So, what exactly was up with the refs last night?

[Burgold]

..and so are the lies and blatant false statements. Mind showing me where I have defended a single ref in this thread or you just trolling?

No problems... this sure sounds like a series of ref defenses to me.

I acknowledge the refs make mistakes, but those mistakes often gain us fortune as well.

Sounds like a defense to me

That was not roughing the passer.

Roughing the passer is hitting the QB once the ball is released.

http://www.nfl.com/rulebook/protectionofpasser

He still had the ball when they hit him. Not a roughing the passer.

Sure, are working hard to excuse the refs, ain'tcha?

I didn't see the face mask, but I'm not saying there wasn't one. I just know it was clean in terms of the hit on the QB. I was more focused on seeing if anybody was nearby to warrant the intentional grounding call.

[MusicCitySkin]

The Ravens simply proved they're a dirty team that resorts to underhanded tactics, but I guess it's not cheating if you don't get caught. That's what cheaters say anyway. It would seem they took advantage of the incompetent officiating.

[brianm23]

You have got to be ****ting me. Not a single one of those post defended a god damn ref and you ****ing know it Burgold. Stop being a troll and either discuss things normal/logical or get out of the thread. Somebody stated something blatantly false, and I corrected it. It wasn't defended the refs, or any of the calls. You are making more into than what there is.

What do you want me to do? Lie? Yeah guys, that was a blatant roughing the passer called missed even though there was no actual roughing the passer. MAN THOSE REFS SHOULD BE FIRED FOR NOT CALLING SOMETHING THAT WASN"T THERE!!!! Talk about me overreacting...lol I suggest you kids not throw stones from glass houses.

I think we need to elevate the troll alert since Burgold has got into the action.

[Mr. Sinister]

Oher was getting away with several holds against Orakpo too. No call. After the Saints game last year I just basically assume the refs are against us all the time. Nothing I've seen has made me change my mind.

But the more you complain to a ref, the more he coutinues to dislike you. So what are we ever going to do?

I had hoped that Shanahan would have a different rapport with the referees. But we'll wait and see once the regular season starts.

It's A Conspiracy

[RichmondRedskin88]

brianm23 you wouldn't happen to be a ref would you?

[brianm23]

brianm23 you wouldn't happen to be a ref would you?

Why? Because I know the difference between a roughing the passer and clean hit?

Listen, lets go ahead and end this here. If you want to troll and bait me then just don't bother wasting your time. My only point that I made in this thread is that bad calls happen. We also benefit from bad calls. (as noted by the LJ fumble not being called) Stop reading into **** that isn't there. If you want to sit around and ***** and complain about how horrible the refs are then fine, but I'd rather discuss why our team had 390 yards total offense and only 3 points.

[RichmondRedskin88]

Why? Because I know the difference between a roughing the passer and clean hit?

I agree it was not roughing the passer but it was unnecessary roughness. Roughing would be if he hit him after the ball. He had McNabb before the ball came out but holding his mask and jammed his head in the ground definitely should be unnecessary roughness.

[kevinklein]

Preseason for the refs too. I'm not overly concerned about even though there were some blatant mistakes. Giving the ball back to the Ravens after Tryon's beautiful strip? Phantom holding on the Banks return. And how many ****ing times did Orakpo get held when he was an arms length away from the QB. That was the most frustrating of all.

[techboy]

Somebody stated something blatantly false, and I corrected it.

Actually, it wasn't false. The NFL has changed the rules to pretty much ban any contact to the quarterback's head or neck. You're quoting from an NFL rules digest, not the full rulebook, which probably accounts for the error.

I couldn't find the full rulebook online (though I have in the past, so it's out there somewhere), but I did find this blog at ESPN:

Some Detroit fans were upset with referee Ron Winter’s decision to penalize linebacker Julian Peterson for roughing the passer on a third down incompletion during the first quarter of last Sunday’s 17-10 loss to St. Louis.

As you might recall, the Rams were facing 3rd-and-9 at the Lions’ 27-yard line with 5:22 remaining in the first quarter. Peterson lined up as the Lions’ right defensive end and beat Rams left tackle Alex Barron around the corner. Just as quarterback Marc Bulger released the ball, Peterson reached out and hit Bugler on the top of the helmet with his right hand.

The hit wasn’t violent, but it was hard enough that Bulger’s head moved slightly. His pass fell incomplete, which would have forced placekicker Josh Brown to attempt a 46-yard field goal. But Winter immediately whistled Peterson for roughing the passer, giving the Rams a first down. Ultimately, Brown converted an easier 41-yard field goal.

Unfortunately, Peterson was just out of luck on this call. The NFL rule book warns that “referees will be particularly alert to fouls in which defenders impermissibly … use hands, arms, or other parts of the body to hit the passer in the head, neck or face.”

Peterson intended no malice but, as we discussed last month when the Lions fell victim to another weak roughing penalty, the NFL long ago decided to protect quarterbacks at all costs. Even Lions coach Jim Schwartz couldn’t argue.

“He hit him in the head,” Schwartz said. “It was a glancing blow but the rule book states you can’t hit the quarterback in the head. … That’s the definition of the rule. It’s hard on defensive players. If you go low on the quarterback you’re going to get a penalty. We had one of those a couple of weeks ago. If you go high and you hit him in the head you get a penalty. If you try to hit him in the belly and he ducks his head and you hit him in the head, it’s a penalty. It’s difficult for those guys. They just have to go play and they need to let the officials officiate. We just need to play. You hit the quarterback in the head, it’s going to be a penalty. They’re going to throw it.”

Emphasis mine. Roughing should have been called on that play.

[wysknz1]

How about that horrible call where the Refs said Ravens were down after we stripped the ball in a perfectly clean legit play?

That ref needs to be cut.

IF the raven would've broken free and not went down would they have given him forward progress or called him down? I don't think the whistle had blown at that point had it?

And I thought the reffing in the Lions/denver game was as bad if not worse.

[techboy]

Here's another secondary source (NFLFanhouse), with a better citation including page reference:

Here's the section of the rulebook that applies to roughing the passer in this situation (12-2-13, p. 85):

In covering the passer position, Referees will be particularly alert to fouls in which defenders impermissibly use the helmet and/or facemask to hit the passer, or use hands, arms, or other parts of the body to hit the passer in the head, neck, or face (see also the other unnecessary-roughness rules covering these subjects). A defensive player must not use his facemask or other part of his helmet against a passer who is in a virtually defenseless posture -- for example, (a) forcibly hitting the passer's head, neck, or face with the helmet or facemask, regardless of whether the defensive player also uses his arms to tackle the passer by encircling or grasping him, or ( lowering the head and violently or unnecessarily making forcible contact with the "hairline" or forehead part of the helmet against any part of the passer's body. This rule does not prohibit incidental contact by the mask or non-crown parts of the helmet in the course of a conventional tackle on a passer.

I don't really like the rule (Schwarz's comment in the previous quote is a good reason why), but it's pretty clear.

[DiscoBob]

Refs were bad, but all the people screaming conspiracy are loony. Bad reffing doesn't mean league conspiracy against the skins, it just means that the refs sucked.....

[Dukes and Skins]

Refs were bad, but all the people screaming conspiracy are loony. Bad reffing doesn't mean league conspiracy against the skins, it just means that the refs sucked.....

Maybe they need a TC for Refs too I do agree it's not a conspiracy but more of they were just off last night, you have to hope that it's fixed though when the Regular season starts

[HBnotBlades]

I went back to look at the game on my DVR and I paused it when McNabb was being tackled so I could weigh in on the Personal Foul debate.

It looked like the defenders right hand was holding onto the helmet near McNabb's right ear and the defenders left hand was either holding onto the bottom of the facemask or the inside of the helmet. Either way, the entire tackle was made by grabbing the helmet and it was a very dangerous play. I'm going to say there should have been some sort of penalty called.

I imagine that this is the reason that McNabb had his ankle taped in the second half. After going back and watching it I'm shocked he wasn't injured more seriously.

[Combatant]

I imagine that this is the reason that McNabb had his ankle taped in the second half. After going back and watching it I'm shocked he wasn't injured more seriously.

Nice screen shot, but I think McNabb was limping well before that play. I don't remember the exact play, but McNabb moved up in the pocket due to pressure from behind and was tackled by Suggs??? around the legs/feet.

[terrifNick21]

Ron Winter sucks. I strongly dislike him. We always lose games he refs. I'm not surprised. As soon as I saw he was the ref last night, I knew we were ****ed.

[campbellcooleyconnection]

agreed ron winters is a hack of a ref .every game his crew refs is a flagfest.let them play the game call the obvious..he misses the obvious example- orakpo raped all night long

[HBnotBlades]

The other bizarre call from the refs was on the delay of game penalty in the second half coming out of Baltimore's challenge. I went back and watched that and counted 8 seconds in between the time the refs blew the whistles to begin play and the play clock hitting zero. The refs convened and still decided to call the penalty.

I'm assuming there were 8 seconds left on the play clock with the ravens challenged, but I'm pretty sure the play clock is supposed to be reset when they came back from review. Otherwise, if the Ravens had waited until there were 2 seconds left on the play clock to throw the challenge flag, the Skins would only have 2 seconds to snap the ball. That doesn't sound right.

[Hailskins94]

It was friggin Ron Winter, one of the worst referees in the game. His crew easily throws a flag about every 4 plays. They apparently think everyone buys a $100 to sit there and watch them. I cannot stand the guy and he was limping all over the place and slow on top of everything else. He just had knee surgery and can't run. SHOULD NOT BE ON THE FIELD PERIOD!

[Section106]

That was roughing the passer. I knew it watching it live, from seeing the replay on the HD screens and then from screen shot. The Ravens take these preseason games way too seriously!

[The_Godfather]

One call that I could not believe was the delay of game after the challenge by Denver. I call "intentional screwing" by the refs. :mad:

[Cooley's Mullet]

The hold on Torain during Banks PR was about as big a phantom call as i have seen. I couldn't even find Torain on the replay, so I am assuming he was holding someone 30 yards down field on the opposite side.....

For those wondering why Landry fell to the ground and faked a cramp... his chinstrap was broken and the officials weren't bothering to pay attention to his need for a quick equipment timeout.... not sure why so few people picked this up...

The officiating was atrocious... yeah the LJ fumble benefited us... but that is a pretty easy call to miss... hard to tell who he tripped over in real time...

[jgibbsfootball]

can anyone explain why 3 seconds went off the clock at the end of the first half with the redskins driving and play stopped for a booth review? There were 11 seconds on the clock and after the review it changed to 8 seconds.

[Burgold]

As near as they could tell, the 'skins spiked the ball dead, the refs waved off the spike and declared a booth challenge. Then failed to return any of the time which I think they're supposed to do if the refs challenge.

Basically, they ran the clock down for the Redskins twice. There actually should have been about fifteen seconds on the clock.

[DixieFlatline]

can anyone explain why 3 seconds went off the clock at the end of the first half with the redskins driving and play stopped for a booth review? There were 11 seconds on the clock and after the review it changed to 8 seconds.

I was flabbergasted by that. The Skins were waiting for the whistle to blow so they could snap and down the ball. The refs blow the whistle for a Ravens timout, yet 3 seconds went off the clock while McNabb got the ball and then threw it down. I was confident they would be put the seconds back up or someone on the coaching staff would point it out to them, but nothing.

It clearly should have been 11 seconds left as the clock had stopped until the play restarted. Either the Ravens got their timeout in before the snap...therefore the clock stopped at 11 seconds or they didn't in which case the play should have ensued.

This to me was one of the most obvious missed calls as there shouldn't have been any judgement involved.