Dibble is dumb and random MLB debate Thread

[Mooney]

You never back anything up with facts or even your ideas. You just slam everyone else. Its annoying. When you can come up with facts and ideas of your own, then I'll have more respect for you.

So one post you actually bring up facts, good job.

Apology accepted.

[ACW]

Randy Myers...that was the 3rd guy. Charlton, Dibble and Myers...that was a crazy bullpen Cincy had.

MattFancy and ACW...youngins...

I never said ANYTHING about is playing ability. That comment was still sexist. Hell, Ty Cobb's a hall of famer, but was still a jerk.

[Forehead]

Some of the best baseball minds in the world don't agree on how good players are. I've gotten into huge debates about Ripken with someone who knows 10x more about baseball than I do (and he's wrong in this debate, BTW).

Well, I consider myself pretty knowledgeble about baseball. I've played, umpired, watched, and coached in some form or another for over 20 years. I'm curious as to what your opinion of Ripken is. To be concise, mine is pretty anti-Ripken, but I'll wait to see what yours is.

[Forehead]

I never said ANYTHING about is playing ability. That comment was still sexist. Hell, Ty Cobb's a hall of famer, but was still a jerk.

Have you ever read "My life in baseball: The True Record" by Tyrus Cobb? He was an angel, and how dare you sully his good name:ols:

No seriously, the book is hilarious the way Cobb spins everything.

[MattFancy]

Well, I consider myself pretty knowledgeble about baseball. I've played, umpired, watched, and coached in some form or another for over 20 years. I'm curious as to what your opinion of Ripken is. To be concise, mine is pretty anti-Ripken, but I'll wait to see what yours is.

Ripken is a god, don't ever think otherwise :saber:

[Sticksboi05]

Randy Myers...that was the 3rd guy. Charlton, Dibble and Myers...that was a crazy bullpen Cincy had.

MattFancy and ACW...youngins...

You're what, five years older than them...wooooah.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Well, I consider myself pretty knowledgeble about baseball. I've played, umpired, watched, and coached in some form or another for over 20 years. I'm curious as to what your opinion of Ripken is. To be concise, mine is pretty anti-Ripken, but I'll wait to see what yours is.

Let me start by saying Ripken is my favorite player ever. But, I think I'll be in agreement with you when I say that he was far from a great player. He was good and unique and, in some ways, changed the SS position by adding power. However, he wasn't great. He had a couple incredible seasons but was typically a .280ish hitter with 20+ HRs. Again, for a SS in that time, it was great...but that's about it.

Now, what he did for the Orioles and the sport transcended baseball in a lot of ways and should not be forgotten. He was a consummate professional who was a great role model for kids. He worked every, single day and played through pain (which might have contributed to his numbers suffering some).

Oh, and my friend who disagrees with me and maintains that Rip was GREAT is a Yankee fan who hates the O's...but he did grow up in this area in the 1980s.

[Forehead]

Ripken is a god, don't ever think otherwise :saber:

False, but we can start another thread to argue about it if we need to.

You're what, five years older than them...wooooah.

While this is true, I was 10/11/12 when the Nasty Boys were doing their thing, playing basball and very aware of MLB. I remember them dominating people and especially clowning Oakland and the Bash Brothers. So yes, I will talk down to five years olds, thank you.:pfft:

Let me start by saying Ripken is my favorite player ever. But, I think I'll be in agreement with you when I say that he was far from a great player. He was good and unique and, in some ways, changed the SS position by adding power. However, he wasn't great. He had a couple incredible seasons but was typically a .280ish hitter with 20+ HRs. Again, for a SS in that time, it was great...but that's about it.

Now, what he did for the Orioles and the sport transcended baseball in a lot of ways and should not be forgotten. He was a consummate professional who was a great role model for kids. He worked every, single day and played through pain (which might have contributed to his numbers suffering some).

Oh, and my friend who disagrees with me and maintains that Rip was GREAT is a Yankee fan who hates the O's...but he did grow up in this area in the 1980s.

I could be long-winded, but suffice it to say...I think he had his strong points but I think his ego/chasing the streak hurt the Orioles in some ways.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

I could be long-winded, but suffice it to say...I think he had his strong points but I think his ego/chasing the streak hurt the Orioles in some ways.

See, I'm not sure about that. I'm sure in a couple very small ways, it could have. But I think having Ripken chasing the streak was overall better for the O's than not having Ripken.

I do think his pursuit of the streak made him a worse player especially toward the end. But I don't believe the marginal difference it made on him ever really held the O's back.

All in all, I think he was a good player who did an amazing thing. As he aged, he became an ambassador for the game of baseball. I just don't think he was anywhere close to a great player over the entirety of his career (and some people do).

[Sticksboi05]

Dibble was the fastest to 500 K's in history....by a pretty wide margin too. He did it in 368 innings. It took greats like Nolan Ryan over 500.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Dibble was the fastest to 500 K's in history....by a pretty wide margin too. He did it in 368 innings. It took greats like Nolan Ryan over 500.

He was a good player.

Now, do you agree with his opinion? Don't we hear great ex-players saying ridiculous things all the time?

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

what am I going to post about from now on?

Cooking. You are borderline tolerable on that subject.

By the way, I feel like Ripken was a transitional/transformational player who was never quite as good as everyone said. He turned what was once a defensive position into an offensive position. But he was never quite the offensive force people seemed to think he was. And he stayed at SS far far far too long.

[MattFancy]

Doesn't matter what kind of player Dibble was, he was way wrong on this. If Stras were to get seriously hurt he would jump all over the Nats for not protecting him. Its his first year, he's pitched well, and the Nats' season is over. Let him rest and be ready for next season.

[jnhay]

I hate the guys who try to act like it's all about being tough, but don't realize that the players today are 100x more valuable. There's a lot more money at stake with Strasburg then there ever was with Dibble.

[Warhead36]

I like Dibble. I disagree with what he's saying but I don't think he's some flaming moron. Dibble pitched in an era where pitchers went out and pitched, thats how they developed their arms. But professional training regiments are different nowadays. Different times, that's all.

[BeachSkin]

I liked Strasburg better when he was calling himself Mark Prior.

[Forehead]

See, I'm not sure about that. I'm sure in a couple very small ways, it could have. But I think having Ripken chasing the streak was overall better for the O's than not having Ripken.

I do think his pursuit of the streak made him a worse player especially toward the end. But I don't believe the marginal difference it made on him ever really held the O's back.

All in all, I think he was a good player who did an amazing thing. As he aged, he became an ambassador for the game of baseball. I just don't think he was anywhere close to a great player over the entirety of his career (and some people do).

I think his streak was good for the game of baseball but poor for the Orioles. Let's be honest, in the later half of that whole thing, how many times were the Orioles in a pennant race? 1 year, maybe 2? How many times was he going out there, late in the season, with nothing on the line, just to keep the streak going?

I know the O's farm system hasn't always been the greatest, but you're telling me there weren't any players at the AA or AAA level that could have used the work, gotten a little seasoning for later, but never got the chance because this guy just had to play every day?

We'll never know, I certainly don't remember who was in the O's minor league system back then. But the fact remains, there were probably kids there that could have used the playing time, that never got it. And looking back at his career stats, I mean hell, he had 5 seasons IN HIS PRIME where he hit less than .260, but was out there playing every day.

Showing up to do your job every day is an admirable quality that should be practiced by more people in this country, but baseball is a little different, and I think there are times where he could have helped the Orioles more by taking a breather here and there.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I like Dibble. I disagree with what he's saying but I don't think he's some flaming moron. Dibble pitched in an era where pitchers went out and pitched, thats how they developed their arms. But professional training regiments are different nowadays. Different times, that's all.

Dibble pitched when I was in high school. He didn't use to drink with Whitey Ford, for Christ's sake.

Dibble was quite comfortably in the era of the specialists. He was basically a one-inning set-up man with closer's stuff. And then he became an actual closer. And then his arm fell off. He was effectively done at 27.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Forehead, all good points. I conceded that it probably impacted the O's a little. However, taking away the two years that they lost in the ALCS, I doubt a slightly better SS would have pushed them over the top during the last few years of his streak.

I do have to admit that I don't know much about their farm system from that time period. I know that Ryan Miner was the guy who replaced him at 3B when he finally sat out, so it's not like he was blocking any stars in the early 2000s. However, he could have been blocking some better players in the late 1990s.

In the end, I think we basically agree that he was a good player who is overrated. He'll always be my favorite baseball player, but I just don't see how anyone can call him "great" with a straight face.

[Warhead36]

Dibble pitched when I was in high school. He didn't use to drink with Whitey Ford' date=' for Christ's sake.

Dibble was quite comfortably in the era of the specialists. He was basically a one-inning set-up man with closer's stuff. And then he became an actual closer. And then his arm fell off. He was effectively done at 27.[/quote']

I know he's not that old. But still, only recently have we really seen teams baby pitchers the way the Nats are babying Strasburg.

[MattFancy]

I know he's not that old. But still, only recently have we really seen teams baby pitchers the way the Nats are babying Strasburg.

I wouldn't call it babying. I mean we all remember Mark Prior. You don't think the Cubs wish they could've "babied" Prior? Why wreck a pitcher's arm in his FIRST season when the team is going nowhere? If the Nats were battling for the division, yeah sure Strasburg should be out there. But what good does it to for the Nats to have him pitch now if his arm/shoulder are bothering him?

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I know he's not that old. But still, only recently have we really seen teams baby pitchers the way the Nats are babying Strasburg.

Because baseball moves at glacial speed. It took them 150 years to realize that making a guy in his late teens and early 20s throw 125 pitches a night is a really bad idea.

Hell, it was only about ten years ago that teams figured out that getting on base was a good thing for a hitter.

[Sticksboi05]

He was a good player.

Now, do you agree with his opinion? Don't we hear great ex-players saying ridiculous things all the time?

I didn't say that I agreed with him. I merely posted a stat.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

I didn't say that I agreed with him. I merely posted a stat.

Right...but the stat was about as relevant to the point he made as me posting that it's 77 degrees out today.

[Mooney]

Right...but the stat was about as relevant to the point he made as me posting that it's 77 degrees out today.

It was perfectly relevant to Fancy's asanine claim that Dibble was a "bum". Try to keep up.