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SportingNews.Com: "How success for the NFL's three first-year head coaches will be measured" [Shanahan]


GenMgr

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For me personally, with the offseason moves that have been made by the new regime and the aging of our roster, anything less than a 10 win season will be a dissapointment.

With McNabb? .500 is acceptable to some of you? My ass.

.....

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For me personally, with the offseason moves that have been made by the new regime and the aging of our roster, anything less than a 10 win season will be a dissapointment.

With McNabb? .500 is acceptable to some of you? My ass.

.....

As long as Rex Grossman is our #2, .500 will look pretty good.

:helmet:The Rook

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I agree...calling it ill-advised is funny considering that no one really knows how it will work out. People act like we're messing with the 2000 Ravens D or something. The D was easily the better unit last year, but it was far from perfect.

I personally think the Ravens have had the most consistent D in the past decade or so and even they switched from a 4-3 to a 3-4. Ray-ray did just fine adjusting as did everybody else. They didn't miss a beat.

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For me personally, with the offseason moves that have been made by the new regime and the aging of our roster, anything less than a 10 win season will be a dissapointment.

With McNabb? .500 is acceptable to some of you? My ass.

.....

Exactly. I expect nothing less than 10 wins. This team has the ability to do it now. They need to pull their heads out of their collective asses for once and make it happen.

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If we were taking the stockpile draft picks, build slow approach, I'd be thrilled with .500.

However, trading multiple draft pics for key pro-bowler additions, signing several aging veterans, and bringing on a franchise QB with 3 years left in him, .500 is for fools.

Your expectation should be higher, much higher. The front office has made win-now moves.

Now please don't confuse expectations with what I think will happen. I'm not predicting anything, I'm just saying where my expectations are with the offseason we've had.

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I personally think the Ravens have had the most consistent D in the past decade or so and even they switched from a 4-3 to a 3-4. Ray-ray did just fine adjusting as did everybody else. They didn't miss a beat.

Good point...I didn't even remember that.

But, either way, we're not messing with a ridiculously awesome D here. We've had a pretty solid D over the past 5-6 years...that's it. We haven't generated turnovers and, lately, we've struggled to close out games on defense. So, why not look to improve?

I think calling this move ill-advised is a little premature. There's the possibility that it won't work out, but no one can really guess how this will go with any certainty.

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As long as Rex Grossman is our #2, .500 will look pretty good.

Even if McNabb misses his annual 2 games, Rex Grossman will NOT gauge the success or failure of the Skins, that's like saying Todd Collins only got us four wins last season.

I actually don't think there's much of a difference btw Collins and Grossman, just different things not to like. Collins helped us to the playoffs, Grossman helped the Bears to a SB. I don't like him, but he's by far better than many many other 2nd string QBs.

......in other news, Mike Florio write his first article. Congratulations Mike, that's probably what it feels like to be a REAL journalist.

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I expect us to be much better in 2011 than in 2010. There will probably be growing pains in the first half of this season offensively and defensively. So no, I wouldn't be pissed if we went .500 this year. We still play in the toughest division in football and we're bringing in just about a completely new coaching staff. I definitely think we have the oppurtunity to win 10 games but a .500 season this year isn't a complete failure to me.

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I don't care what any of these guys think. The fact is, no matter what we've changed, the most important change has been the attitude/culture in the organization. Shanny and Allen have brought a winning attitude to the team. Fat Albert, the 3-4 or the media will not bring this team down. No matter if we finish 6-10. 8-8 or 12-4, the attitude of the team has changed for the better.

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For me personally, with the offseason moves that have been made by the new regime and the aging of our roster, anything less than a 10 win season will be a dissapointment.

With McNabb? .500 is acceptable to some of you? My ass.

.....

Only acceptable if we at least show some sembalance of a good team. Meaning, not being embarrassing on the field (i.e. losing to the Lions/Cheifs). As long as we are extremely competitive I can live with a first year of 8-8. But like you, I'd at least like 10 wins or more.

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For me personally, with the offseason moves that have been made by the new regime and the aging of our roster, anything less than a 10 win season will be a dissapointment.

With McNabb? .500 is acceptable to some of you? My ass.

.....

I tend to agree with you, and if we were playing last years schedule I think 10 wins would be close to a lock. However this year on paper we have a pretty brutal schedule - we could play a LOT better and not see that reflected in 6 extra wins.

The goal has to be making the playoffs though and that requires we get over .500 .....

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If we were taking the stockpile draft picks, build slow approach, I'd be thrilled with .500.

However, trading multiple draft pics for key pro-bowler additions, signing several aging veterans, and bringing on a franchise QB with 3 years left in him, .500 is for fools.

Your expectation should be higher, much higher. The front office has made win-now moves.

Now please don't confuse expectations with what I think will happen. I'm not predicting anything, I'm just saying where my expectations are with the offseason we've had.

Well said Zoony. The Skins must become a playoff calibur team over the next few seasons (this one included) in order for this Shanahan/Allen/3-4/McNabb experiment to be considered anything but a failure. The window for this team was nearly shut before all these moves (starting with Shanahan and Allen) took place, thereby blasting that window wide open again. One has to expect that this team can win now.

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I'm going for 10 wins as well. I think we're going to have a great season! We all know that a LOT of the problem the last two years was just bad coaching and bad scheme. As likable as Zorn was, he and Blache had NO business as the HC, OC and DC. With Shanahan who is undoubtedly an excellent coach, EVERYTHING changes.

Remember that idiots like Florio are still hanging on to the idea that the Crackgirls are "a good team," and that somehow Philthy is better without McNabb.

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There is a fallacy that many people are holding onto: that our defense has been borderline elite.

True, we have ranked in the top 5 and top 10 for many years as far as yards allowed. But the game is about points and turnovers. We do FAR worse in these areas.

Haslett is coming in here and trying to generate a game winning defense, not a defense that plays to not lose. I don't expect Florio to get that, but he shouldn't be calling it a mistake 30 days before training camp.

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If we were taking the stockpile draft picks, build slow approach, I'd be thrilled with .500.

However, trading multiple draft pics for key pro-bowler additions, signing several aging veterans, and bringing on a franchise QB with 3 years left in him, .500 is for fools.

Your expectation should be higher, much higher. The front office has made win-now moves.

Now please don't confuse expectations with what I think will happen. I'm not predicting anything, I'm just saying where my expectations are with the offseason we've had.

Total agreement. Shanahallen has gone for "win now". So that should be what standard they are held accountable for.

Once they've stopped putting the pieces together this preseason, I hope they take a different tack. Stop trading away our draft picks and start a youth movement. Out of two possible approaches they could take:

1. Gibbs 2.0 - Keep making the kind of moves year after year as the Skins did this season, "win now" moves - they darn better be a playoff contender every other year.

2. Drafting - With hopefully a solid base now, start building with young guys, that can stay with the team longer and we can afford more of them than aging vets - I'd settle for a couple losing seasons if it looked like we were putting a solid deep team together and weren't going to panic and fire the coaching staff.

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I agree, it seems like the team is going "win now" but I'm tempering my expectations after the last 20 years. If we win 8 games, doubling last year's, I'll be happy and feel like we're headed in the right direction.

If it weren't for our brutal schedule, I'd have higher hopes, but it doesn't look good and I think anyone saying, "10 or more I'm disappointed," is pretty much setting yourself up.

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Once they've stopped putting the pieces together this preseason, I hope they take a different tack. Stop trading away our draft picks and start a youth movement.

I think this is an interesting point. I also hope they change tack & I think that will be more of an indication of how the FO wants to operate.

At the moment, I personally think too much is made of the 'win-now approach' & 'trading away draft picks' type of debates.

The team needed a QB. The FA market was dire & Bradford became a pipe dream. The team need two OT's. It drafted one first up to its credit, plus the FA market was also dire here so we traded for Brown. At least the trade was an exchange of picks which could see us netting a 5th rounder back. Even the trade for Carriker was an exchange of picks with a marginal loss in terms of value. Plus, the draft situation in 2010 was 'worsened' by the 3rd round pick used for Jarmon by the previous regime. And let's not forget we have that 2012 4th rounder awaiting us from the JC trade :silly:.

So all in all, the McNabb trade aside, for my money this FO hasn't shipped out too much from our draft stocks. I actually think they have been shrewd in their trades. And the merits of the McNabb trade depends on your view on the QB we had, the importance of a QB to the success of a team, and your view on the other options available to the team to improve in that area at a lower cost. I didn't see many.

As for signing aging veterans, the team did cut about a dozen guys from last years roster, most over the age of 30. So, I'd say that was neither here nor there in the grand scale of things.

Finally, we avoided throwing money at the FA market. Plenty of big fish around and non of them washed up here . Plus, we have the ongoing AH debacle, which could see him leave town.

So, I'm not really sure how all that becomes a 100% win now mentality. Not yet anyway :ols:

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I think this is an interesting point. I also hope they change tack & I think that will be more of an indication of how the FO wants to operate.

At the moment' date=' I personally think too much is made of the 'win-now approach' & 'trading away draft picks' type of debates.

The team needed a QB. The FA market was dire & Bradford became a pipe dream. The team need two OT's. It drafted one first up to its credit, plus the FA market was also dire here so we traded for Brown. At least the trade was an exchange of picks which could see us netting a 5th rounder back. Even the trade for Carriker was an exchange of picks with a marginal loss in terms of value. Plus, the draft situation in 2010 was 'worsened' by the 3rd round pick used for Jarmon by the previous regime. And let's not forget we have that 2012 4th rounder awaiting us from the JC trade :silly:.

So all in all, the McNabb trade aside, for my money this FO hasn't shipped out too much from our draft stocks. I actually think they have been shrewd in their trades. And the merits of the McNabb trade depends on your view on the QB we had, the importance of a QB to the success of a team, and your view on the other options available to the team to improve in that area at a lower cost. I didn't see many.

As for signing aging veterans, the team did cut about a dozen guys from last years roster, most over the age of 30. So, I'd say that was neither here nor there in the grand scale of things.

Finally, we avoided throwing money at the FA market. Plenty of big fish around and non of them washed up here . Plus, we have the ongoing AH debacle, which could see him leave town.

So, I'm not really sure how all that becomes a 100% win now mentality. Not yet anyway :ols:[/quote']We got a little older (bout half a year team average), and McNabb isn't a long-term solution even if we re-sign him. If Shanahallen repeat this offseason every year, it's Gibbs 2.0 all over again. Which I'd be cool with as long as we get playoff shots. But I agree we'd be better off finally rebuilding "the right way", I'd be happy with that even if we suck at first.

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. If Shanahallen repeat this offseason every year, it's Gibbs 2.0 all over again.

Yeah, the key for me is they have tried to address the glaring needs at QB & both OT positions. Nothing is a given, so we have yet to see how those move play out. But that's why I can live with this approach for now.

The prospect of McNabb, Trent Williams & Jammal Brown tops Jason Campbell, Levi Jones & Stephon Heyer, the final starters we had at those respective positions last year, by quite some distance.

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I consider myself a realist and not a blind homer, but IMO, this team wins a minimum of 9 games and has the potential to be a 12-win Super Bowl team. You've got a Mike Shanahan who is motivated to prove something after being fired, which worked out okay in Denver; you have a legit, Pro Bowl QB and real leader at the position who similarly has something to prove after being run out of Philly; the offensive line is dramatically improved, via personnel, coaching and scheme; IMO, we're going to see the Clinton Portis of about 2005 -- maybe not what he was in Denver, but close to the stud he was his second year here; you've got an offensive staff who knows what it's doing and will outscheme a lot of staffs on the schedule and put our players in position to move the chains in chunks and put points on the board; and you've got a defense that is looking to attack, create turnovers and short-fields for the offense with a potential 15-sack beast coming off the edge and one of the best leaders in football quarterbacking it from the middle. I think this team is going to surprise a lot of people and capable of competing for the right to go to Dallas in February.

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We got a little older (bout half a year team average), and McNabb isn't a long-term solution even if we re-sign him. If Shanahallen repeat this offseason every year, it's Gibbs 2.0 all over again. Which I'd be cool with as long as we get playoff shots. But I agree we'd be better off finally rebuilding "the right way", I'd be happy with that even if we suck at first.

But why would they do this every year? You bring in your own people to begin with. Allen did this. Gibbs did this. Pretty much any Super Bowl-winning coach does this.

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