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The Official Washington Basketball Thread: Wizards, Mystics etc

BRAVEONAWARPATH

By BRAVEONAWARPATH
in The Tailgate

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nuposse87

nuposse87

Posted
Posted (edited)
nuposse re: Barnes & Granger,

I can't find anywhere confirming Granger's current weight, 228 is usually what google comes up with. If we assume Barnes bulks up, that is attainable for him, but I'd rather that be later in his career as his game is predicated more on wing production. I'm going to to just address the Pau points because I don't vehmently disagree with your granger comments.

Re: Pau, I think you're underestimating him. We have a lot of bigs, but not a single one of them are close to as good as Pau. Nene + Pau would be one of the best front courts in the game. Not only that, we'd be trading off some of our current front court players to get Pau, which would clear the deck for him. Either Okafor or Nene would pretty much be a necessity in any trade for Pau because of his contract.

Wrong, Pau's best basketball is behind him. This is fact. Pau also has the luxury of playing next to the 2nd best center in the game. While I love seraphin I won't put him in top 10 consideration yet even with his stellar production in March/April. If such a trade were to occur, Okafor would be shipped out, Nene/Gasol would give us maybe 1/2 year window of being decent.

Pau is also a skill player. He's going to be highly effective for a long time. He also doesn't have to be ball dominant to be effective, just like Nene. I wouldn't worry about his age. Our problem is his contract. He's only got two years on it and at this point, it's really hard to see someone like him signing an extension to stay here.

Offensively he has 1/2 years of ability left. Our frontcourt defense would be atrocious though.

We also have John Wall at point. He's a factor in all of this. He can score nearly at will from the perimeter and create opportunities for Pau in the same way Kobe Bryant did. It's not like Kobe is a particularly good shooter.

Stop. In no way or shape in form, can you compare Kobe to Wall. I love wall's potential, but the only thing he does well enough right now is transition points and pretty damn good defense. I want to believe Wall will get better with his J, but until we see it, we have to assume it will be no where near how Kobe was when he was making his 2nd title runs.

Getting an All Star big trumps the perimeter player just about every time. We can fill out the wings with replacement caliber shooters like Cartier Martin and still easily make the playoffs with a potential All Star big combo of Nene & Pau and Wall running point. From a basketball perspective, Pau would massive upgrade our team.

He wasn't an all star last season, he won't be one now. If he gets elected to one it is because fans voted him in. He isn't a top 5 big...Guys I'd take before him: Howard, Dirk, Griffin, LMA, Love, Hibbert, Bynum, M. Gasol, Horford, Cousins...then it gets fuzzy, yah he doesn't make my top 10 even.

The problem is from a team building perspective as I see it. Pau is not sustainable growth. He'd be gone in 2 years and we're not ready to seriously contend in that window. We'd blow what would be our last remaining high lotto pick in that time for something that wouldn't last long enough for us to grow as an organization.

Even if Pau did stay, would you want a 34 year ol gasol? Younger players will be stronger and more athletic than him. He'd be relegated to be a pick and pop player with mediocre at best defense.

One thing I will say though, the needs of the current roster need to be accounted for in the decisions we make because our enormous investment in John Wall is in danger of becoming stagnant. We need to make moves that facilitate Wall's development into a Superstar first and foremost. That means finding good shooters to be his running mates in both the short and long term. Third year means it's getting awful close to fish or cut bait time for Wall.

The whole point of having an elite PG is to take most of the burden of offensive creation off of positions 2-5. We will always be a team that relies heavily on spot up shooting because Wall is so damn good at creating opportunities for those around him. We need guys who can convert on those opportunities, much more than we need guys who can put the ball on the floor and work magic. Wall isn't a spot up shooting point like Kyrie. He is much less potent working off ball unless its running cuts to the basket for finishes at the rim. Plus there isn't a soul in this class that comes close to being as dangerous a threat to get to the rack as John is.

John does need to learn to finish better at the rim, although I think he gets shafted by the refs : /

It's entirely possible that Harrison Barnes is a better Washington Wizard than Michael Kidd Gilchrist--even if MKG is a potential All Star for some other team. The guys have to fit best within our team structure long term.

to go along with the theme of what kind of ball we can play. I see us becoming Memphis east honestly. Grind it out games with elite D. While seraphin and nene are not the same as marc and Z-Bo I think we can get better wing and bench play than them depending on this draft.

Edited by nuposse87
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GameWinner

GameWinner

Posted
Posted

Holy crap, David Griffin and Chris Grant are miracle workers they way they are playing all you people!

THE CAVALIERS WANT NO PART OF BRAD BEAL. I GUARANTEE IT. Unless he slides to 4 (not happening) they won't take him!

They want MKG or Harrison Barnes. I guarantee it. They set the smokescreen that they want Beal, raising his value and making MKG slide to them. Its brilliant. And it worked. The next two days will be filled with rumors about this but at the end of it all, it'll be 1. Davis, 2. Robinson, 3. Beal, 4. MKG

MKG and Irving played HS bball together and MKG would be great with Kyrie. They were able to stretch the floor some this year as it is, and wouldn't build around a PG-SG combo. They will do PG-SF-PF/C once they draft one next year or with the 24 pick. #endrant

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Going Commando

Going Commando

Posted
Posted

Anyone have an ESPN insider account?

ESPN the mag asked the players on teams who they would draft. Who was the player they asked on the Wizards and what did they say?

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft2012/story?id=8093492&_slug_=nba-draft-espn-magazine-holds-fourth-players-only-mock-draft&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnba%2fdraft2012%2fstory%3fid%3d8093492%26_slug_%3dnba-draft-espn-magazine-holds-fourth-players-only-mock-draft

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NO iD=A-Ok

NO iD=A-Ok

Posted
Posted (edited)

They asked Singleton. He said he would go with Harri Barnes

"We feel like he can play the 2 or the 3, and that's what we need help with," says Singleton. "We know he can shoot, and with the Wizards being more of an open offense, people can't focus on him; he'll fit right in with us." (Barnes scored 17.1 ppg and shot 36 percent of 3-pointers.)

Edited by NO iD=A-Ok
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Going Commando

Going Commando

Posted
Posted
They asked Singleton. He said he would go with Harri Barnes

"We feel like he can play the 2 or the 3, and that's what we need help with," says Singleton. "We know he can shoot, and with the Wizards being more of an open offense, people can't focus on him; he'll fit right in with us." (Barnes scored 17.1 ppg and shot 36 percent of 3-pointers.)

Thank you. His reasoning makes sense.

I'm still not crazy about the idea of Barnes at the 2 because I think he's slow for that role and ball handling will be an issue. But he's got the mentality of a 2 guard, and like Samuels said, Barnes at the two means our lineups would be gigantic.

---------- Post added June-26th-2012 at 06:03 PM ----------

I was thinking to myself that this team really needs a stretch four in addition to whatever wing we take at 3.

One perimeter player isn't enough to properly space a floor and I'm not sure Singleton or Vesely will ever have the range of skills to do it.

I think we could benefit offensively from dealing Booker for a shooter like Sullinger. Three man big rotation of Sully, Nene, and Seraphin with Okafor just a temporary stop gap.

Problem is Sully can't guard anyone except slow centers.

We really need Vesely to improve as an offensive player IMO. Vesely is our answer to guarding opposing stretch fours, which makes him tremendously valuable on that side of the court. We really need him to become a complete player.

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Chachie

Chachie

Posted
Posted

My personal list of who I hope we take at #3...

1. MKG- Love his spirit, strength, mentality. He's a better on fit on paper in Cleveland but I think he's a star on any roster. Most upside IMHO.

2. Barnes- So well-rounded. I think he's the most polished player at #3.

3. In a perfect world he is what the Wizards lack. My problem with him is potential. I don't see as much of it with him as I do with MKG and Barnes.

4. Trade down for Austin Rivers. :)

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SuperBash

SuperBash

Posted
Posted (edited)

Brad Beal went 19th to Orlando, dayummmmmm

---------- Post added June-26th-2012 at 08:14 PM ----------

Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA

Detroit has traded Ben Gordon and a protected future first-round pick to Charlotte for Corey Maggette, league sources tell Y! Sports.

One SF on their team, Jamario Moon. If they stay at 2, I'd think they'd almost have to take MKG or Barnes.

Edited by SuperBash
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nuposse87

nuposse87

Posted
Posted
Brad Beal went 19th to Orlando, dayummmmmm

---------- Post added June-26th-2012 at 08:14 PM ----------

Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA

Detroit has traded Ben Gordon and a protected future first-round pick to Charlotte for Corey Maggette, league sources tell Y! Sports.

One SF on their team, Jamario Moon. MKG time?

Well...they can still drop to 4, and get MKG as long as Ernie has **** for brains. Cha has a good deal here IMO, especially if they play small ball. Kemba, Gordon, Henderson, T-Rob, and Biyombo is an OK start for them.

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SuperBash

SuperBash

Posted
Posted
Well...they can still drop to 4, and get MKG as long as Ernie has **** for brains. Cha has a good deal here IMO, especially if they play small ball. Kemba, Gordon, Henderson, T-Rob, and Biyombo is an OK start for them.

Damn you quoted me quick

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nuposse87

nuposse87

Posted
Posted
how would MKG help our team? Seriously I know he is good, but he will not be beneficial to the team. Ariza is very good at defense, so is singleton so don't bring that up, we need an offensive win player. Which MKG is definitely not

Ariza is mediocre in all facets offense. C. Singleton's issue is that he can only knock down WIDE open 3s. Chris is an OK defender but he still needs to show a lot more on that end IMO. Ariza is a good defender but he is upgradeable. MKG's only weakness as far as I'm concerned is 3 point shooting. He is good enough at slashing and ball handling where he can overpower smaller 3s. He plays excellent defense and his hustle would be unmatched on our team.

---------- Post added June-26th-2012 at 09:08 PM ----------

Damn you quoted me quick

Yah I came here to post the Gordon stuff and saw your thing...maybe I should lay off this thread for a while, I'm becoming far too anxious in how we'll **** things up, lol

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Going Commando

Going Commando

Posted
Posted
Brad Beal went 19th to Orlando, dayummmmmm

That's cold. I wouldn't be surprised if nobody had heard of him/saw him play at all. Florida didn't play on TV often and Beal was completely anonymous during the season except to draft nerds. I'm pretty sure I was the first person to mention him in this thread and it wasn't until 3/4ths of the way through the season. Even then, me and Gator Bait were the only ones who actually cared about him during the year.

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SuperBash

SuperBash

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Posted

If Trevor Ariza and Chris Singelton is the reason thats holding us back from taking a talent like MKG, then thats a pretty ****** reason.

---------- Post added June-26th-2012 at 09:21 PM ----------

That's cold. I wouldn't be surprised if nobody had heard of him/saw him play at all. Florida didn't play on TV often and Beal was completely anonymous during the season except to draft nerds. I'm pretty sure I was the first person to mention him in this thread and it wasn't until 3/4ths of the way through the season. Even then, me and Gator Bait were the only ones who actually cared about him during the year.

I kind of fall in love with SG during the college season and follow them. I made it a point to watch Harden a few years ago at ASU and I kept talking up Beal going into the tourney, telling people to take FLA to at least the sweet 16 because of their matchups and Beal was going to play really well and he did. Last year I followed Lamb but didn't really like him much as a potential pro, too lanky for me in terms of the pros but it wouldn't surprise me if he proved me wrong.

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Skins199021

Skins199021

Posted
Posted
If Trevor Ariza and Chris Singelton is the reason thats holding us back from taking a talent like MKG, then thats a pretty ****** reason.

no it would have been like the skins drafting a DE instead of a QB in this past draft. MKG cannot shoot his jumper is worse than Rondo's and Wall's coming out of school.... much worse his form doesn't even look remotely right.

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SuperBash

SuperBash

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Posted
no it would have been like the skins drafting a DE instead of a QB in this past draft. MKG cannot shoot his jumper is worse than Rondo's and Wall's coming out of school.... much worse his form doesn't even look remotely right.

I would draft much differently as an NFL GM than an NBA GM. Plus, QB is a position that trumps all in terms of drafting. Not even a fair comparison.

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Going Commando

Going Commando

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Posted
I kind of fall in love with SG during the college season and follow them. I made it a point to watch Harden a few years ago at ASU and I kept talking up Beal going into the tourney, telling people to take FLA to at least the sweet 16 because of their matchups and Beal was going to play really well and he did. Last year I followed Lamb but didn't really like him much as a potential pro, too lanky for me in terms of the pros but it wouldn't surprise me if he proved me wrong.

Beal's game doesn't really have any wow to it. It's all gritty board and defensive work and good mechanics and smart, efficient play.

He probably isn't a very good one on one player at all and probably doesn't pop in all star formats. The players know who the talented and flashy guys with huge skills are. Beal's game is only excellent in the context of team basketball.

Also Beal doesn't jump out at anyone physically. He doesn't really have one single above average physical attribute to hang his hat on--size, strength, bounce, quickness.

Go back in NBA history and almost every HoFer and perennial All Star had at least some sort of elite physical attribute. Even Larry Bird had his length. The only guys that jump out to me as being very average/below average physically are like Charles Barkley. In today's game I'm only coming up with Kevin Love, and he was similarly underrated in the draft. These are players who have to win with IQ and guile and skill.

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SuperBash

SuperBash

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Posted
Beal's game doesn't really have any wow to it. It's all gritty board and defensive work and good mechanics and smart, efficient play.

He probably isn't a very good one on one player at all and probably doesn't pop in all star formats. The players know who the talented and flashy guys with huge skills are. Beal's game is only excellent in the context of team basketball.

Also Beal doesn't jump out at anyone physically. He doesn't really have one single above average physical attribute to hang his hat on--size, strength, bounce, quickness.

Go back in NBA history and almost every HoFer and perennial All Star had at least some sort of elite physical attribute. Even Larry Bird had his length. The only guys that jump out to me as being very average/below average physically are like Charles Barkley. In today's game I'm only coming up with Kevin Love, and he was similarly underrated in the draft. These are players who have to win with IQ and guile and skill.

Yeah I don't think he'll be a big star, I just love to find a SG to watch in college every year haha. Beal was my pick this year. My heart wants the Wiz to pick him but my head tells me MKG. In the end, there are many ways to go, I just hope Ernie doesn't f my draft night up like 09.

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Going Commando

Going Commando

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Posted

I wish we'd just won the damn lottery. Davis is a game changing PF. He and Wall could grow into a juggernaut. With them you'd be solving the two most important positions with transcendent type talent.

---------- Post added June-26th-2012 at 10:07 PM ----------

Yeah I don't think he'll be a big star, I just love to find a SG to watch in college every year haha. Beal was my pick this year. My heart wants the Wiz to pick him but my head tells me MKG. In the end, there are many ways to go, I just hope Ernie doesn't f my draft night up like 09.

I'm the opposite. My heart wants me to pick MKG or Drummond but my head is telling me Barnes or Beal.

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No Excuses

No Excuses

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Posted

You mean Charlotte was able to get a 1st round pick for taking on a ****ty contract while giving up an expiring contract in return?

@sam_amick: "According to source, the pick is lottery protected next year, top 8 in 2014, No. 1 protected in 2015 and unprotected in 2016"

So yeah... some of us were crazy right? For demanding that we get a lottery pick in return for giving up Shart's expiring which was immensely more useful than Magette's expiring?

****ty GM strikes again. Got outdone by the Charlotte Bobcats. :ols::ols:

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