The Official Washington Basketball Thread: Wizards, Mystics etc

[Going Commando]

Vesely will be able to find a role for a team for a while. He's a seven footer that can run and leap with an excellent BBall IQ.

People are seriously undervaluing him. Same thing happened with Seraphin last season. Vesely knows how to play.

---------- Post added June-23rd-2012 at 11:10 AM ----------

Defense gets undervalued because its so invisible. Vesely has the best defensive potential on the team by far. And he's already a high quality finisher. If he ever learned to shoot, he'd be an extremely valuable 3 or stretch 4.

If we draft Beal, I think Vesely becomes our starting SF down the line. If we draft MKG, I think Vesely becomes our sixth man down the line.

[StillUnknown]

http://www.bulletsforever.com/2012/6/23/3112792/wizards-hornets-trade-emeka-okafor-trevor-ariza

Pretty good interview with a Hornets blogger on the deal, lots of insight on Okafor & Ariza as players.

[Destino]

Those saying Vesely will be out of the league... Could you explain why Niick Collison is 8 years deep in the league with no plans of retiring? Vesely simply needs to hit the gym and learn to set screens and he'll be in the league for a decade. I'm not saying gain starting center weight, just enough to provide length in a "small" lineup and because of his speed and finishing someone will always pay him,

That IMO is his floor.

Edited June 23, 2012 by Destino

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

Those saying Vesely will be out of the league... Could you explain why Niick Collison is 8 years deep in the league with no plans of retiring? Vesely simply needs to hit the gym and learn to set screens and he'll be in the league for a decade. I'm not saying gain starting center weight, just enough to provide length in a "small" lineup and because of his speed and finishing someone will always pay him,

That IMO is his floor.

um...so we used a 6 pick in the draft for Nick Collison? Point is, I didn't feel like he had a place on this team. Granted, I've said before that I believe that picks after #5 are worthless, but I just don't see a place for him

[nuposse87]

Collison would be his floor. Having a competent big man that plays within himself is needed on all playoff teams. The beauty is that Jan's offensive game is a jumpshot away from being a very effective big man in this game. I still think he can add a bit more to his frame but my only concern is about his athleticism. If he develops a jumpshot Seraphin and Jan could be our starting 4/5 of the future when Nene starts to decline. There are a lot of hypotheticals in that, but if seraphin improved that dramatically It isn't unreasonable to expect some level of improvement from him. Oh and Jan could definitely play the 5 when are forced into playing small ball against teams that try to use that to their advantage.

[Going Commando]

Where do you all see this franchise headed by 2014? What do you think our goals are in that period of time? What will the roster look like? What will the players on it be like? What will the league be like?

My own take is that we're gearing up for a run in 2014/2015. I think that's the purpose behind the Airza/Okafor deal--getting veterans who help us win in the short term whose contracts expire by that summer.

If we keep our players together, I think we'll be on the upswing at that point.

I think we'll go after a big time free agent that summer or the next summer and my guess is DeMarcus Cousins. Summer of '14 has the potential to be the best and deepest FA class in NBA history. A lot of teams will be making huge changes at that point and the landscape of the league will shift again like it did in the summer of '10. I think we go after Cousins and keep Wall and that's the foundation we use going forward. Filling out the roster at that point will be an aging Nene, Vesely, and our first round pick this summer (and the one from next summer too).

League-wide, I think we'll be in the heart of the peace according to LeBron and Durant. Rose and Howard will be a factor in there somewhere too. If Brooklyn gets Howard to come play with DWill, they'll be a true contender. If Chicago lands Howard, they'll be the best team in the league. If Dallas gets both DWill and Howard, they'll be a contender.

I think the Paul-Griffin experiment in L.A. will be coming to a close. The Clippers will find a way to **** the golden goose up, Paul will opt out of his deal and go somewhere in free agency causing Blake to then leave so he doesn't waste his career.

The Lakers will find a way to stay relevant. They'll probably get Chris Paul just in time to go on a serious run with him and Bynum. Maybe Boston will too. San Antonio will never truly be bad. The Jazz and the Rockets will also hang around as constant playoff fixtures. Phoenix will be in sorry shape once Nash leaves/retires.

Minnesota will be one of those exciting but middle seed teams in the West with a ridiculously potent offense but they'll be so horrible defensively that they'll never actually contend. Kind of like Phoenix during the D'Antoni era.

The Carmelo/Amar'e/Lin/Chandler core in New York will go down in flames and one or both of Amar'e and Melo will be free agents that summer. Indiana and Philadelphia will both be stuck in basketball purgatory barring a really bold trade or acquisition or some sort of unforseen leap from Evan Turner. Maybe Philly makes it out with a Carmelo Anthony for Iggy swap.

New Orleans will be a terrific team and a competent distributing PG away from gearing up for contention.

We'll fit into the picture as a playoff team and fringe contender if we manage to keep Wall and sign Cousins and draft either Beal or MKG. We'll be exciting as hell and physically dominant but a bit knuckleheaded. We'll overwhelm with talent occasionally, but be plagued by inconsistency at costly times that keep us from beating the Heat and Thunders of the NBA. We'd be able to go toe to toe with them for a while though through sheer talent.

A core of Wall, Beal, Vesely, Cousins, and Seraphin is actually really nice. Versatile, defensively strong, offensively diverse, athletic, and young. I could see that being third seed in the East caliber.

That's where I see us in two years.

[nuposse87]

Long term goals are contingent on how Wall develops. We make the playoffs easy this year if Wall develops a solid Jumper. I think as long as we can do that with relative ease, wall will opt to stay with us. If that doesn't happen, we're looking at another rebuild or we may be forced to trade Wall. I'm going to be optimistic and say he actually learns how to shoot. Assuming our core improves at a steady rate and we are able to draft Beal we should be at least, a playoff team. I think you are underestimating Sacromento as well (although they may end up moving to seattle, who knows). I think with Cousins/Thompson frontcourt coupled with Isiah and Thornton, they're SF away from Keeping cousins.

Lakers will still be a playoff team next year barring injuries. This works to their disadvantage as they aren't contenders anymore and won't suck enough to garner good pieces to build themselves up again unless they swindle a team with an incompetent GM... prolly gonna be us lol. They'd actually be best served amnestying kobe, but they prolly won't.

Portland's rebuild should be relatively quick, the Jazz are Steve Nash away from being contenders, and Minn. should bounce back into contention for a 6-8 seed playoff spot with Rubio back in the fold. I expect the best teams in the west to be OKC and Mem. I think if memphis can manage to stay healthy one entire season and actually learn to play together, they won't have the kind of incompetent collapse they had against the clipps this year. NY is a wild card, that team could be good depending on how Lin orchestrates it and if Amare can regain 2010-11 form. IF and a big IF, the Nets land D-12 and Deron, they should give more problems in the east.

I see boston rebuilding next year, too many OLD veterans. KG, rondo, Bradley are the best players they have. Pierce looked terrible in the ECFs. I think the Clipps are less productive less year as flopping will finally be penalized, they're going to actually have to play real defense and not a single player on that squad outside of Paul and Caron are capable of that.

If we make a couple deadline trades by mid season we should be looking like this:

Wall/JC

K. Martin(expiring)/Beal

M. Williams/C. Singleton/Crowder

Booker/Jan

Nene/Serapin

Seeing as how we'd have some cap space I'd look to trade Booker+Singleton for the best Pic possible, because we need to be honest, we won't be able to retain Wall, Seraphin and Booker. I'd probably focus on the best PF/C possible in the draft that year, and a back up shooting guard so Beal can move into a starting role. Probably someone like Anthony Morrow. We'll need a decent backup PG as well, so I'd look to pry away Maynor from OKC as they should have their hands full with retaining Harden and Ibaka.

2013-14 squad might look like:

Wall/Maynor

Beal/Morrow

Crowder/Marvin Williams/whoever

Nene/Jan

Seraphin/2013 1st round pick

I could live with that.

[Going Commando]

I'd rather just start Beal than deal for Kevin Martin. Martin needs the ball to score. Wall needs guys who thrive off the ball to reach his potential.

We can worry about finding ISO crunch time scorers later IMO.

[nuposse87]

I'd rather just start Beal than deal for Kevin Martin. Martin needs the ball to score. Wall needs guys who thrive off the ball to reach his potential.

We can worry about finding ISO crunch time scorers later IMO.

Martin Expires though, gives us far needed flexibility. You can switch the roles and have Martin come off the bench, but he's still a bettr option than JC. Being the primary scorer off the bench.

[Going Commando]

Martin Expires though, gives us far needed flexibility. You can switch the roles and have Martin come off the bench, but he's still a bettr option than JC. Being the primary scorer off the bench.

Summer of 2014 is the banner year. I'm not really worried about finding deals that expire for this upcoming summer.

I hope we operate next summer on the principle that we'll sign no more than one year deals in free agency. I want us to keep the decks clear for 2014.

The thing about Martin is that he's a guy who is used to being an alpha type scorer. He's the type who needs to shoot the ball a lot to get into the flow of the game. I'm not sure he's suited for a role as a bench player/sixth man either. Seems like it'd be a lot easier to just go out and find a low key pure shooter. The NBA has always had a spot for guys like this, and there are always a lot of guys like this that can often be found in the bargain bin.

---------- Post added June-23rd-2012 at 05:14 PM ----------

Interesting stuff from both. Sully's terrific at managing double teams.

I doubt he sees anywhere close to that number of double teams in the NBA. In the right system I think he can be really effective.

Terrence Jones is an enigma. Super talented but those motor problems scare me off. First off, he needs to become a power forward. He's too slow and can't shoot well enough to make SF his natural position. After that, looks like motivation is a major concern. I don't know about him... That strength and coordination and that second bounce are pretty crazy though.

---------- Post added June-23rd-2012 at 05:17 PM ----------

Sully has a lot of Kevin Love to his game. If he is healthy. I could see him becoming the most productive scorer out of this class early on. Gives you surefire ISO offense even against a double team, has a budding face up game, can play within the flow of the offense, etc.

If he starts to slide on draft day I would totally buy a pick to get him. He's a really impressive prospect. Some team will get a steal with him.

[SuperBash]

Ariza said Wall's jumper has been looking really, really, really good. But we've all heard that last summer.

[nuposse87]

Summer of 2014 is the banner year. I'm not really worried about finding deals that expire for this upcoming summer.

I hope we operate next summer on the principle that we'll sign no more than one year deals in free agency. I want us to keep the decks clear for 2014.

The thing about Martin is that he's a guy who is used to being an alpha type scorer. He's the type who needs to shoot the ball a lot to get into the flow of the game. I'm not sure he's suited for a role as a bench player/sixth man either. Seems like it'd be a lot easier to just go out and find a low key pure shooter. The NBA has always had a spot for guys like this, and there are always a lot of guys like this that can often be found in the bargain bin.

---------- Post added June-23rd-2012 at 05:14 PM ----------

Interesting stuff from both. Sully's terrific at managing double teams.

I doubt he sees anywhere close to that number of double teams in the NBA. In the right system I think he can be really effective.

Terrence Jones is an enigma. Super talented but those motor problems scare me off. First off, he needs to become a power forward. He's too slow and can't shoot well enough to make SF his natural position. After that, looks like motivation is a major concern. I don't know about him... That strength and coordination and that second bounce are pretty crazy though.

---------- Post added June-23rd-2012 at 05:17 PM ----------

Sully has a lot of Kevin Love to his game. If he is healthy. I could see him becoming the most productive scorer out of this class early on. Gives you surefire ISO offense even against a double team, has a budding face up game, can play within the flow of the offense, etc.

If he starts to slide on draft day I would totally buy a pick to get him. He's a really impressive prospect. Some team will get a steal with him.

well here is the thing, I don't see any of the big three opting out unless they totally **** up in two upcoming seasons. Secondly, while there are some big time FAs in 2014 you have to really think who is going to help us. I expect Wall, Beal and seraphin to have progressed far enough where we don't really need to address any of those starting positions. Looking at this list:

http://www.hoopsworld.com/2014-nba-free-agents

there aren't many options at PF. Both Dirk and Z-Bo will rather old and will probably ask for longer contracts than they deserve. Granger is the only SF on that list that won't be too old to throw some money at. I just don't see Sacromento just yet so while I would like cousins...I'm not sure it would happen. I'd rather translate Emeka's contract into Martin so we can address spots where need be.

As to Sully/T. Jones. Give me T. Jones me 7 times out of 7. Sullinger has a leg that is supposedly an inch longer than the other...he won't be in the league for very long. For his sake, I hope i'm wrong.

[AsiaticSkinsFan]

Those saying Vesely will be out of the league... Could you explain why Niick Collison is 8 years deep in the league with no plans of retiring? Vesely simply needs to hit the gym and learn to set screens and he'll be in the league for a decade. I'm not saying gain starting center weight, just enough to provide length in a "small" lineup and because of his speed and finishing someone will always pay him,

That IMO is his floor.

why compare him to Nick Collison? Nick Collison is a pretty good player who should be starting for OKC. Not really an energy player either like Vesely is, and not a similar athlete.

I would be delighted if Vesely became like Nick Collison.

Edited June 23, 2012 by AsiaticSkinsFan

[DallasBlowsBig]

I think Jan Vessley is awesome. I like how he attacks the rim and likes to dunk the ball, and the boy gets rebounds too. I think he is going to be a double double for the Wiz and I think he is a long term asset. Considering he did not play NCAA ball or with other American pros much, I thought he had a solid rookie season. Remember he also had to adjust to American life, learning the language and our way of life. So I think he did good. We should not trade Vessley at all and Id like to see him get 25 to 30 minutes a night this upcoming season. I might buy his jersey lol

---------- Post added June-23rd-2012 at 06:14 PM ----------

why compare him to Nick Collison? Nick Collison is a pretty good player who should be starting for OKC. Not really an energy player either like Vesely is, and not a similar athlete.

I would be delighted if Vesely became like Nick Collison.

I agree, Vessley is much more quick athletic than Collison, much higher ceiling.

[Destino]

why compare him to Nick Collison? Nick Collison is a pretty good player who should be starting for OKC. Not really an energy player either like Vesely is, and not a similar athlete.

I would be delighted if Vesely became like Nick Collison.

I don't think Nick Collison is nearly as good as you do. He's a rotational big man. Vesely is that, at worst.

Edited June 23, 2012 by Destino

[AsiaticSkinsFan]

Its not the same system because he learned under Dean you just assume it was. Roy did run alot of the same sets with Pierce though. I believe even one of the draft sites wrote about Roys system being Pg and Bigman dominant.

Dean's systems were big man and PG dominant. HE made King Rice look like a decent player. JR Reid, Brad Daugherty, Montross.

But to continue on with this, Wayne Ellington and Rashad McCants were featured and the leading scorers for those teams. Im not buying this "Barnes wasnt featured" stuff at all. He only started to look like a decent college player when Marshall was put into the starting line up.

People can knock Barnes all they want but this thread will be on here and hopefully we bump it up for next year.

just as long as you are willing to bump this if Barnes shows off those stiff hips to no avail in the NBA too.

Edited June 23, 2012 by AsiaticSkinsFan

[Destino]

Ariza said Wall's jumper has been looking really, really, really good. But we've all heard that last summer.

Believe it when I see it.

[AsiaticSkinsFan]

I don't think Nick Collison is nearly as good as you do. He's a rotational big man. Vesely is that, at worst.

I say that about Collison on this current Thunder team. I would take Collison over Kendrick Perkins.

And Vesely didnt look anywhere near as good as a Nick Collison.

My real thing is i dont see the comparison, they arent similar players.

[Destino]

I say that about Collison on this current Thunder team. I would take Collison over Kendrick Perkins.

And Vesely didnt look anywhere near as good as a Nick Collison.

My real thing is i dont see the comparison, they arent similar players.

What is it that you think makes them so different?

[AsiaticSkinsFan]

What is it that you think makes them so different?

Collison is more skilled. He has a back to the basket game and isnt nearly 7 feet tall. No where near the athlete that Vesely is either.

They both are decent rebounders and are physical players, but Collison has a lot more basketball ability than Vesely.

[SuperBash]

Stat wise, Collison and Ves were near twins as rookies

[AsiaticSkinsFan]

Stat wise, Collison and Ves were near twins as rookies

when you look at advanced stats like shot location, total rebounding rate, etc they arent.

They arent similar players, and Collison was more efficient his rookie year.

If Vesely played on the level that Collison played his rookie year, I dont believe people would be so conflicted about Vesely's future.

Edited June 23, 2012 by AsiaticSkinsFan

[Going Commando]

Considering he did not play NCAA ball or with other American pros much, I thought he had a solid rookie season.

I actually think Vesely's Euroleague is better pro prep than the NCAA. He played in one of the best leagues in Europe for a power team.

Euroleague players have to play against grown men while in the NCAA, a freshman playing against a senior is only a three year age difference. There is a world of difference between that and playing a 28 year old goon with almost a decade of experience as a Pro.

I think the difference in the level of prep and competition between the major euro leagues and the NCAA is perfectly demonstrated by Singleton vs. Vesely last season. Vesely came in and it was clear he knew how to play. Singleton just looked lost most of the time, and he was a junior and ACC DPOTY that already had a lot of skills day one that Vesely doesn't (like shooting).

---------- Post added June-23rd-2012 at 09:20 PM ----------

there aren't many options at PF. Both Dirk and Z-Bo will rather old and will probably ask for longer contracts than they deserve. Granger is the only SF on that list that won't be too old to throw some money at. I just don't see Sacromento just yet so while I would like cousins...I'm not sure it would happen. I'd rather translate Emeka's contract into Martin so we can address spots where need be.

I think Sacramento has a mess on their hands. They've got a ton of pieces that are talented and desirable in a vacuum, but their roster is an even bigger mishmash of misfits than ours is. Thornton, Jimmer, and Tyreke is a mess. The front court is a bit of a mess. And the team is even more painfully young than we were. They won't be winning by 2014. That summer Tyreke is a UFA and Cousins is an RFA. I bet we could max out Cousins and give Sacramento trouble extending him. I could also see Cousins refusing to sign a max extension with them and taking only a qualifying offer so he can get out of there the next summer.

Of all the major potential players out there in the league today, I think Cousins is the most likely one to be lured to D.C. Cousins is an enigma. Not everyone can get through to him and he's widely misunderstood. Deep down he's actually a really shy and somewhat awkward kid. He's honest and wears his emotions on his sleeve. He's kind of like that son you have that needs to be well tended, that responds to hard coaching. John Wall and John Calipari knew exactly how to deal with them. In return, Cousins is totally loyal to them and trusts them.

I think Cousins wants to play with John again more than anything else. He is still best friends with him and he works out here in D.C. during the offseason. During the rookie sophomore game in 2010, you could hear the whistfulness in Cousins's voice when he talked about playing with John again. I think it would be a dream come true for him to team up with John either that summer or the next.

The dysfunction in Sacramento is going to make that all the more likely. Hell, they might not even be in Sacramento any more by that point, the franchise could be in total turmoil.

Just to throw this out there, I think Cousins is a PF ideally, especially in a front court with Kevin Seraphin. I think Seraphin is very much a pure 5. Cousins is a skill guy with too much range to constrict to the 5. I think a Wall, Beal, Vesely, Cousins, Seraphin starting five is actually really strong.

As to Sully/T. Jones. Give me T. Jones me 7 times out of 7. Sullinger has a leg that is supposedly an inch longer than the other...he won't be in the league for very long. For his sake, I hope i'm wrong.

Most people have different length legs to some degree. I think Sully is being overly scrutinized in a way other prospects aren't.

[StillUnknown]

More and more rumors are starting to pop up about Cleveland moving up to #2 for Beal.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Those saying Vesely will be out of the league... Could you explain why Niick Collison is 8 years deep in the league with no plans of retiring?

Because Collion does about a half dozen important things pretty well.