Andre Looks Completely Lost At LB.

[flexxskins]

Well, according to this article that Oldskool posted, coach thinks that Carter is doing just fine.

3. Shanahan disagreed that outside linebacker Andre Carter struggled during his limited time against Buffalo. “Andre has done a great job in camp,” Shanahan said. “You need game-day experience, especially when you switch positions. … [The transition] is why you have those OTAs and summer camp – so he becomes comfortable not only rushing the quarterback, but dropping [into coverage] and playing different routes and techniques.”

http://www.csnwashington.com/08/16/10/Kelly-Playing-Saturday-Very-Very-Slim/landing.html?blockID=291169&feedID=272

[maddogtre]

A few things...

1) I think its way to early to freak out. Give them some time to adjust.

2) We aren't only playing 3-4 this year. There will be plenty of formations and the coaches will be tweaking things as needed.

3) I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Chris Wilson. I think he and Orakpo are the best suited to play OLB in a 3-4 scheme on the roster. From what I remember, he made some good plays on Friday when he came in with the second team.

So i'm not worried yet. Every team has issues. Geeze, everybody's claiming the Ravens will be superbowl contenders and their secondary has massive issues. I think our OLB situation will get sorted out in time. And, if it is a huge issue this year, then next offseason will work. I'm not expecting a championship in year one of shannallen anyways.

[Going Commando]

His best hope is as a nickel rusher. That's not terrible since we'll probably use nickel packages quite a bit. He lacks the versatility to play the OLB position full time.

We should have traded Andre to the Saints by now. He's one of my favorite players on the team, but I don't want to see him struggle in a position that doesn't suit him and have everyone call him a bust.

[RFK Lives]

Well, according to this article that Oldskool posted, coach thinks that Carter is doing just fine.

http://www.csnwashington.com/08/16/10/Kelly-Playing-Saturday-Very-Very-Slim/landing.html?blockID=291169&feedID=272

Another sign that we have a real coach. Even if he knows or thinks there is a problem, he will not give the media the first clue that he knows or thinks there is a problem until it is so blatantly obvious. Why add any fuel to a fire that may or may not exist.

If he dared admit AC struggled, it would be the lead story that Shany is worried about transition to 3-4, he has no confidence in Haslett or Carter etc.

I think he is handling the media well.

[Morneblade]

this team does not have the personnel to run the 3-4. i think it's gonna be ugly.

I've been saying this since we switched and gotten blasted for it on more than one occation. We dont have the LB's to play it. We didnt have depth there last year and it's worse this year. At least lat year we had guys that could PLAY the position, this year we dont even have that. McIntosh didnt look that good inside. Carter looked bad as expected, and for anyone that though that Alexander was going to make a smooth transition from DT to OLB should have their "football card" revoked. The defense is going to be worse than last year in all likelyhoood.

[Peeping Wizard]

I like the idea of Landry at LB. I suspect that he will be playing near the line quite a bit this year and will be akin to a 5th linebacker anyway. I'm glad to see the personell are playing to his strenghts. The more space you give him to run, the more mistakes he seems to make.

[Wyvern]

As I see it, one of the area of interest to watch during the Skins' first preseason game was the dry-run of Haslett's 3-4 defense (vanilla) vs. the Bill's offense (a blend of vanilla and 'stuggling').

While I saw many things on the Skins offense to smile about, I was less than impressed with what I saw on the defensive side. It's early to be sure, but it looked Haslett still has his work cut out for him as he converts 4-3 DEs into OLBs for his 3-4 alignment.

And even though it was early, I didn't like how the Bills were able to move the chains by succesfully challenging our OLBs. That brought home to me about how many Skins defensive players have new roles this year -- and I hope we'll be ready (scheme-wise, position-wise, talent-wise and chemistry-wise) when the regular season opens. It's not prime time yet -- and that's fortunate for Haslett's bunch.

I'd hope that ES fans wouldn't be so quick to condemn anyone who happened to have a similar impression about the Skins OLBs. Taking off the burgundry-tinted glasses doesn't many anyone less of Redskin fan; we're allowed to think critically about how the team is doing.

Please remember that a big majority of people who have concerns with Carter at OLB, are still pulling for him to successfully fit into the new role and new alliignment. Hopefully, everyone understands that this transition could take some time, and to avoid over-reacting to the swings and blips of each preseason game performances.

This preseason game with the Bills was not a true reflection of the types of challenges that our defense will face during the regular season. So, I'm hoping that Haslett and Co. can get everyone on the same page on this -- and that Team Haslett is flexible enough to acknowledge whether they have a bona-fide NFL OLB, or a DE still struggling to fill in. If by the end of presasion Carter is still struggling, I wouldn't be surprised if some kind of trade is worked out to bring in a bona-fide 3-4 OLB.

So I'm very curious to see how this conversion to 3-4 turns out. I thought we were a little thin at linebacker before but we very good talent for Haslett to work with.

[wrecker]

I like the idea of Landry at LB. I suspect that he will be playing near the line quite a bit this year and will be akin to a 5th linebacker anyway. I'm glad to see the personell are playing to his strenghts. The more space you give him to run, the more mistakes he seems to make.

You mean with Landry playing close to the LOS we may actually be able to disguise our coverages and maybe let AC attack more? :idea:

[Chump Bailey]

I think Lorenzo will nail it down.

[rookieskin]

I thought Chris Wilson looked good at some point...

Or Someone else mentioned Perry Riley.

Please don't think about putting Landry there.

[icbmayday]

He did look very unatural at the LB position. He is clearly a DE and did not do good when San Fran switched to the 3-4. He needs to have his hand in the dirt or be traded.

[Chachie]

My take with Andre Carter and Brian Orakpo at LB that the team was really running a 5-2 not a 3-4.

Both Carter and Orakpo are pass rushing DE's. Neither of them belongs covering anyone downfield.

That said my "coaching experience" is exactly 0 days while Shanahan and Haslett have been doing this for a while. Perhaps they know more about this than me:)

Orakpo might have the youth to make the changeover but no way on earth Carter becomes a coverage OLB. No way.

I thought I saw in the "Tweet" thread that Andre was practicing at DE today. (?)

[JGordon_3]

A few things...

1) I think its way to early to freak out. Give them some time to adjust.

2) We aren't only playing 3-4 this year. There will be plenty of formations and the coaches will be tweaking things as needed.

3) I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Chris Wilson. I think he and Orakpo are the best suited to play OLB in a 3-4 scheme on the roster. From what I remember, he made some good plays on Friday when he came in with the second team.

So i'm not worried yet. Every team has issues. Geeze, everybody's claiming the Ravens will be superbowl contenders and their secondary has massive issues. I think our OLB situation will get sorted out in time. And, if it is a huge issue this year, then next offseason will work. I'm not expecting a championship in year one of shannallen anyways.

Transitioning to the 3-4 from a 4-3 is a two year proposition. It takes 2 years to hopefully get your personnel in and get the players that you want to keep, familiar with the system, calls, checks, etc.

We're trying to do this on the fly in one season and with players that we already have. The biggest keys to a successful 3-4 are your linebackers. Haslett inherited Rocky, London, and Orapko. Everybody else is a square peg trying to fit into a round hole (and maybe Rocky is too). Some will do better than others, but whatever success we have as a team this year will likely be due to our offensive success for a change. All we need from the defense is not to be awful. We've addressed the D-line this offseason, next offseason will be the linebackers and maybe secondary. Next year is when we should be elite if we can get some more pieces at linebacker.

[Skin'emAlive]

Some said the same about Green Bay and Denver. But they finished in the top 10 in defense. "this team does not have the personnel to run the 3-4" is simply ridiculous. The problem is that we don't like change. And if you think the Skins had championship defense last year, you are wrong.

3-4 defense does what a 4-3 defense can't. Keep the QB guessing.

Not true. Green Bay is entirely suited for a 3-4. They have 3 great line backers in Clay Mathews, AJ Hawk, and Nick Burnett. They also have Ryan Pickett and BJ Raji on the line. That is one of the more complete 3-4 lineups right there. Denver got lucky with Elvis Dumervil, and he is now injured. That will significantly hurt their team. The whole defense was geared around him, much like our team was geared around Sean Taylor.

The qb wont have to guess about throwing it towards carter/alexander/orakpo. Its guaranteed yards. Running a misdirection to the strong side will be brutal.

[Ryman of the North]

This would be exactly why I have argued against this stupidity all along. This idiot idea was sold to us by people pointing oput all the teams who made the switch quickly (the bronco and Packers being the 2 main examples) so I dont wnat to hear about how this defence will be good in 3 years, Ive waited long enough for a decent defence.

We built this team to run a 4-3, we have players who fit a 4-3 very well and we do not have the basic components to run a 3-4 no matter what the 3-4 apologists would have us believe.

I have said ad nauseum that the strongest players on our D all fit the 4-3 mold or at worst have weaknesses that are more easily covered up in a 4-3. We did not have ANY of the hall marks of a 3-4 team, we didnt even have THREE linebackers at or near probowl level let alone 4 and we dont have 5 capable of playing significant roles. the strength of this team on defence the past 2 seasons has been our Dline and we negated that with this move.

we had to move 3 dlinemen to linebacker to even think about this, contrast that with Green bay who had depth at LB and the right sort of Dline on top of it.

depth at LB? hahahahaha, I said all along that depending on jackson, Wilson, Gatewood and alexander was a recipe for disaster as none of them are really guys who should be on our roster as OLB's. Alexander is a great player in a rotation at de/dt but not much more than that, the other 3 are all failed De's who are undersized . just being a tweener doesnt make you a decent calibre OLB in a 3-4. at ILB Rocky and Fletch go from flow guys to having to deal with guards in their face more often. and now maybe guys will admit that HB is not a starter in the NFL not even remotely. Carter who we would be depending on to play significant minutes failed so badly in san fran at the 3-4 that we got him for a song, it took a bit but he rebuilt his confidence and with a decent DT beside him he is a beast at DE and will be for at least a few years (he is in great condition and is an effort guy). with this move we basically got nothing for an 11 sack DE.

Rakpo and Carter are both better as 4-3 de's Rak at least can play in space competantly but even he looks out of place as an OLB, this is a case of a head coach trying to fit square pegs in a round hole because HE likes the idea of a 3-4.

On the line adding kemo and Carriker made this less risky but by no means balances out losing a pair of pro bowl calibre ends and basically trading them for a possible probowl situational rusher and an incompetant OLB. Then you add in that you are basically paying 100 million for a block absorber instead of a guy who will make plays for you and you have a very stupid decision.

Im sure that now we will hear " oh but its only one game" or my favourite " we won 42-17 so its all good" completely ignoring that 1- Buffalo ran with a patchwork oline and still moved the ball on us and 2- the problems are not "a few weels of practice and getting it down type issues."

the faster this idiot idea gets trashcanned and we go to playing an aggressive 4-3 the better for us THIS YEAR AND IN THE FORSEEABLE FUTURE we will be. but its a pride thing so I have no doubt they will stick with it or simply run more 4-3 stuff and say " we meant to do that."

[Skin'emAlive]

Well, according to this article that Oldskool posted, coach thinks that Carter is doing just fine.

http://www.csnwashington.com/08/16/10/Kelly-Playing-Saturday-Very-Very-Slim/landing.html?blockID=291169&feedID=272

To be fair... Shanahan wasnt the greatest evaluator of defensive talent back in Denver. :whoknows:

[my_friend_goo]

I'm not panicking just yet, but this is going to have to be a matter to watch over the remaining weeks. I'm honestly surprised that all reports so far suggest a 3-4 base D, I was expecting more 4-man fronts at times other than rushing downs.

If I remember rightly, Orakpo was touted as a possible 3-4 OLB option pre-draft. If he does a majority pass-rushing role then that's fine, but who takes that role if he goes down? Getting rid of Andre Carter may not be in the team's best interest for that reason if he's better suited to pass rush than coverage. He certainly can't be traded for a 3-4 OLB unless a multiple team deal (in one or two stages) is carried out - no 3-4 team will do a straight swap for him given his past in such a scheme.

As for the suggestions that Landry might work as LB, I'm not sold on that. I believe he's already undersized for a 4-3 LB, let alone a 3-4 LB. If we're talking about playing an undersized guy at that position, why not just put a 4-3 OLB there and make do?

[maddogtre]

It's funny that so many people on here keep saying Orakpo is better at 4-3 DE. However, pretty much every coach and talking head on ESPN/NFL Network believe the 3-4 is built for him and he'll have an impact like Ware/Merriman/etc.

Well as much as the talking heads on TV get annoying, I trust them and the coaches over alot of the people here.

[Master Blaster]

Well, don't look deeper than Andre, because it's even uglier down there. Alexander was horrid and make Carter look like an All-Pro.

We're EXTREMELY weak at that OLB position and I can bet that we're going to see teams running to that side of the defense early and often in game situations. I know I would. I'd tell my QB to look for 99 and run or throw in that direction.

We need to shore up that spot, and I think it's going to be a priority headed into next season... But we may need a stop gap.

I'd be fine with Carter in the rotation at DE and as a backup OLB for us, but we need someone to step in that can actually play that position. I realize its new for both of them, but a few months of work won't make them ready for the season.

The Bills had 121 yards of offense going in to the fourth quarter.

I'll take such horrible play any week.

[Skin'emAlive]

Ryaman of The North:

Ive been in agreement with you since it was announced that we would be switching formations to the 3-4. Many of your points are valid, such as Haslett's inability to field a great defense (He a lb coach when the steelers were great. They got worse when he becamse the defensive head coach). Our team is perfectly suited for a 4-3 right now. We have been building this for years.

I do however like Haslett's fire and energy. He got Haynesworth to work his ass off and accept the system. Thats impressive and should not be understated. My biggest frustration with him though is that he is stuck in that same coach mentality that we have seen from our coaches for YEARS. " The system works. Its the execution". Well im sorry, but we should be running a 4-3 until we have the pieces to go to a 3-4. We are just not ready.

I was under the impression that we would have picked up a bunch of lbs to fit the new system, but we didnt and are in quite a pickle of what to do with our roster. Its not even square pegs in round holes. Its apples to oranges. Here is our current situation:

DL as of last year:

Jarmon

Orakpo

Haynesworth

Daniels

Carriker

Carter

Alexander

Komoeatu

Golston

Holliday

DL who are now Lbs:

Jarmon

Orakpo

Carter

Alexander

Almost 50% of our DL have been switched to the LB position.

LBs as of last year:

Mcintosh

Fletcher

Blades

Henson

Wilson

Jackson

Riley

LBs now:

Mcintosh

Fletcher

Blades

Henson

Wilson

Jackson

Riley

Jarmon

Orakpo

Carter

Alexander

Current LBs who have played the 3-4:

Carter ....... and he was traded because he was awful at it

If we didnt have depth before, what do we have now? No one at lb is playing their natural position, and half of our great depth at dl are now lbs. I feel we should have either picked up more linebackers through the FA or traded for some. We should wait til next year to switch to a full blown 3-4. Hopefully by then we can rebuild through the draft at that position.

[Santana_Fan]

I'd like to see Chris Wilson be the starter.

[rk3025]

Defense does not show it's hand and with basic calls, I thought they played well enough to go no loss season.

The Bills had 121 yards of offense going in to the fourth quarter.

I'll take such horrible play any week.

[Ryman of the North]

Ryaman of The North:

Ive been in agreement with you since it was announced that we would be switching formations to the 3-4. Many of your points are valid' date=' such as Haslett's inability to field a great defense (He a lb coach when the steelers were great. They got worse when he becamse the defensive head coach). Our team is perfectly suited for a 4-3 right now. We have been building this for years.

I do however like Haslett's fire and energy. He got Haynesworth to work his ass off and accept the system. Thats impressive and should not be understated. My biggest frustration with him though is that he is stuck in that same coach mentality that we have seen from our coaches for YEARS. " The system works. Its the execution". Well im sorry, but we should be running a 4-3 until we have the pieces to go to a 3-4. We are just not ready.

I was under the impression that we would have picked up a bunch of lbs to fit the new system, but we didnt and are in quite a pickle of what to do with our roster. Its not even square pegs in round holes. Its apples to oranges. Here is our current situation:

DL as of last year:

Jarmon

Orakpo

Haynesworth

Daniels

Carriker

Carter

Alexander

Komoeatu

Golston

Holliday

DL who are now Lbs:

Jarmon

Orakpo

Carter

Alexander

Almost 50% of our DL have been switched to the LB position.

LBs as of last year:

Mcintosh

Fletcher

Blades

Henson

Wilson

Jackson

Riley

LBs now:

Mcintosh

Fletcher

Blades

Henson

Wilson

Jackson

Riley

Jarmon

Orakpo

Carter

Alexander

Current LBs who have played the 3-4:

Carter ....... and he was traded because he was awful at it

If we didnt have depth before, what do we have now? No one at lb is playing their natural position, and half of our great depth at dl are now lbs. I feel we should have either picked up more linebackers through the FA or traded for some. We should wait til next year to switch to a full blown 3-4. Hopefully by then we can rebuild through the draft at that position.[/quote']

Haslett has always been known as a motivator and a great position coach, and I am actually very impressed that he got the players to buy in to this aborted mission. I actually even like him as a position coach for lbs, however this is yet another example of the Skins hiring a coordinator as a head coach who then tries to remold the team.

my biggest issue with the 3-4 is very simple, we are not even remotely a better team with a 3-4 defence and wont be for a long time. we didnt have any of the pieces (aside from arguably Daniels who is old and fragile and best in a rotation and Rak who is so athletic that people forget that he is far better with a hand in the dirt.)

On paper this may have looked like a good idea, and even some normally intelligent people on this board bought in and drank the koolaid but speaking as a DC myself and as a former player who went through one of these gongshows.

just because something is in vogue doesnt mean its a great fit FOR US. remember when Spurrier decided we would become a strictly passing team in one offseason despite the fact that we didnt even one elite pass protector on our Oline and instead had one very solid one and the rest of our line was built to smash face in the running game? how did that work?

Im just tired or watching us rebuild and fill holes only to decide that we need to chnage and then having to completely rebuild and throwing away the patience we already used.

we used to be a team built around the back 7, then we finally signed some Dline , then we finally signed a stud DT and a stud de (Rak and AH) but then we had no real OLB so we moved our stud de to OLB ffs , now we decide to blow it all up again? I havent had a team to be proud of since 1992 for a guy who is used to winning all the time that is unacceptable.

[Ryman of the North]

Defense does not show it's hand and with basic calls, I thought they played well enough to go no loss season.

we dont get to play the bills 16 times

[zoony]

One of the few times I agree with Ryman.

I am actually okay with the new coaching staff implementing a change to the 3-4. But going into this season with the depth we have at linebacker would be concerning in a 4-3, much less a 3-4.

Bill Parcells is a good example. When he took over the Cowboys he shelved his plans for a 3-4 based on the personnel he had to work with- implementing it later when he had a better mix. (and it was still a disaster, lol)

But, one thing I do know about watching football, you just don't know. You never do, even when you are sure you do. This defense could surprise us all.

...