Andre Looks Completely Lost At LB.

[Butz65]

Of 96 replies, you posted four.

yeah - I got bored copying and pasting two pages into this thread. Should have picked up the dozen or so more in the next 3-4 pages as well. I guess we should just pack up and look forward to next season. I think I'll hang on a little bit longer and see what happens......

[KDawg]

yeah - I got bored copying and pasting two pages into this thread. Should have picked up the dozen or so more in the next 3-4 pages as well. I guess we should just pack up and look forward to next season. I think I'll hang on a little bit longer and see what happens......

Right.

When did I say that?

Most posters here are concerned over a spot. Some are jumping overboard. Just as some are in their replies in this thread about everyone getting down on this team.

[Master Blaster]

I believe I said one position and two of its players were not very good. The Bills didn't gameplan for us. They weren't looking for holes. There were things they wanted to see.

Nor did we gameplan for the Bills.

Let's all sit back and see what happens before predicting the sky will fall.

[Master Blaster]

IDK. What about Rak's coverage skills?

I know. Just wish we could find OLB's with cover skills like the Steeler's LaMarr Woodley and James Harrison.

Those guys were made to cover TE's one-on-one.

[KDawg]

Nor did we gameplan for the Bills.

Let's all sit back and see what happens before predicting the sky will fall.

Again, show me where I did that.

[FuriousD]

Jeez, so much whining. News flash ... we played the 4-3 last year with all your favorite players at their so called ideal positions and went 4-12!!!

Not to mention losing to some of the worst teams in the league while playing the MIGHTY 4-3!

No one said making the transition would be easy and every single team that has done it (most of them for the better) has had to struggle with what we're dealing with now. They all got through it. Consider it a right of passage and deal with it!

And in the meantime remember that the players are stoked about the new D.

:helmet:

[s0crates]

Carter was one of few bright spots on this team last season. Posting 11 sacks is pretty impressive. It would be a shame to lose such a valuable asset simply because he does not fit into our new scheme.

I can see why people are concerned. Carter struggled in the 3-4 while he was in San Fran, and he has done well in the 4-3 here in Washington.

I hope we figure this out. Carter (and Orakpo too for that matter) are deadly pass rushers, so we need them to get after the quarterback, but we also need some linebackers who can cover.

[RandyHolt]

i never liked the 3-4. Until it dominates in DC, I will stick to my guns. Last years line, look for only Haynesworth to show anything. Daniel and Jarmon, I am not expecting much from them to be honest. I suspect our ends need to help out the OLB's.

It was hard to watch Carter. I didnt see any other defensive linema... err OLB's do much better, in his defense. Do we even have a single proven 3-4 OLB on the roster? What's next, no punter, LS, or kicker? No worries, Alexander can kick.

One more preseason shakey OLB performance, I'd say lets go get one. A natural. If there are none available, why did we go to the 3-4 again? Design your defense around your personnel, I would think.

We are the Square Peg Round Hole Redskins

[Master Blaster]

Again, show me where I did that.

Overall pessimism of this entire board.

Wait until we gameplan and take advantage of Carter's skill set at OLB. In a 3-4, especially with Rak on the other side, we will get some favorable match-ups with Carter on a TE or RB.

Two things to consider:

1. Haslett has stated Carter is playing the OLB position that will almost exclusively rush, much like the Steeler's Woodley, who rarely drops into coverage.

2. As LOLB, Carter plays to the offense's running strength. A majority of plays will be runs at him, which will once again give us favorable match-ups with Carter on TE/FB.

[ATLredskin]

If Andre Carter is our best option at OLB then we have the worst 3-4 OLBs in the league. I mean we should have seen it coming once he hired Jim Haslett.And how about the depth chart...Carter,Lorenzo,7th round 4-3 DE

[darrelgreenie]

I think the people need to look at the other 3-4 LOLB in the league then compare them to Carter and ask your self is Carter worse at zone coverage then those guys?

Because most of the time IF/when a 3-4 LOLB is in coverage their playing short zone

[Butz65]

Honestly - how many teams play a 3-4 with 4 linebackers who can all cover? The 3-4 is designed to create havoc, mix up fronts, allow for pressure and disruption. It's higher risk than the 4-3 which means it will get burned on occasion but will also create points, turnovers, etc. We're not perfectly built for it but we have play makers who should be able to make it work. As someone earlier pointed out - what good is a 4-3 defense on a team that finishes 4-12? I'm looking forward to the high risk-high reward approach even if it means needing a shoot-out from time to time on the offensive side of the football to win.

[Skin'emAlive]

yeah - I got bored copying and pasting two pages into this thread. Should have picked up the dozen or so more in the next 3-4 pages as well. I guess we should just pack up and look forward to next season. I think I'll hang on a little bit longer and see what happens......

You are over exaggerating. We arent saying that the sky is falling and we should just quit. We had to bolster our ol and qb position this past draft and offseason. We did that. There was nothing wrong with that. It had to be done. But we should not have tried to change the defense until next year when we could use draft picks on lbs and others that fit within this new defensive scheme. It just seems to be setting ourselves up for failure. This automatically makes that "gem" of a pick in Jarmon a complete waste. Which is sad because i was looking forward to him filling in as a super sub on the dl.

[ATLredskin]

And its crazy how you guys think Andre Carter will all of a sudden fit in this scheme when we already have evidence of it not working out in San Francisco and that was a younger, quicker Andre Carter. We didn't go 4-12 because of our defense. I kinda look at last year defense like the 2007 Ravens defense (that challeneged the undefeated Pats). They just gave up towards the end of the year once they were out of the playoff race just like the Redskins.

Everyone is saying the 3-4 is going to create turnovers, but how can people forget the teams in NFC championship game ran a 4-3 defense. And lets apply the 21 point rule to all the games last year...if the offense holds up its end of the bargain then we are a 10 win team in 2009.

[SuperTough]

I think the people need to look at the other 3-4 LOLB in the league then compare them to Carter and ask your self is Carter worse at zone coverage then those guys?

Because that most of the time IF/when a 3-4 LOLB is in coverage their playing short zone

Absolutely agree. It's almost odd when the OLB is playing a vital role in pass coverage and it can trick an offense (e.g., Harrison and his superbowl INT TD).

The main determining factor of success for OLB in most 3-4 schemes is the ability to pass rush and to contain gaps created by the DL. Carter can pass rush and he has shown containment ability (at least when he was on the DL).

Also just look at the size of the other 3-4 OLB in the league. Several people are saying Landry for OLB but he is FAR too small. 3-4 OLB are 250 (at least!) with most around 265. "EA presents the 3-4" thread does wonders for this concept. IMO, Landry would be far worse than Carter on terms of size alone.

One last thing... Orakpo was selected as a pro bowl LINEBACKER. And as others have said, the media pundits and draftniks thought that a move to a 3-4 scheme would be ideal for him. In fact, if you were to ask me, I'd say that the switch to the 3-4 was made FOR Orakpo, NOT in spite of him.

[Ryman of the North]

Jeez, so much whining. News flash ... we played the 4-3 last year with all your favorite players at their so called ideal positions and went 4-12!!!

Not to mention losing to some of the worst teams in the league while playing the MIGHTY 4-3!

No one said making the transition would be easy and every single team that has done it (most of them for the better) has had to struggle with what we're dealing with now. They all got through it. Consider it a right of passage and deal with it!

And in the meantime remember that the players are stoked about the new D.

:helmet:

using our record as an indictment of the defence last year is pretty weak actually, in case you didnt notice our offence last season was worse than pathetic, I would venture to say that with an offence that was capable of scoring 28 points a game we would have had a vastly different record, as a matter of fact someone had a thread that showed us winning the nfc if that had been the case, EVEN WITH OUR SUPPOSEDLY BAD DEFENCE.

When last I checked the only relevance our defence had on our record was the fact that we won any games at all.

and carters problem is very simple, he isnt a smooth athlete, he is stiff in the hips and doesnt play well in space, he is explosive in a straight line and his change of direction skills dont fit at lb.

as for Rak, he got an award at OLB based on the big plays he made as a DE, the morons who thought hed be a great OLB were looking at his lack of bulk and not his actual play style, he is athletic enough to be solid as an OLB but he would be excellent if he gained some weight and played DE, his ceiling would be far higher.

[skins4ever17]

Who looks better at OLB, carter or alexander? Maybe Riley could step up/ jarmon could if they learn the system quick.

[Butz65]

using our record as an indictment of the defence last year is pretty weak actually, in case you didnt notice our offence last season was worse than pathetic, I would venture to say that with an offence that was capable of scoring 28 points a game we would have had a vastly different record, as a matter of fact someone had a thread that showed us winning the nfc if that had been the case, EVEN WITH OUR SUPPOSEDLY BAD DEFENCE.

When last I checked the only relevance our defence had on our record was the fact that we won any games at all.

and carters problem is very simple, he isnt a smooth athlete, he is stiff in the hips and doesnt play well in space, he is explosive in a straight line and his change of direction skills dont fit at lb.

as for Rak, he got an award at OLB based on the big plays he made as a DE, the morons who thought hed be a great OLB were looking at his lack of bulk and not his actual play style, he is athletic enough to be solid as an OLB but he would be excellent if he gained some weight and played DE, his ceiling would be far higher.

We can go back and forth on this argument. Teams in the past have been able to win on the backs of a strong defense even when their offense was subpar (see Baltimore Ravens). I would argue that lack of turnovers was just as big a factor in going 4-12 as was lack of production on offense. Your comments on Orakpo are absurd. He's said himself that he'll have much more freedom under Haslett to rush the passer and make plays. Who knows how Orakpo will perform in a 3-4? He may thrive (he certainly seems to think so). Carter may be a liability at OLB but given the fact that he practiced at RDE today that may not be much of an issue going forward.

[Butz65]

Everyone is saying the 3-4 is going to create turnovers, but how can people forget the teams in NFC championship game ran a 4-3 defense.

Way to cherry pick your facts. Last time I checked half of the teams in the playoffs last season used the 3-4.

[Ryman of the North]

We can go back and forth on this argument. Teams in the past have been able to win on the backs of a strong defense even when their offense was subpar (see Baltimore Ravens). I would argue that lack of turnovers was just as big a factor in going 4-12 as was lack of production on offense. Your comments on Orakpo are absurd. He's said himself that he'll have much more freedom under Haslett to rush the passer and make plays. Who knows how Orakpo will perform in a 3-4? He may thrive (he certainly seems to think so). Carter may be a liability at OLB but given the fact that he practiced at RDE today that may not be much of an issue going forward.

You couldnt be more wrong if you tried, comparing a team like the ravens who won a superbowl with a ball control, power running game and decent passing attack combined with a stud defence is comparing apples to oranges, our offence wasnt decent it was pathetic and our defence played accordingly (low risk because they knew we werent scoring more than 21 on a good night.) so please come back with a better comparison, frankly there isnt one, our offence last season was bordering on the worst in the NFL and was by far the worst the skins have had in the modern era.

My Comments about Rak are pretty much common among people who actually understand football. Rak isnt exactly gonna say " ive played DE my whole life and my skillset is based on that." frankly he is more of a jason taylor entering his prime type than a demarcus ware, no matter what some pundits would have you believe. his sacks came mostly with him playing at end, another poster already posted a breakdown. just because some talking heads say otherwise means nothing. I like Rak, I think he would be an awesome RE in a 4-3 and will likely be a solid OLB in a 3-4.

[Ryman of the North]

Who looks better at OLB, carter or alexander? Maybe Riley could step up/ jarmon could if they learn the system quick.

Jarmon is almost 290 now and will be in the mix at end. its far easier for men at that age to gain weight by working out than drop it.

[FuriousD]

using our record as an indictment of the defence last year is pretty weak actually, in case you didnt notice our offence last season was worse than pathetic, I would venture to say that with an offence that was capable of scoring 28 points a game we would have had a vastly different record, as a matter of fact someone had a thread that showed us winning the nfc if that had been the case, EVEN WITH OUR SUPPOSEDLY BAD DEFENCE.

Football is a team sport and the defense has to shoulder its share of responsibilty for that record. As a so called ball player, I'm sure you already knew that but maybe you chose to conveniently forget. Who knows.

But calling my statement weak and then coming back with "scoring 28 points a game we would have had a vastly different record", that's a stroke of real genius right there! How do you do it?!

I know you are a legend in your own mind, but Shanahan and Haslett (2 PROFESSIONAL FOOTBALL COACHES) think the 3-4 and Carter/Alexander at OLB can work and I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt for now. Something I'm not willing to do for you.

:helmet:

[Thirtyfive2seven]

I think going to the 3-4 defense is the right move - I'm just concerned that the team is going to go through a major learning curve and the schedule doesn't exactly allow room for error. All I was saying is that I'm more confident in the offense than the defense at this point in time.

And so what if I think moving Orakpo to LB is a bad idea. He played much better at DE last season. I hope the staff utilizes him properly.

As for Carter he was terrible in SF at the 3-4 and excelled here at DE. That tells me that he is more comfortable at that position.

[jtyler42]

I think the people need to look at the other 3-4 LOLB in the league then compare them to Carter and ask your self is Carter worse at zone coverage then those guys?

Because that most of the time IF/when a 3-4 LOLB is in coverage their playing short zone

I honestly think people are confusing the coverage responsibilities of a 3-4 OLB with the coverage responsibilities of a 4-3 OLB...He WON'T be covering anybody man to man...to be successful in coverage as a 3-4 LOLB you need to be able to jam the TE from time to time, drop to your landmark on the field and make the tackle if the ball is thrown in your area...

Honestly - how many teams play a 3-4 with 4 linebackers who can all cover? The 3-4 is designed to create havoc, mix up fronts, allow for pressure and disruption.

That 3-4 team doesn't exist lol! I can only think of ONE 3-4 OLB that can cover regularly and that is Shaun Phillips...At this point people shouldn't freak out about Carter...He will be playing moving forward more often than not...In man to man situations Rocky, Fletch, Landry and even Moore will handle the TE's and RB's leaving Rak and Carter to rush...

[NavyDave]

Andre looks lost at OLB?? Wow!! Who didn't see that coming?

I mean enough naysayers of the Redskins switching to the 3-4 pointed out that we had players along the Defensive line best suited for the 4-3 and teams in our division are going to do the TE drag all game long to take advantage of Orakpo and Carter and even Lorenzo when he is out there.