WP: Top Secret America

[China]

Secret

[gbear]

Maybe they already have a system in place that funnels the information in.

I would hope so.

It's just if a, meaning one, standardized system were in use, it would be very easy to see how many reports we have about the Iranian 3rd runner up in the little town of xyz. If they were using a methodical common naming convention complete with a decent audit trail including time/date stamps, I would think it should be fairly easy to quantify how much duplication exists.

It would also serve as a way to see information which may be different, not just repackaged, when one is looking for all possible angles to a world event. From this article, it seems that is not the case.

As for getting past a legacy systems in place in most of the organizations, I've not seen a system change yet which hasn't had to overcome some resistance from legacy system users. That doesn't mean the legacy system was what the organizations should continue using. At some point, the question should come up as to whether the legacy system is still performing optimally for the organizational goals. From the article, it would appear the answer is no.

[Thiebear]

We used to make Hurrican patterns and possible landing locations TOP SECRET in 1991/1992. It used to boggle the mind what we considered what should be considered a top 2% item.

Also: Quite a few Top Secret/Secret system are not connected to a "network" , the hard drives are in a safe, you check them out. you sign them back in.. the 'network' doesn't go outside that room. I don't know the behind the scenes re-cordination of such data, but it seems to make it difficult to organize.

[Popeman38]

The article claims that we have 854,000 workers with TS clearance. The American workforce in 2009 was 154,400,000. With 9% unemployment.

Do the math, and a whopping 0.55% of the American workforce hold TC clearances.

OH THE HORROR!

Seriously, throwing out numbers without providing a reference point is the Washington Post's "go to" move nowadays. Gotta move the needle somehow.

[twa]

The article claims that we have 854,000 workers with TS clearance. The American workforce in 2009 was 154,400,000. With 9% unemployment.

Do the math, and a whopping 0.55% of the American workforce hold TC clearances.

OH THE HORROR!

Seriously, throwing out numbers without providing a reference point is the Washington Post's "go to" move nowadays. Gotta move the needle somehow.

It is rather comical,especially since a TS clearance is needed in many jobs simply to function.

Three of my kids have them and are not part of the intelligence network.

[Elessar78]

The article claims that we have 854,000 workers with TS clearance. The American workforce in 2009 was 154,400,000. With 9% unemployment.

Do the math, and a whopping 0.55% of the American workforce hold TC clearances.

OH THE HORROR!

Seriously, throwing out numbers without providing a reference point is the Washington Post's "go to" move nowadays. Gotta move the needle somehow.

I don't think it was the Post's intention to say we have too many workers with TS Clearance. Their point was the number in relation to the number of intelligence workers in the various agencies.

[Popeman38]

I don't think it was the Post's intention to say we have too many workers with TS Clearance. Their point was the number in relation to the number of intelligence workers in the various agencies.

Well, when they qualify that 854,000 as being more than the population of DC, I would say that they are claiming the numbers have swollen too much. Otherwise, why qualify that number in size without qualifying the overall workforce?

[herrmag]

I know quite a bit about this subject. All I can say is that the WaPo is doing a lot of foreign intelligence services a great service.

[Elessar78]

I was wondering the same thing and wouldn't it stand to reason that a good foreign intelligence agency would know this stuff already? I hope our intelligence agency knows the intelligence makeup of the likes of North Korea, Iran, Russia and China.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

The information seemed pretty general. Would it really benefit another country to know how many people have access to this type of information or am I missing other facts that the Post touched on?

[Popeman38]

I was wondering the same thing and wouldn't it stand to reason that a good foreign intelligence agency would know this stuff already? I hope our intelligence agency knows the intelligence makeup of the likes of North Korea, Iran, Russia and China.

Well, they used to have to actually work to put the pieces of the puzzle together. Now they simply click a link, capture some screenshots, and take the rest of the day off. Saved them time and energy. You can even get a Google Map of each location. Smart, no?

[Popeman38]

The information seemed pretty general. Would it really benefit another country to know how many people have access to this type of information or am I missing other facts that the Post touched on?

Location, location, location.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Location, location, location.

And that helps them how?

...not being difficult, I just am slow with this stuff.

[Popeman38]

And that helps them how?

...not being difficult, I just am slow with this stuff.

If you wanted to gather intel on our intel, where would you target?

[Elessar78]

Well, they used to have to actually work to put the pieces of the puzzle together. Now they simply click a link, capture some screenshots, and take the rest of the day off. Saved them time and energy. You can even get a Google Map of each location. Smart, no?

C'mon. You actually believe that, say, the Russians have just been twiddling their thumbs for nine years as intelligence agencies started popping up like wildfilowers in the DC suburbs?

Look if a newspaper like the WP, one that has many other story priorities to cover, can get a hold of this information. A foreign entity whose sole purpose to find out this kind of information (with millions of dollars, satellites, and numerous operatives) surely can as well.

I'm not naive enough to think that Russian/Chinese/Israeli intelligence gets their info from the Washington Post. If what was in that article is their first hint of our intelligence capacity, then we have nothing to fear in this world.

To me, the most damning thing in these articles so far is that we have all this intel but no way to coordinate between agencies and that there's so much of it that it's impossible to know what is relevant or not at a given time. That much could be valuable to our enemies.

[Elessar78]

No one else still reading this article series?

[greenspandan]

reads like a bunch of stuff i thought was common knowledge already.

to respond to popeman38, i doubt any of this is remotely newsworthy to any foreign intelligence.

[nonniey]

War in Iraq - Cash grab, yes. Endless war scenario, by the "neo-cons" HELL NO. The orignal gameplan for Iraq that was prepared by Rumsfeld was one that had no such "endless" war possibilities. The dems took their red pens to it and wanted us to take a more "Diplomatic" approach. The years of insurgency following the fall of Baghdad, was due to beurocratic red tape, which was a tactic used by the dems to regain power as it sunk the Bush administration, and the Republican party. If the US would have gone into Iraq as Rumsfeld proposed, Iraq would have had a different outcome.

The "War on Terrorism" was a way to ensure tax-money is allocated, much like the "War on Drugs".

No, you got it wrong. It was Rumsfeld (and Franks) that discarded Shinseki's advice on a bigger force. Although, I agree that the Democrats political games after the invasion greatly hurt the US and allied war efforts. Bottomline the Bush administration screwed up big time in the execution of the first four years of that campaign, but finally got it right in the end.

[sacase]

C'mon. You actually believe that, say, the Russians have just been twiddling their thumbs for nine years as intelligence agencies started popping up like wildfilowers in the DC suburbs?

Look if a newspaper like the WP, one that has many other story priorities to cover, can get a hold of this information. A foreign entity whose sole purpose to find out this kind of information (with millions of dollars, satellites, and numerous operatives) surely can as well.

I'm not naive enough to think that Russian/Chinese/Israeli intelligence gets their info from the Washington Post. If what was in that article is their first hint of our intelligence capacity, then we have nothing to fear in this world.

To me, the most damning thing in these articles so far is that we have all this intel but no way to coordinate between agencies and that there's so much of it that it's impossible to know what is relevant or not at a given time. That much could be valuable to our enemies.

Ever hear of OSINT? Open Source Intelligence. Yes a lot of intelligence agencies get information from Papers. Its a wealth of knowledge, especially in an open society like ours.

You would be suprised what they didn't know. Now they know what areas to go to if they want to look for information about specific programs. Not a good thing.

[Elessar78]

reads like a bunch of stuff i thought was common knowledge already.

Just out of curiousity. You knew that there are multiple redundant intelligence agencies that employ close to a million people that don't share information with each other? What about contractors costing more than full time employees? Details like the real estate demands and functional parameters of that vast network of agencies?

[Titaw]

Just out of curiousity. You knew that there are multiple redundant intelligence agencies that employ close to a million people that don't share information with each other? What about contractors costing more than full time employees? Details like the real estate demands and functional parameters of that vast network of agencies?

Yes! It is relatively common knowledge.

[greenspandan]

Just out of curiousity. You knew that there are multiple redundant intelligence agencies that employ close to a million people that don't share information with each other? What about contractors costing more than full time employees? Details like the real estate demands and functional parameters of that vast network of agencies?

well sure. i guess i'm surprised that people are surprised. maybe i just take it for granted having lived and worked here all my life.

[Elessar78]

While I can't say it's a surprise to me either but the details escaped me, I didn't know there were many new agencies. My guess would've been that they all answered to the NSA or something and didn't operate independently.

[SloppyOneXXVI]

There aren't a "ton" of new agencies!

Uhhhh, this "reporting" causes more problems than it answers. There are 17 intelligence agencies. "New" agencies created post 9/11 generally answer to older agencies. Technically, everyone is supposed to answer to the DNI, but that doesn't always happen. Go ask Joe Biden and he'll side with the DCI.

I would suggest anyone who reads this report goes to dni.gov afterwards. Get both sides...

[Popeman38]

Just out of curiousity. You knew that there are multiple redundant intelligence agencies that employ close to a million people that don't share information with each other? What about contractors costing more than full time employees? Details like the real estate demands and functional parameters of that vast network of agencies?

Paper did not take into accounts benefits and retirement. Those alone make each contractor about 50% cheaper than a government employee. The contracting company is on the hook for the benefits (if they offer them, some pay higher but offer no benefits), and the contractor has no guaranteed retirement, just a 401(k). Once again, the Washington Post uses numbers without qualifying them. Status-quo for them. Raise eybrows and piss people off.