The Official Washington Basketball Thread: Wizards, Mystics etc

[Going Commando]

49 minutes ago, Destino said:

Why is Rui Hachimura buried behind guys at SF instead of starting at PF? 

 

She's working with some bad info I think.  Simmons is a SG too (and is likely to be waived) and why is Justin Robinson on that depth chart but none of the other UDFAs?  There is no way they'd pencil him in to a roster spot yet, before summer league and camp.

[StillUnknown]

 

that last sentence is sobering

[Going Commando]

4 minutes ago, StillUnknown said:

 

that last sentence is sobering

 

It is.  Which is why I don't understand why we shuffled Sato out of the door.  We've gone too young and it's going to be hard for the front court players to learn to play any sort of defense when the guards are going to either be shaky or tiny or both.

 

Parker's not a good player though.  I don't think he'd stand much above the rookies or the also-rans we got from the Lakers.

[StillUnknown]

2 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

It is.  Which is why I don't understand why we shuffled Sato out of the door.  We've gone too young and it's going to be hard for the front court players to learn to play any sort of defense when the guards are going to either be shaky or tiny or both.

 

Parker's not a good player though.  I don't think he'd stand much above the rookies or the also-rans we got from the Lakers.

 

now that i think of it, a strong case could be made that Parker would be our 2nd best player

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

7 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

She's working with some bad info I think.  Simmons is a SG too (and is likely to be waived) and why is Justin Robinson on that depth chart but none of the other UDFAs?  There is no way they'd pencil him in to a roster spot yet, before summer league and camp.

She's probably including Robinson because of the contract he signed.

 

A significant amount of guaranteed money. Especially for an UDFA

2 minutes ago, StillUnknown said:

 

now that i think of it, a strong case could be made that Parker would be our 2nd best player

He would be...and its not even close really.

 

Say what you want about him, but Jabari can actually create his own shot.

 

To me, that's an invaluable skill. 

[StillUnknown]

3 minutes ago, BRAVEONAWARPATH said:

 

He would be...and its not even close really.

 

Say what you want about him, but Jabari can actually create his own shot.

 

To me, that's an invaluable skill. 

 

I just don't think that its remotely a good thing if Jabari Parker is the 2nd best player on your team

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

4 minutes ago, StillUnknown said:

 

I just don't think that its remotely a good thing if Jabari Parker is the 2nd best player on your team

It's not my preference either...but it is what it is.

[Mooka]

37 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

It is.  Which is why I don't understand why we shuffled Sato out of the door.  We've gone too young and it's going to be hard for the front court players to learn to play any sort of defense when the guards are going to either be shaky or tiny or both.

 

Really liked Sato and watching him develop.

 

Writing was on the wall though when we brought in Rivers last season and curbed Sato's minutes. 

[Going Commando]

45 minutes ago, StillUnknown said:

 

now that i think of it, a strong case could be made that Parker would be our 2nd best player 

 

Nah, Thomas is at least way better than him.  But third... maybe.

 

I don't think it'll take long for Hachimura and Troy Brown to get better than him though.  Probably by the end of the season TBH.

 

Wall with one good Achilles is also a lot better than him.

 

****, Isaiah Thomas might even still be better than him.  That's how little I think of Parker.

 

I'm still hopeful that some of the cast offs we got from the Lakers are actually pretty good too.

45 minutes ago, StillUnknown said:

 

I just don't think that its remotely a good thing if Jabari Parker is the 2nd best player on your team 

 

It's a disaster.  Parker is lousy.

49 minutes ago, BRAVEONAWARPATH said:

Say what you want about him, but Jabari can actually create his own shot.

 

He can create his own shot in the way that Mike Scott could create his own shot.  They're not good shots he's creating, and he doesn't score with any efficiency.  He's a net negative player who makes you slightly worse by being on the floor.

[StillUnknown]

Jeff Green to Utah for the minimum 

[Going Commando]

51 minutes ago, BRAVEONAWARPATH said:

She's probably including Robinson because of the contract he signed.

 

A significant amount of guaranteed money. Especially for an UDFA 

 

Interesting.  But I would be a little surprised if we carried a third PG who is small.  My guess is he's going to spend the season playing for the Go-Go unless Smith or Thomas get hurt.

 

I've been watching clips of his game though, and I was pleasantly surprised by them.  He is very fast and a surprisingly good leaper.  Decent strength for being small.  Tough finisher.  Good passer.  Efficient shooter.  Energy guy.

 

The key with guys like him is not to switch.  Toronto used Fred VanVleet to devastating effect on the defensive end by keeping him in man defense and not giving him switch duty.  That's the only way a guard like Robinson has a chance on that side of the court.

 

I look forward to seeing him in Summer League.

7 minutes ago, StillUnknown said:

Jeff Green to Utah for the minimum 

 

Far better fit for them than he was for us.  They can cope with his defense.

[Renegade7]

Damn this team is going to be bad.  I'd like to hear the plan, jus come out and admit it's a rebuild or something so I can better deal with it.  This isnt even purgatory anymore, this is hell.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

8 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

Damn this team is going to be bad.  I'd like to hear the plan, jus come out and admit it's a rebuild or something so I can better deal with it.  This isnt even purgatory anymore, this is hell.

You really need to hear it?

 

Its obviously a rebuild/reset....for next season at least.

 

Once John returns the organization can reassess the long term direction.

[StillUnknown]

1 hour ago, BRAVEONAWARPATH said:

You really need to hear it?

 

Its obviously a rebuild/reset....for next season at least.

 

Once John returns the organization can reassess the long term direction.

 

Ted's the one who stresses transparency. Given the current front office structure, the least they can do is set an established baseline for what they expect this season. Otherwise, how are we to accurately gauge The Sidepiece?

[Warhead36]

Hard to know what the plan is when there is still no full time permanent GM.

[757SeanTaylor21]

Do yall selves a favor and watch jordan stevens...then boycott the team til they sign him

[Renegade7]

2 hours ago, BRAVEONAWARPATH said:

You really need to hear it?

 

Its obviously a rebuild/reset....for next season at least.

 

Once John returns the organization can reassess the long term direction.

 "For next season" is not the rebuild this team needs.  And not clarifying what's going on with the front office makes me question whatever their plan actually is.  

 

As a fan the plan looks like trying to get out the luxury tax, I want to hear why they let Sato go if they were planning for a quick turnaround.

[Going Commando]

41 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

As a fan the plan looks like trying to get out the luxury tax, I want to hear why they let Sato go if they were planning for a quick turnaround. 

 

They're not planning for a quick turnaround.  They're scooping up young talent and building through the draft.  They don't need to tell us they're rebuilding, it's obvious they are, and there is zero strategic advantage in broadcasting that you're going to suck next season.  Doing so would actually cause quite a bit of harm because it destroys the team's leverage with Beal and makes it hard to sell tickets.

[bearrock]

20 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

They're not planning for a quick turnaround.  They're scooping up young talent and building through the draft.  They don't need to tell us they're rebuilding, it's obvious they are, and there is zero strategic advantage in broadcasting that you're going to suck next season.  Doing so would actually cause quite a bit of harm because it destroys the team's leverage with Beal and makes it hard to sell tickets.

 

I hope it's that scenario rather than FO waffling and not committing one way or the other.  If they're gonna blow it up, blow it up and trade Beal (should've shopped him hard during the draft actually).  If they are hoping for a quick rebuild, this isn't the way they should go about it.

 

The ticket concerns I get (although, I guess they're banking on people paying money for tickets to see the team without knowing what is going on with the team?).  But other teams can see the writing on the wall even without us advertising a firesale.  A total blow up should have started with a Beal trade and then work from there.

 

If only the Lakers had assets left, they may have been the best trade partner if they strike out on Leonard.  Beal would fit the need and they need a ready to go star now.

 

If FO is looking at somekind of a rebuild scenario with Beal in tow, then I would look at taking a flyer at Cousins.  I don't understand why the bottom fell out on his market to a point where MLE type of money is no longer viable for him according to some.

[Going Commando]

12 minutes ago, bearrock said:

The ticket concerns I get (although, I guess they're banking on people paying money for tickets to see the team without knowing what is going on with the team?).  But other teams can see the writing on the wall even without us advertising a firesale.  A total blow up should have started with a Beal trade and then work from there. 

 

It's more about preserving leverage with Beal himself.  Beal's value to other teams is a little more fixed--he's a good player and teams trying to win now, with the assets to get him, will want.  But we want him too and we have zero chance at keeping him happy if we come right out and say we have no plans to win within the next four years.

 

We want to have the option to keep Beal if we can.  Even if you're rebuilding, when you have good players over the age of 25, keeping them helps that process along in every respect.

 

If we work it out with Beal that he wants to be here long term and would be willing to sign a five year extension (or a DPVE if he qualifies this year), then the only reason to trade him is if he brings back more value in return than keeping him would.

 

If we can't get that kind of commitment from him, then yeah, maybe dealing him for a loss in value makes sense.  But even still, we shouldn't be in a rush to trade him.  There is no logic to that.  His value will appreciate up until next summer, unless he gets hurt.  Look at what Davis got back for the Pelicans, going into an expiring year.  Beal ain't Davis, but with so many teams trying to contend in the wake of the collapse of the Warriors, and so few high end vets entering their prime seasons out there on the market, Beal is going to command a haul.  Next year's FA class is really bad.  And the best FAs of the 2021 class (Giannis, Davis, PG13 etc.) are going to get locked up by their teams.

 

Unless someone makes a Godfather offer to us this summer, then I think we're better off load managing Beal and waiting for the dust to settle on this FA period so that Beal's the only big name still available.

24 minutes ago, bearrock said:

(should've shopped him hard during the draft actually).

 

This I'm not sure about.  The advantage to trading him before or during the draft would have been to get someone high in this year's lottery, but this wasn't a very good class.  If there is still a chance that we can get an extension done with Beal, then I'd definitely rather have him than any of the lottery picks taken from 3 on down.  And if we can't get an extension with Beal done, then we might as well wait to see if this 2020 class will be better.

[Sticksboi05]

5 hours ago, BRAVEONAWARPATH said:

You really need to hear it?

 

Its obviously a rebuild/reset....for next season at least.

 

Once John returns the organization can reassess the long term direction.

 

Best case scenario is packaging  up Beal to offload Wall's contract, accept that this era is a failure and start over. Of course this assumes a handsome load of picks comes back. You would undo a massive amount of Ernie's idiocy with one trade. They won't do that though because they need to sell tickets.

 

I love Beal, and he's young but by the time this team can compete for conference finals and beyond, he will be approaching 30 with a TON of miles on his legs because this idiotic franchise wants him to lead the NBA in minutes to try and get a meaningless 8th seed. It's borderline criminal what they did last year to Beal.

42 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

Unless someone makes a Godfather offer to us this summer, then I think we're better off load managing Beal and waiting for the dust to settle on this FA period so that Beal's the only big name still available.

 

 

Agree. It could be that trading him at the deadline this season will get a bigger haul. The Warriors are finally beatable and no team is so stacked that the champion is decided yet. A lot of good teams will be gunning for it with Durant exiting Golden State and looking to add a borderline All-NBA player for the playoff run.

 

It sucks that it's come to this but Beal deserves better than this franchise and Wall's contract is a killer.

[Going Commando]

2 minutes ago, Sticksboi05 said:

Best case scenario is packaging  up Beal to offload Wall's contract,

 

That's not realistic.  Beal and Wall combined is 65 million in salary.  There won't be a team that can salary match that kind of package, so that virtually eliminates any two team deal.  If you make it a multi-team trade, then there has to be quite a bit of incentive going out to the team taking on John's deal.  That means the return we get from Beal will be very diminished in value.

 

If we're rebuilding, then cap space becomes far less important to us since the valuable assets we'll be accruing (hopefully) will be on rookie contracts.  Shipping out Wall's contract isn't that big of a priority under the circumstances.  It's much better for us to trade Beal for maximum possible value rather than diminish it and severely limit our options by trying to shoe-horn Wall into the deal.

 

Wall is going to finish his career here.  I don't hate that, given we've got no realistic path to contention within the next three seasons.

[Renegade7]

1 hour ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

They're not planning for a quick turnaround.  They're scooping up young talent and building through the draft.  They don't need to tell us they're rebuilding, it's obvious they are, and there is zero strategic advantage in broadcasting that you're going to suck next season.  Doing so would actually cause quite a bit of harm because it destroys the team's leverage with Beal and makes it hard to sell tickets.

 

If it's so obvious, you pretty much are saying it out loud. Ticket sales are already bad for this team, we're typically bottom half of the league even when we are good.

 

Something like this from the Atlanta GM would be perfectly fine with me, encouraging, but who'd be the one to say it?:

 

Quote

“We want to continue the success we’ve had, but realize we might have to take a step back,” Schlenk said. “We just don’t want to dip down 2-3 years in a row. We realize that young players in this league take their lumps but we don’t want to send the message that we’re (fine) with losing.”

 

It's hard to say the plan is obvious when they haven't clarified if they are going to still bring someone else in or stick with Shep.  It's not obvious he even has the go ahead for a franchise altering trade like Beal, last I checked they wanted to give him max and still find a way to stay under the luxury tax, but then get rid of Sato that would've been a big part of trying to be competitive.  The actions they are taking only make sense to me if they are going to trade Beal, which this point I support because we are going to suck anyway at this rate even if hes here, hed jus be wasted.

[Warhead36]

We aren't trading Wall. Just accept that and hope he can return and be at least kinda close to what he was.

[Renegade7]

6 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

We aren't trading Wall. Just accept that and hope he can return and be at least kinda close to what he was.

Steve is right, that contract is too toxic to expect it to better trading him then keeping him.  Hes still going to be a pass first pg, that'll make us look better then we are versus complete and total chaos on offense until get someone better.  My concern is either IT will suck and we let him go or he does great and we cant keep him, sure fire way to sinking straight to bottom of the ocean is not having a pg.