Jump to content
Washington Football Team Logo
Extremeskins
Forum Rules and Guidelines

The Official Washington Basketball Thread: Wizards, Mystics etc

BRAVEONAWARPATH

By BRAVEONAWARPATH
in The Tailgate

 Share

Recommended Posts

Going Commando

Going Commando

Posted
Posted

Yeah we knew Gil was goofy but I don't think we the fans know how seriously unprofessional and immature Gil and that locker room was. Some fans did, but I don't think we generally knew.

But I also think fans knew that those Gil teams weren't really legit. It wasn't good basketball, we just won about half our regular seasons because we went into every game with a shooter's chance.

I give Gil credit for genuinely loving basketball. But as someone else put it, there was an air of loving to hit game winners rather than win with Gil. And just loving to play basketball isn't enough to be a great pro basketball player.

That's where Wall and Beal separate themselves for me. Wall has the makeup of a champion IMO and Beal is a terrific second star. I think the chemical mix and complimentary skill sets is there.

RA15, what this team needs to get over the hump is time. Wall and Beal are too young and undeveloped to be the backbone of a true contender this year. And it'll be the same story next year. By year four of Beal's career, I think he might be ready (though he'll still be on the young side at just 22 years old).

The issue is the age of Nene/Gortat/Martell/Ariza. Especially Nene and Gortat. They're too old to be compatible with Wall and Beal for the long haul when we'll actually have the foundation to contend. We need them to keep growing and to just field lineups capable of winning for now. But all of us feel anxiety about adequately replacing them when they decline.

Big picture, I think Porter needs to work out and become a solid long term starter so you've got at least one more spot filled with a guy on the same time table as Beal and Wall. And we need to find a young big man to go with these guys long term. Someone good. If you can do that, I think this team will be pretty well set.

I like Gortat, but I think things will be a lot easier if we can sign Greg Monroe. With Cousins locked up long term, there's a good chance Monroe is our best option for the next several years.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Going Commando

Going Commando

Posted
Posted

I don't think the Wizards should have built around Gil that way either, but thats on Ernie not Gil. Conversely, I am not sure you can build a title contender around Beal either.

The point I am getting at is you are downplaying how great of a player Beal was over the last few years. Thats all.

I think he was a truly great offensive player. In particular, he was a great and dynamic scorer. Great at creating his own shots. But holistic basketball impact was hampered by the fact that his style wasn't conducive to balanced offensive basketball and he was truly terrible on the defensive end. And I think leadership/chemistry was a negative with Gil and that's the most important consideration of all. Maybe it wouldn't have been if he hadn't been the guy for his team and he could have just blended in and been a supporting personality. Gil was a nice guy, I think he could have gotten along. But we built the team around him and his personality and leadership style.

No I don't think you could build a contender around Beal either. There have been better SGs than Beal (and Gil for that matter) that you couldn't build a contender around. You couldn't even build a very good team around just Ray Allen. I think a lot of that is the nature of the position. SG probably has the least net impact on the court around the league on average. Hell, even Kobe isn't impactful enough to build a contender around. He needed dominant front courts for the Lakers to contend. And Kobe is the second best SG in NBA history and was the league's most prolific and versatile scorer and one of the best perimeter defenders in his prime.

MJ stands out of course. First you consider his leadership and competitiveness bonus, which was flat out rare at any position. But from the on court skills and production perspective, Jordan was he the league's best scorer, which is incredible for a SG that didn't really shoot threes a whole lot. And beyond that, he was also a tremendous facilitator and he was also one of the league's most impactful defensive players during his prime. That's even more incredible than his scoring to me. SGs just don't defend as many positions and alter as many shots as he did. And he was a top notch rebounder for his position, he really did it all. PER is a measure of a player's accumulation of counting stats and really sways towards front court players because of how it values rebounding and stuff like blocking shots. It's flat out incredible that MJ was putting up elite front court style PERs as a true SG. Compare his PERs to those of other great SGs since him. Jordan's average PER was 27.9. Iverson's was 20.9. Kobe's is 23.4. Vince Carter's was 20.1. Ray Allen's is 18.6. Tracy McGrady is 22.1, though he did have a 30 PER season. He's also as much a SF as SG, which kind of makes the point. Other tweeners like him: Brandon Roy (cut short) was 20.0. Penny Hardaway was 17.4. The only guy I find that gets Jordanesque is Dwyane Wade at 25.3, and four seasons with a PER above 27. Wade also runs point, was also a great defensive player like Jordan who did big man things on D like rebound and block shots.

So no I don't think you'll ever be able to build a contender around Beal either. Not unless he's got a lot more Dwyane Wade in him than we've seen so far. I think you almost always need someone who balances out your offense and/or someone who is a real impact player on defense and on the glass. You need the margin for error that guy gives you night in and night out.

But I think Beal can be a terrific second star that helps put a John Wall centric build over the top into true contention. As truly great a scorer as he was, I think Prime Gil takes more off the table than Prime Beal will.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
RonArtest15

RonArtest15

Posted
Posted

Will a nucleus of Monroe/Wall/Beal be that much better than what we have w/ Gortat?  I'm not arguing either way, but something needs to be done to help this team become more than what they've shown so far.  Like you said, SM, the age of guys like Gortat/Nene is VERY concerning.  I honestly think that Gortat will be back next year, because there isn't a chance in hell we let him walk after we gave up a pick.  I honestly wouldn't care if he walked ONLY if we had a good plan B.  And that plan B to me is signing Monroe and also getting Emeka back in the fold. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Going Commando

Going Commando

Posted
Posted

I don't know that Monroe/Wall/Beal is better than it is with Gortat because Monroe is probably an even worse defender than Gortat.  Monroe is flawed.  But I'm pretty certain the core would at least last longer because Monroe is only 23.  That's the main upside for me.

 

The trick with Monroe is finding someone that can cover up for him defensively without then taking away his interior space on the other side of the court.  I see his issues being a lot like ZBo's.  You want another big that can guard space and that can shoot and force the other guys to guard him in space.  That's tough to find no doubt.  And that's one of the worrying things about building around Monroe.  But Monroe is great deal better than nothing.  Which is what we'll have when Nene and Gortat decline.

 

I think Gortat will be back too.  We don't even know if we can afford Monroe.  Detroit is talking like they'll match and maxing out Monroe is a tough pill to swallow.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
StillUnknown

StillUnknown

Posted
Posted

Is there anyway we can make the playoffs sacs Wittman gets fired? I don't trust him.

 

Maybe if we got blown out and swept in the first round of the playoffs.

 

I don't think it gets that far though. I think Ted will extend both Grunfeld and Wittman the moment we secure a playoff spot.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Going Commando

Going Commando

Posted
Posted

Yeah. But Beal is working hard though and I like to see it. He'll start scoring if he keeps at it. He needs to protect the ball a little better though.

Webster has been terrible. His decision making was off and the And-1 he gave up in transition was really bad. If you're going to foul, you've got to make sure he doesn't make it and Webster just half heartedly fouled him.

I didn't love seeing Beal get torched by Greivis in that stretch in the second though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Destino

Destino

Posted
Posted

I didn't love seeing Beal get torched by Greivis in that stretch in the second though.

Beal needs a defensive coach this offseason. He gets himself in trouble too often by moving too far left or right on the perimeter and allowing his man to straight line drive to the basket. Doesn't help that Kevin Seraphin barely gets off the ground when pretending to protect the rim.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share
Go to topic listing

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...