WP: Charles Mann calls out Albert Haynesworth

[addicted]

That argument is getting really old. It is becoming very apparent that a lot of you all hold a grudge against the players because they make a lot of money. For the wear and tear that these players take, compared to other sports, they are UNDER paid.

This is how I feel about many of the posters on the forum today. People hate the fact that these players are making so much more money then they are. If that bothers you then I got three suggestions for you:

1. Go earn the money yourself (you won't do that here)

2. Stop watching football all together (every player is making more then you)

3. Learn to accept that it's life that seperates professional football players from normal folks.

I wouldn't hate someone for being born into money, for winning the lottery, for a team paying someone or any reason they have money. Money don't make the man. The man makes the money, until Hanyesworth shows otherwise hating on him for not being at an optional camp is stupid and I don't care if that opinion comes from the President, Charles Mann, or a hobo. Stupid is as stupid does. Stop hating on Redskins. This is a forum for Redskin fans...why is that so hard to understand?

[TD_washingtonredskins]

He's not commenting on the state of the organization, he is taking direct shots at a player. If some guy that worked for your company 20 years ago comes out of nowhere and starts ripping you for what you do in your free time, I doubt you'll be as understanding.

He's commenting on the biggest story surrounding the organization. It's not like he singled out Reed Doughty to bash the kid. He's responding to what people are discussing re: the Washington Redskins.

Well, your use of "free time" is telling. In Mann's (and my) opinion, off-season team building isn't free time. It's required and necessary to get to the next level. Mann might know as he was one of our best players during 2 Super Bowl runs.

So, all in all, I don't see what the problem is. He's someone who has experienced what it takes to succeed and is commenting on where and how his former organization is failing in that department.

Unfortunately for Haynesworth, when you sign one of the most lucrative contracts in the history of a sport, some expectations come with that. Just as much as some people believe he's well within his right to do whatever he wants despite collecting that money, there are some who believe he is not living up to those expectations.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

This is how I feel about many of the posters on the forum today. People hate the fact that these players are making so much more money then they are.

I wouldn't project that onto the posters who expect more out of some of these players as it's unfair and probably pretty inaccurate.

I have no issue with anyone making as much money as humanly possible in any situation...especially an athlete whose career can end at any minute. But, I do think those huge contracts come with expectations and scrutiny and these guys should be "big boys" about it.

Why couldn't he make the money AND join his teammates in the off-season? Does he have to? Nope. Is it reasonable that if he's one of just a couple no-shows that he'll have to deal with some repercussions in the media? Yep. And, he's being well-compensated to do that, so I wouldn't worry too much about Albert Haynesworth.

[addicted]

I don't care how much an individual player makes. I don't care how much the coach makes.

What I do care about is seeing quality football

Guess what sport? No one is seeing football in June.

And THAT is not going to happen in a team sport when you still have guys with a loser's mentality who are the headliners.

Loser's mentality? Are you AH? No your a hater on a forum. If you were AH then you would know what works for AH might not work for you. If you needed to get in shape and knew you could do the popular thing that didn't work or the unpopular thing that did then which do you choose? Of course you'd choose the popular path. Hating on AH is the popular thing to do now that Soups gone to the black hole. Integrity means doing the right thing when people aren't looking. AH knows himself much better then you think you do. If he says 1 on 1 workouts is better then team activity when it's OPTIONAL then for the betterment of himself and the team then why would he be there?

Why didn't Haynesworth resign with Tennessee any time during the 2 plus years he was working under the franchise label?

It wasn't ONLY the money.

Obviously, Fisher and others in the Titans' organization knew the jekyll and hyde nature of what Haynesworth could do.

He could dominate a football game if in shape and ready to play.

Or he could be a coach killer.

Or he could end up being involved in some ugly incidents like stomping another players' face when lying on the ground or in allegedly threatening his estranged wife.

This guy is not Junior Seau or Darrell Green who is going to 'lead' a defense into the postseason.

This is a guy that OTHER players have to watch and confront when

necessary to get him to perform and stop whining.

All of which this is old news your trying to manipulate into proving your stupid belief that he's coming into camp out of shape. Do you have any proof that he can't lead the Defense? Do you have any proof that the Titans thought this way? Do you have any proof that Tenneessee didn't want to resign him? I've seen some dumb things here today and this takes them all. The hates real strong in you. After Hanyesworth's flavor wears off who's next on your target list?

[addicted]

I wouldn't project that onto the posters who expect more out of some of these players as it's unfair and probably pretty inaccurate.

I have no issue with anyone making as much money as humanly possible in any situation...especially an athlete whose career can end at any minute. But, I do think those huge contracts come with expectations and scrutiny and these guys should be "big boys" about it.

Why couldn't he make the money AND join his teammates in the off-season? Does he have to? Nope. Is it reasonable that if he's one of just a couple no-shows that he'll have to deal with some repercussions in the media? Yep. And, he's being well-compensated to do that, so I wouldn't worry too much about Albert Haynesworth.

Is it? Since AH makes his money which is a fair contract by todays standards that means he must be a role model? In other words the money makes the man? Sorry but I don't think that. You could give a million to a turd and it would still be a turd. You can take the kid from the street by not the street from the kid. In fake ass situations I might agree that's possible but how long did it take Sean Taylor to stop being a thug after he got paid? Real world vs fake world. Try real world for once please

[bulldog]

again, that's not the case in any of my arguments here

money is not the issue. it is HOW the player(s) who receive the money act and what they say vs. what they do.

Haynesworth comes in here and holds a press conference saying he picked #92 to follow in the footsteps of Reggie White and then goes out as a 360 pound whale who can't make it through a half before taking a knee because he is out of gas.

And then after a 4-12 season in which he misses 4 games with ticky-tacky injuries he bails on his new coach and teammates because he is afraid he isn't going to be a bow-down star in the new system being installed.

booh-whoo-whoo :laugh:

Haynesworth is a guy who has never won anything and with his character of the lack of it, probably won't in the future.

that's why Mann and others see him being dealt.

Shanahan is not going to co-exist with Haynesworth for the next 3-4 years folks

I don't HATE Haynesworth personally, I have never met him.

But I DO HATE spending money on season tickets and then see a guy come in and fail to live up to even his own expectations.

Especially, when in this case AFTER THE FACT of his own so-so performances in 2009, he decides to blow off the only coach he has ever had to work with that has won a Super Bowl.

Did it ever occur to Haynesworth that maybe Shanahan unlike Zorn has the 'nut' figured out and has the goods to make this thing go?

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Is it? Since AH makes his money which is a fair contract by todays standards that means he must be a role model? In other words the money makes the man? Sorry but I don't think that. You could give a million to a turd and it would still be a turd. You can take the kid from the street by not the street from the kid. In fake ass situations I might agree that's possible but how long did it take Sean Taylor to stop being a thug after he got paid? Real world vs fake world. Try real world for once please

What are you talking about? Where did I say anything about Haynesworth being a role model? If you're referring to my use of "expectations" then I think you misunderstood.

The Redskins gave the man a lot of their money. As his employer, I think it's reasonable that they expect him to show up for all organizational events (mandatory or voluntary). By definition, he doesn't have to show up for the voluntary ones, but I think it's fine for them to expect him to.

And again, if he doesn't, I think he has to be able to shoulder some of the backlash he'll receive from the media, teammates, fans, etc. It's all part of the gig. In the "real world" you speak of, that would be the case no matter what the organization or who the person. When you invest in someone or something, expectations are attached to that investment.

You are very emotional in your replies...you give the impression that you need to sit back and relax before responding. Please do so and let me know how I'm so off base in my opinions about this situation...please.

[Hitman21ST]

The Redskins gave the man a lot of their money. As his employer, I think it's reasonable that they expect him to show up for all organizational events (mandatory or voluntary). By definition, he doesn't have to show up for the voluntary ones, but I think it's fine for them to expect him to.

I agree 100% with this part of your post. And I'd even ok someone in the organization (current player, coach, FO) calling him out about it. I'm more concerned about the possible ramifications of Haynesworth taking what Mann said and firing back at him. This would turn into the new Portis-LaVar feud. We don't need that as a distraction right now while we're installing two new system/schemes. I hope that he can shoulder this and turn it into a motivational tool to get his ass in gear. I'm worried that he'll let his ego get the best of him and make it another war of the words.

Mann can have his opinion, but I'd rather he be quiet on the subject until Haynesworth shows that he hasn't done anything this offseason.

[bulldog]

let's be honest for a moment. NFL players are not regular employees. Nor are NFL owners like the guy down the street that runs a hardware store.

90% of the Redskins (and a higher % that are under contract - remember McIntosh and Rogers are still restricted free agents) have attended the voluntary sessions with the new coaching staff because they understand more is expected of professionals who carry the privilege of playing in the NFL.

The coach is there. The assistant coaches are there.

If you exclude McIntosh and Rogers who are not signed yet, Haynesworth is one of the only players not to attend ANY of the sessions.

And he never gave Shanahan's offseason program a chance after complaining that Zorn's program didn't get him in shape to play the season.

So, I don't feel sorry for Albert. I don't feel he is being put under duress or being treated unfairly by the powers at be.

If some of you do, perhaps rather than saying those of us on the other side of this debate are projecting our 'hate' for AH maybe YOU should be looking INSIDE YOURSELVES about some latent resentments YOU may be carrying toward your own employers.

Perhaps some of you work jobs where you feel under the 'thumb' of a boss and secretly cheer when a guy like Haynesworth says 'UP YOURS' when Shanahan asks him to do something because you know you can't do the same thing

See, TWO can play at that game folks

[TD_washingtonredskins]

I agree 100% with this part of your post. And I'd even ok someone in the organization (current player, coach, FO) calling him out about it. I'm more concerned about the possible ramifications of Haynesworth taking what Mann said and firing back at him. This would turn into the new Portis-LaVar feud. We don't need that as a distraction right now while we're installing two new system/schemes. I hope that he can shoulder this and turn it into a motivational tool to get his ass in gear. I'm worried that he'll let his ego get the best of him and make it another war of the words.

Mann can have his opinion, but I'd rather he be quiet on the subject until Haynesworth shows that he hasn't done anything this offseason.

See, I don't think any feud between those two would be a big deal at all. All teams deal with distractions. If we're going to be a good team, we'll need to learn to do so. Things like this can't unravel an entire year.

[NewCliche21]

To me, it's not that he has an opinion, and frankly, IMHO, a good one. I'm of the opinion that no matter what his opinion is, he keep it to himself (or tone it down a lot), especially at this point of the season and in the state that the Skins are in.

Calling out a player like Haynesworth (big ego) will do nothing but cause dissention among the ranks. We all know Big Al is going to respond, and I can easily see this turning into their own version of LaVar-Portis, which is going to be a distraction when we don't need any, what with learning new offensive and defensive schemes, and in the case of the defense, a whole new system.

Hopefully Haynesworth will leave it be, and give his response on the field in his performance, using what Mann said as motivation to wreak havoc this season. Judging by the past and how big a contract and ego he has, he won't.

This has the chance to turn real ugly real fast.

Oh, come on. Nothing's going to get ugly for Mann calling a spade a spade. Haynesworth hasn't said anything in response to much worse things by, well, everyone.

Living in Texas surrounded by all of these Cowboys fans has really opened my eyes to why there is such a bad aurra around the Redskins. A few minutes on the forum today shows me..

1. Many of our fans are ignorant.

2. Many of our fans are haters of our own players

It's sad to see. Why so many of you out there can't be like 99% of the normal rational football fans is beyond me and actually support your team and it's players. So many of you just support hating everyone in a Redskins uniform today and use our storied past as the measuring stick for current players. Instead of actually supporting players you rather support hating. I'm sorry if you feel as if I need to "calm down" but really it is you that needs to wise up and realize that your making other fans of the team look as dumb as you appear.

1) MAJOR props to you for representing us in enemy territory. I'm in a Philly area and it's bad; I can't imagine being in hell.

2) I question the use of the word "ignorant" and kind of chuckle at it.

3) Your hyperbole hurts your point. Redskins that I don't like: Deion Sanders, LaVar Arrington, Brian Mitchell, and Albert Haynesworth. How many of them have played for us in the past five years? I love the rest of our team. In fact, let's look at my username, avatar, and signature to see if I only like older players.

4) Funny that you say that we look dumb for not blindly following our team. Ironic.

Really don't care how you think I look. As a fan you support the team and it's players. You give them a chance to show you what they got and you listen to the coaches. They say he's coming in. He says he's not there and getting into shape. You have nothing to support any other opinion other then hate by running him down now. You suck up to old washed up people who have no business ripping on current players because they like you are haters. You identify with the love of hating Redskins and identify with anyone who also wants to hate on our current players. I am a fan first and as a fan I believe you support your team. If AH comes in fat and out of shape then I will reevaluate my opinion. Until that happens there is nothing to see here other then the same old posters just showing what they are, haters.

Yawn. You think that we're on a 4-12 team's messageboard because we're haters? Really? We have nothing on which to support our opinions? Really? Is he in camp? No? Okay then. I hate LaVar Arrington and Brian Mitchell who are the two who hate on our team the most. Thanks for the failed insult, though. It was good for a laugh.

Timmy Smith couldn't hold Clinton Portis's jersey and he was a Superbowl winning player to. Winning a superbowl has nothing to do with anything. I lived in DC during the 1980's and there wasn't this existance of hate towards our players like there is now. A ring doesn't make you a better player. A Superbowl doesn't mean you can speak on anything and be correct about it. Go sleep at a holiday inn and let me know if you still don't comprehend

Are you really comparing Timmy Smith, who was in jail for coke, to Charles Mann, who was nominated for the Hall of Fame? Brilliant.

And of course there wasn't the hate in the 1980's, because those players weren't punks like Haynesworth. Thanks for proving my point.

No I wouldn't, this is the only thing correct you've said here. I wouldn't say I disagreed with any current or former player that says that. Why? Because the message isn't one to cause discontent within the team. This message causes hate and discontent. There is ZERO proof of AH not being ready. Show it otherwise, otherwise continue to hate and show your a real "fan"

Because I don't follow blindly, I'm not a fan? I live and breathe this team, and you, to use your favorite word, only "hate" on its fans. I'm sure that Gibbs and Cooke would think the world of you.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

let's be honest for a moment. NFL players are not regular employees. Nor are NFL owners like the guy down the street that runs a hardware store.

90% of the Redskins (and a higher % that are under contract - remember McIntosh and Rogers are still restricted free agents) have attended the voluntary sessions with the new coaching staff because they understand more is expected of professionals who carry the privilege of playing in the NFL.

The coach is there. The assistant coaches are there.

If you exclude McIntosh and Rogers who are not signed yet, Haynesworth is one of the only players not to attend ANY of the sessions.

And he never gave Shanahan's offseason program a chance after complaining that Zorn's program didn't get him in shape to play the season.

So, I don't feel sorry for Albert. I don't feel he is being put under duress or being treated unfairly by the powers at be.

If some of you do, perhaps rather than saying those of us on the other side of this debate are projecting our 'hate' for AH maybe YOU should be looking INSIDE YOURSELVES about some latent resentments YOU may be carrying toward your own employers.

Perhaps some of you work jobs where you feel under the 'thumb' of a boss and secretly cheer when a guy like Haynesworth says 'UP YOURS' when Shanahan asks him to do something because you know you can't do the same thing

See, TWO can play at that game folks

But but but...you're just mad because AH is rich. Hater!

[NewCliche21]

let's be honest for a moment. NFL players are not regular employees. Nor are NFL owners like the guy down the street that runs a hardware store.

90% of the Redskins (and a higher % that are under contract - remember McIntosh and Rogers are still restricted free agents) have attended the voluntary sessions with the new coaching staff because they understand more is expected of professionals who carry the privilege of playing in the NFL.

The coach is there. The assistant coaches are there.

If you exclude McIntosh and Rogers who are not signed yet, Haynesworth is one of the only players not to attend ANY of the sessions.

And he never gave Shanahan's offseason program a chance after complaining that Zorn's program didn't get him in shape to play the season.

So, I don't feel sorry for Albert. I don't feel he is being put under duress or being treated unfairly by the powers at be.

If some of you do, perhaps rather than saying those of us on the other side of this debate are projecting our 'hate' for AH maybe YOU should be looking INSIDE YOURSELVES about some latent resentments YOU may be carrying toward your own employers.

Perhaps some of you work jobs where you feel under the 'thumb' of a boss and secretly cheer when a guy like Haynesworth says 'UP YOURS' when Shanahan asks him to do something because you know you can't do the same thing

See, TWO can play at that game folks

WRONG.

. . . both McIntosh AND Rogers have been at minicaps. The *ONLY* one not to be at anything is Haynesworth.

[bulldog]

look in the mirror grasshopper

[Ashburn Dave]

Really a non issue for me. Mann can say what he wants, but like others in the media, I think he's way off base without knowing the facts. Why doesn't he go to AH's house to see if he's working out or scarfing down donuts? In other words, he doesn't know anymore than any of us and needs to keep his opinions to himself.

The issue with AH is deeper than whether he's working out or not.

When you make that much money you are expected to lead and set a good example. Why should the other players show up for voluntary stuff if AH isn't going to? Why should they work hard and push themselves if he isn't there with them doing the same?

[#98QBKiller]

More fodder for the pigs. I can't wait until the season starts, this AH drama is getting old.

[bulldog]

Don't try to bring up the team concept issue, Ashburn Dave. That argument is lost on some of the folks here who still maintain (despite history to the contrary) that the NFL is just like the NBA and NHL where there are 5 guys on the court or ice at one time and the teams cater to the whims of the 'stars' and treat the other players as if they are easily replaceable.

The NBA approach doesn't work in the NFL.

The Super Bowl victories of teams like the Steelers over time would bear that out when compared to the 'name' teams the Redskins have put out there with current and potential hall of famers and former pro bowlers.

[jnhay]

Hopefully this won't turn into the LaVar-Portis level trash talk.

Mann gets a lot more respect from fans than Lavar. If there is some trash talk, I think everyone would automatically assume Mann is right and AH is wrong, so I don't see the point.

[bulldog]

Well, doesn't Mann's career and how he carries himself lend a bit more respect from people than Arrington?

Heck, I like Haynesworth more than I like Arrington.

[Hitman21ST]

Oh, come on. Nothing's going to get ugly for Mann calling a spade a spade. Haynesworth hasn't said anything in response to much worse things by, well, everyone.

I hope you're right NewCliche. I'm just worried that AH might get in the mindset that whenever anyone says something bad about him, it's an attack on him personally and he needs to respond. Just because Mann called a spade a spade (which I agree with your assessment on) doesn't mean AH is going to let it go under the bridge.

[Hitman21ST]

Mann gets a lot more respect from fans than Lavar. If there is some trash talk, I think everyone would automatically assume Mann is right and AH is wrong, so I don't see the point.

Not in the fan's eyes, but in AH's eyes. Just because we all think he's wrong doesn't necessarily mean he thinks he's wrong, and all someone needs to start something is thinking they're right and the other guy is wrong.

Well, doesn't Mann's career and how he carries himself lend a bit more respect from people than Arrington?

Heck, I like Haynesworth more than I like Arrington.

Agreed, but I'm just thinking what happens if AH doesn't give Mann the respect that he deserves.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Well, doesn't Mann's career and how he carries himself lend a bit more respect from people than Arrington?

Heck, I like Haynesworth more than I like Arrington.

Yep, I agree. This is much, much different to me. Hell, this is even different than when Riggins was bashing Snyder because Riggins, despite being an all-time great on the field, is viewed by many as a little nuts and flaky.

This is coming from someone who not only played at a championship level but was also epitomized being a team leader and classy, intelligent player. This (rightfully) carries a lot of weight.

[NewCliche21]

Mann gets a lot more respect from fans than Lavar. If there is some trash talk, I think everyone would automatically assume Mann is right and AH is wrong, so I don't see the point.

A lot of posters seem to be making ridiculous comparisons. Timmy Smith to Charles Mann, LaVar Arrington to Charles Mann, etc.

[wrecker]

Sorry Charlie. We don't want a tuna with good taste. We want a tuna that tastes good!

Nohomo.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

I hope you're right NewCliche. I'm just worried that AH might get in the mindset that whenever anyone says something bad about him, it's an attack on him personally and he needs to respond. Just because Mann called a spade a spade (which I agree with your assessment on) doesn't mean AH is going to let it go under the bridge.

But who cares if he doesn't let it go under the bridge? Play that scenario out and what's the worst-case outcome? So AH and CM aren't buddies...who cares? I don't see what the big downside is if this becomes a pissing contest (which I don't see happening).