The Official Washington Basketball Thread: Wizards, Mystics etc

[Skin'emAlive]

2 minutes ago, No Excuses said:

Conceivably this is the starting lineup in 2020:

 

PG: Wall

SG: Beal

SF: TBjr

PF: Hachimura

C  Bryant

 

The upside for this team is that there is potentially a lot of floor spacing and there are multiple players who can beat you off the dribble. 

 

The downside is a front court that will struggle to defend if it doesn’t improve defensively and the PG might be a liability if his game is neutralized with loss of athleticism.

 

 

 

If you mean 2020 as in next season, no way is Wall playing.

 

If you mean 2020 as in the year after, it is unlikely that Bryant or Brown will be starting. With Mahinmi and Howard off the books, an expected lottery pick, and space, Im sure we will upgrade both of those spots. They are not starting quality players.

[No Excuses]

8 minutes ago, Skin'emAlive said:

If you mean 2020 as in the year after, it is unlikely that Bryant or Brown will be starting. With Mahinmi and Howard off the books, an expected lottery pick, and space, Im sure we will upgrade both of those spots. They are not starting quality players. 

 

Yeah I meant 2020, as in next season.

 

I would be highly surprised if they start a fresh lottery pick at the 3 or 5 spot, especially if Brooks is still the coach. Unless we land a top 3 pick and draft an incredible talent that is already miles better than Bryant or TBJr.

 

At least with Thomas Bryant, I think I am more optimistic about him than anything player on the roster. I think he's going to be an excellent starting big man in the NBA and he has a lot of room to grow.

[Spaceman Spiff]

I like Beal, but I am for trading him and getting some picks back.  That leaves this team without a face (until Wall returns) and probably at the bottom of the league for the upcoming season.  

 

I'm not sure how the new guy is at drafting talent but as @No Excuses above said, a lot is going to have to go right for a quick rebuild.  And if that's the case, there's no need to keep Beal here for that process.  

 

I don't see what keeping him here does for us.  I understand @Destino's point about getting out from under EG's bad contracts, two of them come off the books...but even then, we've learned a lot about Achilles injuries lately, namely how hard it is to come back from them and be close to the same player.  Rui is a bit of a project.  There's risk involved.

 

But no matter what way you look at it, there's some risk involved.  Even if you trade Beal and got picks back, you don't know where you'd be picking.  Even if they tank hard, there's still no certainty that they'll be picking in the top 3.  

 

I'd like to see them just blow it up completely and start from scratch, get a bunch of picks and take that risk.  There's no use in pulling a Redskins, which is to try and sell your fanbase that this can be the year.  That gets the Skins to anywhere between 7-9 and 9-7.  I think the Wizards will be mired in being anywhere from terrible to being mediocre for awhile if they don't blow it up.  Trade Beal, as painful as it is not to have a franchise face.  Let the Japan love flow from Rui.  Help Wall get back and then try to trade him too.  Get picks.  

[Skin'emAlive]

Scott Brooks will be gone at the end of his contract, or with 1 year left. He is only here right now because he has alot of guaranteed money left and we have no shot at winning next season.

 

You can start a lottery 3 or 5 if they are anchored by Wall/Beal/Rui. They wont be relied upon to shoulder the full load of the team.

[Skin'emAlive]

4 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

I'd like to see them just blow it up completely and start from scratch, get a bunch of picks and take that risk.  There's no use in pulling a Redskins, which is to try and sell your fanbase that this can be the year.  That gets the Skins to anywhere between 7-9 and 9-7.

 

The Wizards have no shot at winning anything ever unless they get a top 5 guy on the roster, and even then, without a competent FO, coaching staff, medical staff, and a media willing to call out its bull****, I just cant see that happening. The Redskins are not a fair comparison. You most certainly can win a superbowl with a 9-7 roster, and the skins have had 3 straight terrific drafts from top to bottom. So good that they could have won the division with a very poor Alex Smith running the show. I really do believe the Skins will be great in 2021. Really wish Snyder could upgrade the facilities and medical staff, but im confident he is waiting on getting approval for the new stadium at RFK before pulling on the trigger.

[bearrock]

5 minutes ago, Skin'emAlive said:

 

The Wizards have no shot at winning anything ever unless they get a top 5 guy on the roster, and even then, without a competent FO, coaching staff, medical staff, and a media willing to call out its bull****, I just cant see that happening. The Redskins are not a fair comparison. You most certainly can win a superbowl with a 9-7 roster, and the skins have had 3 straight terrific drafts from top to bottom. So good that they could have won the division with a very poor Alex Smith running the show. I really do believe the Skins will be great in 2021. Really wish Snyder could upgrade the facilities and medical staff, but im confident he is waiting on getting approval for the new stadium at RFK before pulling on the trigger.

 

We need to hit on a generational talent in the draft.  Everything starts from there.  Then if you can win a championship within the rookie contract+first extension, the market is good enough to support spending stupid money to keep it going.

[@DCGoldPants]

Until Wall comes back. I have a hard time thinking he won't be a severely diminished talent. I also think if he does play in this upcoming season. It'll be minimal at the end of the season minutes just to see where he is before another Summer to continue recovery. 

[justice98]

By the time the Wiz are decent again (if everything breaks right), Beal will have spent 9-10 years with no real winning to speak of and never being on a legit contender.  Remains to be seen what his tolerance is.  In this era of player power, you dont have to put up with it.  

 

The last guy that stuck it out and it paid off was probably Paul Pierce.  Even then, it took drastic measures.

Edited July 1, 2019 by justice98

[Destino]

1 hour ago, Skin'emAlive said:

 

Im not concerned with our defense sucking. It will allow Rui (and Brown?) ample opportunities to learn how to score on NBA defenses. You can always sign a defensive stopper once you have the core in place. (Beverly, Tony Allen, Al-Farouq Aminu, etc.) But you cant try and make the core around a defense first guy (MKG).

You can't build a roster of bad defenders and then just turn it around by adding a player or two.  It's something that has to be prioritized by the front office.  Both in terms of expectations and the players the choose to add.   

[Spaceman Spiff]

42 minutes ago, Skin'emAlive said:

 

The Wizards have no shot at winning anything ever unless they get a top 5 guy on the roster, and even then, without a competent FO, coaching staff, medical staff, and a media willing to call out its bull****, I just cant see that happening. The Redskins are not a fair comparison. You most certainly can win a superbowl with a 9-7 roster, and the skins have had 3 straight terrific drafts from top to bottom. So good that they could have won the division with a very poor Alex Smith running the show. I really do believe the Skins will be great in 2021. Really wish Snyder could upgrade the facilities and medical staff, but im confident he is waiting on getting approval for the new stadium at RFK before pulling on the trigger.

 

My comp to the Skins is that the Skins are always trying to sell the fanbase that this could be the year.  They are forever petrified about doing a proper rebuild.  And you're right, you can win a Superbowl with a 9-7 team...as long as you're not the Redskins.

 

I feel that if the Wizards keep Beal..that's what they'd be doing.  Petrified to do a proper rebuild because without a guy like Beal, there's nothing to promote.  As @justice98noted, by the time they could get good again, he'll have wasted the bulk of his career and the good years here in DC.  And for what?  Just to have a face of the franchise?   No thanks.  

[Warhead36]

Wall won't be the same player but hopefully he gets smarter with the ball and becomes a better jump shooter.

[Going Commando]

I don't want the Wizards gone.  I want them to run a good ship and win.  Not having a team would blow.

32 minutes ago, Destino said:

You can't build a roster of bad defenders and then just turn it around by adding a player or two.  It's something that has to be prioritized by the front office.  Both in terms of expectations and the players the choose to add.   

 

[Going Commando]

1 hour ago, No Excuses said:

At least with Thomas Bryant, I think I am more optimistic about him than anything player on the roster. I think he's going to be an excellent starting big man in the NBA and he has a lot of room to grow.

 

I am right on the fence of optimism with Bryant.  He does absolutely everything you want in a five except for defense.  Also his rebounding is kind of meh, but you can live with that.  The defensive inadequacy can be back breaking, particularly at that five spot, because no position has a bigger impact on success or failure than your rim protector.  He's got to get better on that end to become a high quality center.

 

But there is so much to like about his offensive game and his personality.  He's the anti-Blatche/Gortat.  He always plays hard no matter what.  He rim runs with physicality and athleticism.  He has a below the rim finishing game.  He's got a silky catch and shoot jumper with range out to three.  He is really good from the free throw line.  He is hyper efficient.  130 ORtg is about as good as it gets for a center who shoots threes.   That's Tyson Chandler catch and dunk big territory.  21 PER is also nice.

 

The foundation for a really good player is there, and he doesn't cost much money.  But I think we all know what he needs to improve in order to get there.  I would feel more reassured if the team and the professionals covering them would actually talk about the necessity of improvement on defense from time to time.  They studiously ignore that side of the court.

[JCB]

It really is stunning to me that just a few years ago, we were pretty much a lock for the ECF if Wall doesn't break his hand. So many bad decisions on top of so much bad luck.

[RonArtest15]

2 hours ago, @SkinsGoldPants said:

Until Wall comes back. I have a hard time thinking he won't be a severely diminished talent. I also think if he does play in this upcoming season. It'll be minimal at the end of the season minutes just to see where he is before another Summer to continue recovery. 

 

Wall's greatest asset is his passing.  His athleticism will for sure take a hit, but his court vision and passing ability will not.  There is no reason why he can't put up numbers north of 15/8 when he returns.  What he needs to do is contact Jason Kidd and pick his brain as to how he remade his game after his serious knee injury when he hit 30 years old. 

 

I'm not worried about Wall's trade value.  No contract in the league is untradeable. 

 

*Edit*

 

Beal and the Wizards are saying all the right things to the public, but I'd have to believe that both sides are entertaining offers.  This is going to be a rough next couple of years, and I don't think Beal would want to waste his prime producing for a 25-35 win team while the rest of his (talented) peers are off competing for championships.  I'd say it's a 50/50 chance that he's on a new roster by TC. 

Edited July 1, 2019 by RonArtest15

[@DCGoldPants]

2 minutes ago, RonArtest15 said:

 

Wall's greatest asset is his passing.  His athleticism will for sure take a hit, but his court vision and passing ability will not.  There is no reason why he can't put up numbers north of 15/8 when he returns.  What he needs to do is contact Jason Kidd and pick his brain as to how he remade his game after his serious knee injury when he hit 30 years old. 

 

I'm not worried about Wall's trade value.  No contract in the league is untradeable. 

 

You're the first person I've seen say this. The beat reports and national guys keep talk about his speed being his best asset.

[bearrock]

6 minutes ago, @SkinsGoldPants said:

 

You're the first person I've seen say this. The beat reports and national guys keep talk about his speed being his best asset.

Really?  Many people, especially Wiz fans feel this way. 

[Going Commando]

Wall has a lot of profound advantages.  His speed has always been top tier and he's huge for a true PG.  One of the strongest players at the position in the league.  And he has elite court vision and passing ability.  His handle is also really good, that's something I don't think he gets enough credit for.

 

I think he'll still be fast and still be able to score and assist at a high rate.  Where I think he'll have a major regression is in availability.  Prior to hurting his knee in game 10 of 2017, Wall was basically on a four year Iron Man streak where you could always count on him to play through his injuries.  Now I think he's going to miss 20+ games a year.

 

The one thing John is absolutely going to have to improve is playing off the ball on offense.  No more of this "I'm going to hit you and get out of your way" style.  He needs to start setting screens and cutting.  He needs to play on a string with the other guys and keep the spacing right instead of going and hiding on the wing.  If it takes cutting his minutes down to 28-30 and committing to load management and coming up with a schedule that gives him time off, then get it done.

[@DCGoldPants]

11 minutes ago, bearrock said:

Really?  Many people, especially Wiz fans feel this way. 

 

Yeah, seriously. I just googled John Wall's Best Asset and the articles going back to the injury are about speed and quickness

 

https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/wizards/john-walls-achilles-injury-going-change-everything-wizards

 

https://www.sbnation.com/2018/12/31/18162587/john-wall-injury-wizards-rebuild-impossible-future

 

 

[Going Commando]

John is a classic faster than quick athlete.  He's like D.K. Metcalf.  Big, strong, a cannon ball of a downhill runner.  But the truly quick water-bug type PGs gave him problems.  Isaiah Thomas and Jeff Teague being the notable examples.  Quickness and lack of standing vert were pretty much his only athletic shortcomings.  You'd see the issues pop up in weird ways, like not being able to dunk unless he launched from his right foot or from two and finished with his left hand.

 

There is a lot more to him as a player than his speed.  Aggressiveness, toughness, power, skill, instincts were all part of the equation of what made him so effective. 

[justice98]

3 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

Wall won't be the same player but hopefully he gets smarter with the ball and becomes a better jump shooter.

 

And that's the thing, we're left hoping and praying that happens.  For all we know, we might get a defiant, delusional Wall that's working in his rehab to be the same guy, not a different, cerebral, shooter guy. 

 

How long before he concedes he cant get past these cats like he used to, pre-injury?  That first season might be a wash while he figures out how he has to play to be effective.

Edited July 1, 2019 by justice98

[No Excuses]

If Wall is a reliable three point shooter upon returning, he will continue to have a productive NBA career. Beal is a good enough ball handler now that Wall isn’t our only option for creating something in the half court. I think Rui can be useful here too if he can take on slower, less athletic 4s and beat them one-on-one. 

 

For most of Walls career in DC, he was the only one who could create good offense in the half court. This has to change starting 2020. 

[Renegade7]

1 hour ago, @SkinsGoldPants said:

 

You're the first person I've seen say this. The beat reports and national guys keep talk about his speed being his best asset.

 

His speed is what made him a borderline elite player despite being a below average 3 point shooter.  But that's not his best asset, his passing ability is, imo.

 

We've seen fast PGs before, but his passing ability will keep him in the league without that speed.  And it's not like he won't be fast, he just won't be as fast, will miss a handful of games every year, and everyone will be begging him to chill out with throwing his body around now more the ever. 

 

Once upon a time he had two speeds: stop and go.  Third stage of his career will be interesting.

[No Excuses]

I think it’s important that they sign Jabari Parker now, otherwise we are looking at a team that will be historically bad on offense. You just cannot go into the season with one person on the roster who can consistently score 15+ every night. 

 

With Beal/Parker, you form a decent 1-2 punch and Thomas Bryant might be able to provide another 16 PPG if he can stay on the floor more this year. 

[Renegade7]

1 hour ago, @SkinsGoldPants said:

 

Yeah, seriously. I just googled John Wall's Best Asset and the articles going back to the injury are about speed and quickness

 

https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/wizards/john-walls-achilles-injury-going-change-everything-wizards

 

https://www.sbnation.com/2018/12/31/18162587/john-wall-injury-wizards-rebuild-impossible-future

 

That's really underselling him, but the basketball coverage in DC leaves a lot to be desired, another reason. I'm pissed Kara is leaving.

1 minute ago, No Excuses said:

You just cannot go into the season with one person on the roster who can consistently score 15+ every night. 

 

Honestly, this looks like a roster screaming a Beal trade.  You absolutely right it won't work with him by himself, to point I don't think that's the plan.