WP:Democrats digging harder than ever for dirt on Republicans

[Popeman38]

I never said that Obama cleaned up what Bush did; I said that he's in the process. That distinction is very important.

Legislative changes are long-term; there's no undoing eight years of damage in barely one-and-a-half.

What keeps us on the same path? Withdrawal of troops? A strong stance with Israel? Health care reform? Wall Street reform?

And, again, spending is necessary. Go get something for free and I'll shut my mouth.

For the umpteenth time, just because you support what Obama is doing and agree with his opinion, does not make it him cleaning up (or in the process of) the mess Bush left. I can argue (with facts) that Obama has done nothing but further the mess that he inherited. That would be my opinion. Just as all these posts of yours in this thread are your opinion. Talking down to anyone that disagrees with you does nothing to help your cause.

[NewCliche21]

Withdrawal of troops? From where? Iraq? When was that path decided on?

Strong stance with Israel? http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/07/06/AR2010070604005.html?hpid=opinionsbox1

About the only change you can point to is Health Care Reform...how did they do that against those pesky Republicans?

Yes, from Iraq, and he's doing it.

Did you notice anything about Israel basically ending their Gaza blockade? You don't think that Obama had anything to do with that? Really?

For the umpteenth time, just because you support what Obama is doing and agree with his opinion, does not make it him cleaning up (or in the process of) the mess Bush left. I can argue (with facts) that Obama has done nothing but further the mess that he inherited. That would be my opinion. Just as all these posts of yours in this thread are your opinion. Talking down to anyone that disagrees with you does nothing to help your cause.

I'm sorry if it comes off as talking down to you; I don't mean to do that. I'll stop.

[Redskins Diehard]

Yes, from Iraq, and he's doing it.

Did you notice anything about Israel basically ending their Gaza blockade? You don't think that Obama had anything to do with that? Really?

I'm sorry if it comes off as talking down to you; I don't mean to do that. I'll stop.

"Basically ending their Gaza blockade"....good one . You didn't read the article did you?

When was the draw down in Iraq decided upon? I think you forgot to answer that one. And you should probably be more specific since there is a troop buildup going on also. Let me guess "against the people that actually attacked us"

[joeknows]

democrats diggin for dirt on republicans? lol that shouldnt require much more than a teaspoon.

[War Paint]

It just baffles me how someone can hate Bush so much and love Obama, when both Bush and Obama are almost the same.

Both heavily funded by Goldman Sachs.

Obama is expanding the wars.

Bush started the bailouts, Obama escalated them.

Obama extended the Patriot Act.

Both grew and are growing the size of government.

I still can't believe people fall for the Republican vs Democrat paradigm. The only thing different between the two parties is the rhetoric. By their deeds you shall know them. With the exception of a very few politicians, most are bought and paid for by corporate interests and Wall Street.

I promise you that if Obama does lose in 2012, the Republican elected isn't going to change squat. I'm sure the rhetoric will be conservative, but I promise you that the Republican president will be funded by bankers, keep the Patriot Act, keep Obama care, grow government, probably expand the war to Iran, etc...

To all conservatives, if you think a Republican president is going to fix or change anything of any significance, you are fooling yourself.

[NewCliche21]

"Basically ending their Gaza blockade"....good one . You didn't read the article did you?

When was the draw down in Iraq decided upon? I think you forgot to answer that one. And you should probably be more specific since there is a troop buildup going on also. Let me guess "against the people that actually attacked us"

You honestly think that A had nothing to do with B? That's funny.

I didn't forget to answer it; I said that there is a difference between promising something in a future administration and actually doing it.

And yes, Afghanistan should've been the only war to begin with. Sorry, I don't like seeing tens of thousands die while allowing the Taliban to regroup because someone tried to kill my daddy.

[Teller]

Wrong.

It shows that he's not paying attention. Presidents, like them or not, do make progress or else the nation would be where it was.

Is the country where it was when Obama took office?

No.

Have there been massive legislative changes?

Yes.

It's not a matter of opinion; it's a matter of fact.

No it's not. Unemployment is still at 9.5%. The healthcare was passed, despite the objections of a very solid majority of Americans. Gitmo's still open. Iraq and Afghanistan are still a mess. And there are legitimate fears of a double-dip recession.

Add to that the Gulf spill, which the president said his federal government has been in charge of from Day One, and it's hard not to view the first two years of this presidency as a colossal cluster.

If I was wrong, democratic strategists wouldn't be ADMITTING to not being able to run on Obama's record.

I know it's hard for some liberals to get through their skulls, but it is possible to view the same information and reach a different conclusion. And it's even possible to do it without insulting those who disagree with you. Amazing that libs get called elitist, no?

[The Evil Genius]

The healthcare was passed, despite the objections of a very solid majority of Americans.

Did I forget to vote in the federal election again for health care?

Shoot.

[Teller]

Did I forget to vote in the federal election again for health care?

Shoot.

Did I say that it was a referendum?

Your constant effort to deflect is pretty telling.

[The Evil Genius]

You said a very solid majority of Americans objected to it. If it wasn't in an election, what is the basis of your claim?

A poll?

Really, a poll?

[Teller]

You said a very solid majority of Americans objected to it. If it wasn't in an election, what is the basis of your claim?

A poll?

Really, a poll?

You have a better idea?

Or do you really think everyone who voted for Obama supported every position he had? Really, every one?

[Redskins Diehard]

You honestly think that A had nothing to do with B? That's funny.

I didn't forget to answer it; I said that there is a difference between promising something in a future administration and actually doing it.

And yes, Afghanistan should've been the only war to begin with. Sorry, I don't like seeing tens of thousands die while allowing the Taliban to regroup because someone tried to kill my daddy.

You honestly think the Gaza blockade is "basically ended"? And that our President made that happen? I am not sure which is more ludicrous of a proposition.

Iraq had nothing to do with the outcome at Tora Bora. I would love to see you make that argument, would be at least mildly entertaining.

You are right in one regard....in Afghanistan he changed from his General to Bush's!

[Redskins Diehard]

Or do you really think everyone who voted for Obama supported every position he had? Really, every one?

I think there are a few of them. Some right here in this thread:silly:

[NewCliche21]

You honestly think the Gaza blockade is "basically ended"? And that our President made that happen? I am not sure which is more ludicrous of a proposition.

Iraq had nothing to do with the outcome at Tora Bora. I would love to see you make that argument, would be at least mildly entertaining.

You are right in one regard....in Afghanistan he changed from his General to Bush's!

When they go from not allowing squat to allowing anything but certain construciton materials, I'd say that it ended. And if you think that Israel's biggest ally didn't have anything to do with that, then you need to brush up on your history. You sure do have a strange sense of humor if that makes you laugh.

I don't know where I said that Iraq had anything to do with Tora Bora. I said that not going after bin Laden in Tora Bora was a massive mistake. Iraq was also a massive mistake. Those two things are not mutually exclusive.

He chose a good general. Did you know that generals aren't elected or affiliated with political parties?

[NewCliche21]

You have a better idea?

Or do you really think everyone who voted for Obama supported every position he had? Really, every one?

Health care was a pretty big part of his platform. It was hard to vote for Obama without voting for health care.

[Riggo#44]

Wrong. It shows he disagrees with your opinion.

Exactly. What has Obama done, really...other than make speeches? As someone pointed out he has failed to close gitmo, has done nothing to improve the situation in Iraq or Afghanistan, pushed through an unpopular, and in my opinion, useless, HC reform...

And considering his approval rating has been plummeting over the last year, it looks like his nifty speeches are starting to fall of deaf ears...

[The Tris]

When they go from not allowing squat to allowing anything but certain construciton materials, I'd say that it ended. And if you think that Israel's biggest ally didn't have anything to do with that, then you need to brush up on your history. You sure do have a strange sense of humor if that makes you laugh.

I don't know where I said that Iraq had anything to do with Tora Bora. I said that not going after bin Laden in Tora Bora was a massive mistake. Iraq was also a massive mistake. Those two things are not mutually exclusive.

He chose a good general. Did you know that generals aren't elected or affiliated with political parties?

It is telling that these are the hooks upon which the success of the Obama Administration up to this point are hung on.

[NewCliche21]

Either way, I'm out of this thread since it's just back to the typical circular arguments from all sides.

As usual, sorry for coming across as a dick. I'll work on it!

Remember: We're all Americans and we all want the same thing for this country; we just have different ways of getting there. Nobody's stupid, nobody's wrong or right, but we can disagree without being at the throats of each other.

[ABQCOWBOY]

Exactly. What has Obama done, really...other than make speeches? As someone pointed out he has failed to close gitmo, has done nothing to improve the situation in Iraq or Afghanistan, pushed through an unpopular, and in my opinion, useless, HC reform...

And considering his approval rating has been plummeting over the last year, it looks like his nifty speeches are starting to fall of deaf ears...

According to the latest polls, the Left and the Right are fairly steady in their opinions of him. The Left is 8 points down but still very high approval rating. The Right is 9 points down but still very low approval rating. The real killers are the Independents. They are 18 points down and falling. These are the folks that got the President elected. They are the ones who will keep from being re-elected.

[Redskins Diehard]

When they go from not allowing squat to allowing anything but certain construciton materials, I'd say that it ended. And if you think that Israel's biggest ally didn't have anything to do with that, then you need to brush up on your history. You sure do have a strange sense of humor if that makes you laugh.

I don't know where I said that Iraq had anything to do with Tora Bora. I said that not going after bin Laden in Tora Bora was a massive mistake. Iraq was also a massive mistake. Those two things are not mutually exclusive.

He chose a good general. Did you know that generals aren't elected or affiliated with political parties?

I suspect the dead humanitarian aid workers had a little something to do with the "change" in the blockade. But even our hard-line stance with Israel(which I agreed with by the way) has now gone the way of every other President. Enough so that even Dana Milbank of all people wrote an article about it. Time will tell how much change actually happened with the blockade.

Not going after bin Laden in Tora Bora is a pretty poor representation of the facts.

Yes, he did choose a good general. I am glad he learned something from the prior administration....even if he or his supporters would never come out and say that.

Oh, and I pretty happy that he hasn't delivered a lot of the change he promised in the campaign. Whether he made the promises to just get elected or really was naive enough to think EVERYTHING Bush did was wrong I am glad he has kept some of the policies.

[Box76]

It just baffles me how someone can hate Bush so much and love Obama, when both Bush and Obama are almost the same.

Both heavily funded by Goldman Sachs.

Obama is expanding the wars.

Bush started the bailouts, Obama escalated them.

Obama extended the Patriot Act.

Both grew and are growing the size of government.

I still can't believe people fall for the Republican vs Democrat paradigm. The only thing different between the two parties is the rhetoric. By their deeds you shall know them. With the exception of a very few politicians, most are bought and paid for by corporate interests and Wall Street.

I promise you that if Obama does lose in 2012, the Republican elected isn't going to change squat. I'm sure the rhetoric will be conservative, but I promise you that the Republican president will be funded by bankers, keep the Patriot Act, keep Obama care, grow government, probably expand the war to Iran, etc...

To all conservatives, if you think a Republican president is going to fix or change anything of any significance, you are fooling yourself.

I agree. Both sides playing the same game...to divide and conquer.

[Teller]

Health care was a pretty big part of his platform. It was hard to vote for Obama without voting for health care.

Hmm....Or could you have been in an extremely difficult financial situation, and fallen for his "giving fathers who pay child support 1/2 the tax credit" among a few other things, and held your nose on the rest?

According to the polls, a lot of that happened. And according to the facts, his IMMEDIATE dismissal of that child support break, shows how he actually feels about "working class Americans."

[aREDSKIN]

Health care was a pretty big part of his platform. It was hard to vote for Obama without voting for health care.

And IMO that's why the dems go down in NOV and Obama is not reelected. See current polling numbers of independents posted by ABQ. You might want it but imo a majority don't as implemented.

[PeterMP]

According to the latest polls, the Left and the Right are fairly steady in their opinions of him. The Left is 8 points down but still very high approval rating. The Right is 9 points down but still very low approval rating. The real killers are the Independents. They are 18 points down and falling. These are the folks that got the President elected. They are the ones who will keep from being re-elected.

Opinion polls like that are pretty worthless in terms of who people would vote for.

[Teller]

Opinion polls like that are pretty worthless in terms of who people would vote for.

Or when they don't say what you want 'em to. :pfft: