in point your 5-graph exposition I'm replying to and Thinking Skins summation of the Grunfeld administration on the  previous page and RonArtest's contributions- good stuff).  It's a nice arrangement.  Y'all  have your fun AND provide a public service to those of us who are "time-impaired".  

 

 

velocet

[Hersh]

Edit: Did I really just write a five-paragraph reply comparing the NFL preseason and NBA summer league? This very moment might be the slowest time in the entire sports year: Moinday, July 15th, 3:08 EST

 

I should rephrase. It's always good for the young guys to get practice, but it's meaningless to try to draw any conclusions as to whether a guy will meaningfully contribute to the team next year beyond being at the end of the bench.

[Going Commando]

I think Summer League means less than the NFL preseason. Summer league games are basically glorified pick up games at the Y. It's all about experimentation and trying to work in some concepts in a scrimmage-type format, experimenting with goofy **** like playing Otto Porter at SG for example. It's pretty much just for the young players and coaches and a few absolutely die hard fans at home with nothing better to watch that day.

NFL preseason games are done up like NFL regular season games with everyone there and in uniform and there is a lot of excitement and tons of people show up at the stadium to watch. And it's what the coaches use to confirm their decisions about the final cuts. It's right before the season and it gets people into the groove. Summer league is months before the NBA season and only involves a couple of guys who will actually make the roster.

I'd say it's equivalent to the NFL rookie mini camps and optional OTAs that happen right after the draft.

[Going Commando]

IMO the biggest takeaway from summer league for fans is watching the dunks. You get to see guys who probably won't play 200 minutes next season use their springy young legs to make cool dunks they'll never be able to pull off in an NBA game. I saw a clip of Mason Plumlee go coast to coast and use a Dwight Howard style spin move before making a contact dunk. I saw another one of Reggie Jackson street ball style splitting a double team before throwing down on some SF or other that actually made a good contest on the play.

Remember all of the alley oops from JaVale and Wall a couple seasons ago? That's literally all I can remember from summer league recently.

[NO iD=A-Ok]

Jan looking like a Dirk/Marc Gasol hybrid...

 

And Otto P worst player ever?

[RonArtest15]

Let me just say...RealGM is filled with a bunch of morons.  Folks declaring Otto a bust after TWO summer league games is straight up laughable.  He's playing with a bunch of bums right now and is out of position.  We'll really see him thrive when playing up-tempo with both Wall and Beal.  He's going to also benefit from the floor spacing and b-ball IQ of guys like Nene/Okafor.  Judging him off of what he's doing playing along side Sundiata Gaines and Marquez Haynes is a joke.  I'd like to think that we had better posters (on RealGM) than folks getting caught up in the moment, but I guess I'm wrong.

 

*I hope Ves can continue his strong play.  The early returns have been encouraging. 

[Skin'emAlive]

Man Ves wont even be in the league in a year.

[pjfootballer]

They haven't had a lot of practice time together. So they aren't able to run a lot of set plays. Reminds you of street all at the Y. I watched both games and Porter definitely needs to get stronger. But I thought he looked nervous in the first game. Looked a little better in the second game.