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The Official Washington Wizards Thread: The BEAL & BRODIE ERA


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Kyrie, is ahead of wall in terms of oint guard skills.....that being said you really cant say he will be better than wall...wall is physically way more talented than irving but time will only tell

Wait, what???

Kyrie Irving ahead of Wall in terms of PG skills? That's news to me. LOLOLOL. The ONLY thing Kyrie does better than Wall at this point is shoot the ball. I swear some of you all have no memory of the rookie season Wall had. You don't average over 8 apg (as well as 17ppg) if you can't run a team. Wall is a TRUE pass-first PG and some of this slander on the kid is a bit unfounded...and amusing at the same time. C'mon now...Irving ahead of Wall LOL.

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Durant is local and he is a beast ;)

Yeah I followed him and Vasquez closely when they were at MC. But there was a lot of Thunder fans there. May be because of Durant or they are just the hot, young team to follow. Having said that, if I had to pick a team to follow in the West, it would probably be the Thunder. They are set up so nicely for the future. After extending Westbrook, they still have room to keep Harden and Ibaka in the future. Must be nice to hit on a bunch of draft picks.

Edited by Fight4RGIII
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Wall's ceiling is waaaaaaaay higher than Irving's. At best Irving will be a solid PG like an Andre Miller type, but if Wall reaches his full potential he can be a top 10-15 player in the entire league.

Lol, swear to God I was going to post last night that I thought Irving was gonna be a Andre Miller type PG. Fell asleep though.

But yeah, that's who he reminds me of. I don't think he has top 5 in the league potential like Wall. Or even close to that. Top 5 PG potential maybe.

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Wait, what???

Kyrie Irving ahead of Wall in terms of PG skills? That's news to me. LOLOLOL. The ONLY thing Kyrie does better than Wall at this point is shoot the ball. I swear some of you all have no memory of the rookie season Wall had. You don't average over 8 apg (as well as 17ppg) if you can't run a team. Wall is a TRUE pass-first PG and some of this slander on the kid is a bit unfounded...and amusing at the same time. C'mon now...Irving ahead of Wall LOL.

Right now Kyrie is much better than Wall. He is a much better shooter (including three point range and free throws), he turns the ball over less, and scores more.

I have no doubt that Wall will be the better player in the future. But Kyrie is a much player at the present time.

---------- Post added January-19th-2012 at 05:31 PM ----------

Wall's ceiling is waaaaaaaay higher than Irving's. At best Irving will be a solid PG like an Andre Miller type, but if Wall reaches his full potential he can be a top 10-15 player in the entire league.

disagree completely....Irving could definitely be a Steve Nash type....guy who can score/shoot at a high percentage and dish the ball to teammates

I think you all underrate how impressive it is that a rookie PG is shooting 48% 38% and 84%....those are great numbers for a vet guard, let alone a rookie

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Right now Kyrie is much better than Wall. He is a much better shooter (including three point range and free throws), he turns the ball over less, and scores more.

I have no doubt that Wall will be the better player in the future. But Kyrie is a much player at the present time.

---------- Post added January-19th-2012 at 05:31 PM ----------

disagree completely....Irving could definitely be a Steve Nash type....guy who can score/shoot at a high percentage and dish the ball to teammates

I think you all underrate how impressive it is that a rookie PG is shooting 48% 38% and 84%....those are great numbers for a vet guard, let alone a rookie

13/14 game sample size of Irving compared to what Wall has done in over 80+ games as a pro. 1000% disagree with what you said. On top of it all, Cleveland has 10x better talent than what Wall is working with.

Like I said before...the only thing he does better than Wall is shoot the rock. If I'm picking between the two guys RIGHT NOW, i'm taking wall 10x out of 10. No question.

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13/14 game sample size of Irving compared to what Wall has done in over 80+ games as a pro. 1000% disagree with what you said. On top of it all, Cleveland has 10x better talent than what Wall is working with.

Like I said before...the only thing he does better than Wall is shoot the rock. If I'm picking between the two guys RIGHT NOW, i'm taking wall 10x out of 10. No question.

Cleveland doesn't have that much talent...who do you speak of? Like I said, I'm not saying kyrie will be better than Wall long term, but if you don't think he is better right now, I don't know what to tell you. I'll take a guard who gets me 17 points per game on 48% shooting over a guy who shoots under 37% and turns the ball over more any day of the week.

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Cleveland doesn't have that much talent...who do you speak of? Like I said, I'm not saying kyrie will be better than Wall long term, but if you don't think he is better right now, I don't know what to tell you. I'll take a guard who gets me 17 points per game on 48% shooting over a guy who shoots under 37% and turns the ball over more any day of the week.

Cleveland has guys who can stretch the floor with their shooting...Washington has...um, yea.

That alone makes life easier for Irving.

So, let me ask you this...When Russell Westbrook was REALLY struggling earlier this season, would you still have taken Irving over him? I mean, we are basing this off of this year, right?

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Irving is scoring at a pretty good clip, but I'm not impressed with his point guard skills. In the Cleveland games I've watched, he seems more like a scoring PG than an all around skilled PG. Not that a scoring PG is bad, I think Irving could end up similar to Arenas but I don't see the natural game managing PG skills in him.

If Wall had better talent around him, he would easily be averaging a double double on the season. He's already hit 5 rebounds a game which is ridiculous for a PG.

---------- Post added January-19th-2012 at 09:07 PM ----------

That's all I do in NBA2K with McGee. Pick and roll, have him shoot toward the basket. It's not always there, but when it is, it's impossible to stop.

Flip's system is too reliant on freeing shooters through screens and cutting towards the basket. Probably my biggest gripe with him. We have a lot of players who can successfully run pick and rolls, but we don't. It's frustrating to watch.

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:munchout:

Click on the link to read the rest.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/wizards/javale-mcgee-is-not-a-knucklehead-just-ask-his-mom/2012/01/19/gIQA3Ln9BQ_story.html

JaVale McGee ‘is not a knucklehead;’ just ask his mom

This is the night the hammer comes down, you’ve decided. This is the night to call out the brain lock and the boneheadedness — everything embodied by their starting center’s inability to understand that you don’t throw down a showboat dunk when you’re down six points and about to be 1-12 on the season.

This is the night to eviscerate that kid, just in time for his 24th birthday on Thursday.

Until you meet that kid’s mother.

“He is not a knucklehead,” Pamela McGee says, sitting behind the basket an hour before her son, JaVale, and the Wizards would stun Kevin Durant and the Oklahoma City Thunder on their best night of the season — albeit the worst start to a season in franchise history. “JaVale is a good kid. My son is special. He has gifts you can’t teach: hands, height and heart. If I’m the Wizards and I’m really trying to build a franchise, really committed to rebuilding and developing, I would nurture that talent. I would help a kid like JaVale the best I could.

You want to give him the Knucklehead Treatment all day, and then you run into Mama McGee.

“I know people are making a big deal of that play,” she says. “Look, JaVale does that to break up the monotony. Wouldn’t you if you were losing like this? He’s been here for four years and it’s been same ol’, same ol’. I don’t want him to get institutionalized to losing. My son is the future of the NBA. I don’t want him to be part of this culture of losing forever.”

Now Pamela McGee’s pupils have enlarged. Grabbing your arm, she becomes more animated, as if she were back running the floor with her sister Paula and Cheryl Miller on Southern California’s national championship team, as if she was trying to win a WNBA championship or trying to hang onto her playing career in Europe.

“The one thing I never did as a coach, never not once in my career, was throw my players under a bus,” she said angrily in a clear reference to Flip Saunders’s criticism of McGee’s play earlier this week. “If I had a problem, I would take that player in the locker room and would let them know and we would work it out. I would never throw my player under the bus.”

This is her first-born; this is personal. Where you see a guy prone to goaltending and poor rebounding position, she sees the player who leads the league with three blocks per game.

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Cleveland has guys who can stretch the floor with their shooting...Washington has...um, yea.

That alone makes life easier for Irving.

So, let me ask you this...When Russell Westbrook was REALLY struggling earlier this season, would you still have taken Irving over him? I mean, we are basing this off of this year, right?

I'm basing what I've seen from Irving so far to what I've seen from Wall so far. If you go back and read the posts on this board, you will see I'm the biggest Jon Wall supporter here....I've said many times I think he will be a top 3 player in the league. Part of the reason he isn't delivering that yet is because he is a pure point guard playing with garbage teammates. I think John has the potential to be a 20-12 type guy, but that remains to be seen. But at this stage of their careers looking at this year and seeing what Wall is (right now) as a second year player and what Irving is as a rookie.....Irving is definitely better. Irving is shooting at an elite level; 48-38-84 is elite for a point guard. John Wall isn't elite at anything now. He is the worst shooting guard in the entire league and his assist turnover ration isn't great either.

Am I saying I'd trade John Wall for Kyrie Irving? HELL NO....I think Wall will be a much better player in the long term. But as it sits right now, Irving is a better basketball player. If you can't see that, you either have the homer glasses on or you just have no idea what a good basketball player looks like.

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Right now Kyrie is much better than Wall. He is a much better shooter (including three point range and free throws), he turns the ball over less, and scores more.

I have no doubt that Wall will be the better player in the future. But Kyrie is a much player at the present time.

No.

This is getting ridiculous. Irving has played 13 games and suddenly he's a better PG than Wall... because he has better shooting %s? What is with this prisoner of the moment ridiculousness about Wall?

disagree completely....Irving could definitely be a Steve Nash type....guy who can score/shoot at a high percentage and dish the ball to teammates

I think you all underrate how impressive it is that a rookie PG is shooting 48% 38% and 84%....those are great numbers for a vet guard, let alone a rookie

So how exactly do great shooting percentages for a rookie equate to him being a better traditional point guard than Wall today, much less Wall the rookie?

Keep in mind that the only other point guard that matched Wall's start for assists was Oscar ****ing Robertson.

Call me when Irving gets his first double digit assist game or first double double of any kind, much less his first triple double. Call me when Irving gets more than two steals in a game. Wall's first home game as a pro is better than any game Irving has had so far. Call me when Irving finishes seventh in the league in assists and seventh in steals at any point in his career, both of which Wall did as a rookie.

Irving is nowhere near as good as Wall the rookie. Get that bunk out of here.

---------- Post added January-19th-2012 at 11:20 PM ----------

Harrison Barnes killed it tonight: 27 Pts, 6 Reb, 3 Stl, 1 Blk, 8-14 FGs, 10-12 FTs

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No.

This is getting ridiculous. Irving has played 13 games and suddenly he's a better PG than Wall... because he has better shooting %s? What is with this prisoner of the moment ridiculousness about Wall?

Irving at this stage in the game is a better basketball player than Wall. He scores more, scores more efficiently, and turns the ball over less.

So how exactly do great shooting percentages for a rookie equate to him being a better traditional point guard than Wall today, much less Wall the rookie?

Keep in mind that the only other point guard that matched Wall's start for assists was Oscar ****ing Robertson.

Call me when Irving gets his first double digit assist game or first double double of any kind, much less his first triple double. Call me when Irving gets more than two steals in a game. Wall's first home game as a pro is better than any game Irving has had so far. Call me when Irving finishes seventh in the league in assists and seventh in steals at any point in his career, both of which Wall did as a rookie.

Irving is nowhere near as good as Wall the rookie. Get that bunk out of here.

who said anything about a pure point guard? I'm talking a basketball player that helps his team win. Kyrie isn't a pure point guard, he is an all around point guard....kind of like Chris Paul or Steve Nash who are both very good shooters. Of course Nash and Paul are elite point guards in a passing sense, but both of them can shoot (not just score via layups) and make everyone around them better in the process.

Wall is a TERRIBLE shooter...one of the worst I've ever seen. He also has turnover issues. This isn't an indictment on him...and I'm not bashing him; he is just going to take longer to develop and have a bigger impact on helping his team win.

---------- Post added January-19th-2012 at 11:29 PM ----------

oh yeah...and you want to say call me this call me that....call me when he has more than two steels in a game......steels are the worst stat in all of basketball, just because you get steels doesn't mean you are a good defender.....actually, a lot of guys who gamble a lot and get two steels a game are actually terrible defenders because they get beat trying to get those steels.

How about you call me when John Wall has his team in playoff position and the things he does on the court turns into wins.

Like I've said many times....I think he will be elite....but he isn't even close at this point. Until he improves his shooting and forces the opposition to defend him on the perimeter, this team isn't going to win (unless we get three other former All Stars like Boston or the best scorer in the game like OKC)

Edited by Gator Bait
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Irving at this stage in the game is a better basketball player than Wall. He scores more, scores more efficiently, and turns the ball over less.

who said anything about a pure point guard? I'm talking a basketball player that helps his team win. Kyrie isn't a pure point guard, he is an all around point guard....kind of like Chris Paul or Steve Nash who are both very good shooters. Of course Nash and Paul are elite point guards in a passing sense, but both of them can shoot (not just score via layups) and make everyone around them better in the process.

Wall is a TERRIBLE shooter...one of the worst I've ever seen. He also has turnover issues. This isn't an indictment on him...and I'm not bashing him; he is just going to take longer to develop and have a bigger impact on helping his team win.

---------- Post added January-19th-2012 at 11:29 PM ----------

oh yeah...and you want to say call me this call me that....call me when he has more than two steels in a game......steels are the worst stat in all of basketball, just because you get steels doesn't mean you are a good defender.....actually, a lot of guys who gamble a lot and get two steels a game are actually terrible defenders because they get beat trying to get those steels.

How about you call me when John Wall has his team in playoff position and the things he does on the court turns into wins.

Like I've said many times....I think he will be elite....but he isn't even close at this point. Until he improves his shooting and forces the opposition to defend him on the perimeter, this team isn't going to win (unless we get three other former All Stars like Boston or the best scorer in the game like OKC)

Wall is averaging .4 more TO's a game and has more assists and rebounds. Irving just shoots a higher FG%, thats it. I can't see how Irving is the clear better all around player right now. If you are basing it off of shooting percentage, sure, go with one phase of the game, not all around.

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Here is a comparison for you:

Who is a better basketball player right now.....Ray Allen or John Wall

Ray Allen is. Does Ray Allen get more rebounds, assists, or steels than John Wall? NO

But Ray Allen shoots 50% from the field, 56% from three, and 88% free throw shooter and he scores 15.6 points per game .....and he doesn't turn the ball over.

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Wall is averaging .4 more TO's a game and has more assists and rebounds. Irving just shoots a higher FG%, thats it. I can't see how Irving is the clear better all around player right now. If you are basing it off of shooting percentage, sure, go with one phase of the game, not all around.

you mean the most important aspect of the game? Shooting percentage.....If a team scores a lot of points and they score a high efficiency, 9/10 they win.

You all are focusing on the stuff that Wall does well (very good rebounder for a pg, good assist man) and not focusing on what he does very poorly......shooting.

Will Wall be a better basketball player than Irving in the long run.....I have no doubt he will (I think he'll be the best PG in the game by the time he turns 25) but as of right now, his lack of shooting is a huge liability and that's why we can't win. Irving doesn't have any holes in his game and once aspects of his game (shooting) is elite.

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you mean the most important aspect of the game? Shooting percentage.....If a team scores a lot of points and they score a high efficiency, 9/10 they win.

You all are focusing on the stuff that Wall does well (very good rebounder for a pg, good assist man) and not focusing on what he does very poorly......shooting.

Will Wall be a better basketball player than Irving in the long run.....I have no doubt he will (I think he'll be the best PG in the game by the time he turns 25) but as of right now, his lack of shooting is a huge liability and that's why we can't win. Irving doesn't have any holes in his game and once aspects of his game (shooting) is elite.

I understand the FG% POV but to me, the most important thing for a PG is assist to TO ratio. Irving turns the ball over more at a higher rate than Wall. Wall takes better care of the ball which makes him the better player to me. But we can agree to disagree. And we all know he doesn't shoot the ball well.

Edited by Fight4RGIII
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Jesus...

Just got home. From when I got off at 6 until now, I was in and out of my car, running...errands. I got a chance to listen to the entire Hokies/UNC game on 106.7 (why they cover Hokies basketball, idk).

I have NEVER, NEVER, NEVER ever ever heard an opposing announcer gush over a player more than the Hokies announcer did over Harrison Barnes tonight. He just couldn't stop talking about him. It was like the mancrush version of watching fungus develop in a petri dsih. Every play, every basket, you could just hear it growing more and more. His voice went up and down like he was going through puberty when Barnes had the ball. The color guy would try to talk about UNC's other 1st round talent, but he just kept interrupting him and talking about Barnes. Then, after the game had ended, he stated all he wanted to talk to Seth Greenberg about was Harrison Barnes (the actual interview was amusing. Tried to be professional and ask about the Hokies, but literally his second que. stion was about Barnes and then he kept trying to take it back to him).

Bill Roth is his name. Guess he also does play by play for Hokies football. Anyway, he said that Barnes performance tonight was the best he's seen against the Hokies since Lamar Odom with Rhode Island (wasn't comparing them as players). God knows when that was. 15 years ago? He said sometimes you can just see a player and know he's destined for stardom. And that not only does Barnes have the talent and the game, he also has a vibe/swagger/personality about him that just makes him stand out amongst his peers out on the court.

Haven't paid too much attention to Barnes so far this year (his horrible start last year kind of put me off), but I think I'm going to have to start to.

(BTW, almost completely unrelated: who was Lamar Odom's big time teammate at Rhode Island? I think he was the PG. Highly touted but I don't think he ever did much in the league. I almost wanna say it was Tyronne Lue. Anyone remember? That's bugging me now.)

Edited by G.A.C.O.L.B.
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I understand the FG% POV but to me, the most important thing for a PG is assist to TO ratio. Irving turns the ball over more at a higher rate than Wall. Wall takes better care of the ball which makes him the better player to me. But we can agree to disagree. And we all know he doesn't shoot the ball well.

guess we will have to agree to disagree.....but again...you keep saying PG and I'm talking about a basketball player. I'll take a guy who gets me 18-5 on 48% shooting over the guy who gives me 16-7 on 38% shooting any day of the week. Not to mention they both play on crap rosters....one of them has twice as many wins as the other.

and besides the FG%....Irving is a really good three point shooter.....Wall is beyond terrible...he hasn't made a single 3 pointer all year.

Homer Goggles a major way.

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I could see comparing two players that play different positions but they play the same position. PG is the most important postion on the team, imo. But yeah, he shoots much better than Wall for now but I feel Wall is the better PG and better defensive player. There are two sides to the game.

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(BTW, almost completely unrelated: who was Lamar Odom's big time teammate at Rhode Island? I think he was the PG. Highly touted but I don't think he ever did much in the league. I almost wanna say it was Tyronne Lue. Anyone remember? That's bugging me now.)

I'm thinking of Cuttino Mobley. He actually graduated from Rhode Island the year BEFORE Lamar Odom got there. I just remembered two big time players being at bum**** Rhode Island in the late 90's.

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  • BRAVEONAWARPATH changed the title to The Official Washington Wizards Thread: The JOHN WALL ERA
  • Destino changed the title to The Official Washington Wizards Thread: The BEAL & BRODIE ERA

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